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Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir

 
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Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 429
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:46 pm    Post subject: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir Reply with quote
Gary,
This was posted on the other list by a fellow Tiger owner. What do you think about what they told him?
Ned

FWIW, the ElectroAir installation instructions recommends against any permanent magnet light weight starter and specifies the SkyTek as incompatible with starting with their electronic ignition energized because of the high current draw. The later version is OK but I have the PM version. I just don't get to start with the electronic ignition energized. I kept the impulse mag so starts are just like always on the Left mag and turn on the electronic after startup.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:23 pm    Post subject: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir Reply with quote
There is a clever saying about telling someone not to do something that can't be done while he's doing it, but it slips my mind.
Let's ask Dean and Larry what they think. They both have light weight starters, one 24 volt, one 12 volt. I installed them both.
Unless the battery is dead or near dead, I can't think of a reason to worry about it. Come to think of it, if the battery is low and the ElectroAir is not putting out enough juice, the plane will still start just fine on the left mag if the engine cranks.
Gary
From: "923te(at)att.net" <923te(at)att.net>
To: "teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com" <teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 6:45 PM
Subject: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir


--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: 923te(at)att.net (923te(at)att.net)

Gary,
This was posted on the other list by a fellow Tiger owner. What do you think about what they told him?
Ned

FWIW, the ElectroAir installation instructions recommends against any permanent magnet light weight starter and specifies the SkyTek as incompatible with starting with their electronic ignition energized because of the high current draw. The later version is OK but I have the PM version. I just don't get to start with the electronic ignition energized. I kept the impulse mag so starts are just like always on the Left mag and turn on the electronic after startup.
www.aeroelectric.= * HomebuiltHELP

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dmwhite(at)e3ra.com
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:57 pm    Post subject: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir Reply with quote
Mine has been working fine for 8 months now.  I also have the Bogert cables so that helps with less voltage drop.  I don't really understand why that instruction is there.
Dean

From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Vogt
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 8:24 PM
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir

There is a clever saying about telling someone not to do something that can't be done while he's doing it, but it slips my mind.



Let's ask Dean and Larry what they think. They both have light weight starters, one 24 volt, one 12 volt. I installed them both.



Unless the battery is dead or near dead, I can't think of a reason to worry about it. Come to think of it, if the battery is low and the ElectroAir is not putting out enough juice, the plane will still start just fine on the left mag if the engine cranks.



Gary


From: "923te(at)att.net (923te(at)att.net)" <923te(at)att.net (923te(at)att.net)>
To: "teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)" <teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 6:45 PM
Subject: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: 923te(at)att.net (923te(at)att.net)

Gary,
This was posted on the other list by a fellow Tiger owner. What do you think about what they told him?
Ned

FWIW, the ElectroAir installation instructions recommends against any permanent magnet light weight starter and specifies the SkyTek as incompatible with starting with their electronic ignition energized because of the high current draw. The later version is OK but I have the PM version. I just don't get to start with the electronic ignition energized. I kept the impulse mag so starts are just like always on the Left mag and turn on the electronic after startup.
www.aeroelectric.= * HomebuiltHELP [url=http://www.hp;%20 %20 %20 %20 %20 %20 %20 %20-Matt%20Dralle,%20List========================%3cbr%3e%3cbr%3e%3cbr%3e%3cbr%3e%3cbr%3e%3cbr%3e%20%3c/div%3e%20%3c/div%3e%20%20%3c/div%3e%3cpre%3e%3cb%3e%3cfont%20size=2%20color=000000]http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.mhttp://forums.matronics.com[/url] ===========

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boxereighty(at)AOL.COM
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:50 am    Post subject: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir Reply with quote
FWIW, the ElectroAir installation instructions recommends against any
permanent magnet light weight starter and specifies the SkyTek as
incompatible with starting with their electronic ignition energized because
of the high current draw. The later version is OK but I have the PM version

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Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 429
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:48 am    Post subject: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir Reply with quote
All I can say is that the LASAR made starting my Tiger very very quick. The Tiger came from the factory with the Skytec PM starter. It almost always starts on the first of three blades passing my view, that is immediately. If I turn the LASAR off then it starts like it used to within a couple revolutions. Point is, the electronic ignition makes for much less wear and battery drain on starting so why not use it?
The Powerflow guys said their exhaust was not compatible with the LASAR, that they had negative feed back from the field that this was based on. I told them at the time, about 4 years ago, that I had been flying it that way for about 4 years with no problems.
I think sometimes these small companies take the easy way out for liability and ease of use reasons.

On Dec 22, 2012, at 9:50 AM, boxereighty(at)AOL.COM (boxereighty(at)AOL.COM) wrote:



FWIW, the ElectroAir installation instructions recommends against any
permanent magnet light weight starter and specifies the SkyTek as
incompatible with starting with their electronic ignition energized because
of the high current draw. The later version is OK but I have the PM version.
I just don't get to start with the electronic ignition energized. I kept the
impulse mag so starts are just like always.

________


There is a clever saying about telling someone not to do something that
can't be done while he's doing it, but it slips my mind.

Let's ask Dean and Larry what they think. They both have light weight
starters, one 24 volt, one 12 volt. I installed them both.

Unless the battery is dead or near dead, I can't think of a reason to worry
about it. Come to think of it, if the battery is low and the ElectroAir is
not putting out enough juice, the plane will still start just fine on the
left mag if the engine cranks.

Gary

________


I'm the one who posted the info on PM SkyTek incompatibility. Someone on the GG wanted advice on which SkyTek starter to chose. This wasn't "told" to me by Electroair personnel, it is found on page 1.5 of the FAA installation manual, revision 7, dated Nov 2012 and is available right now on the ElectroAir website under "Tech Support". This same warning was also in revision 5 dated April 2012 pg 1.4 and this is the version of the manual that came with my unit. The reason for the caveats about the PM starters in ElectroAir installations are very clearly spelled out in that text and should be familiar to anyone having an ElectroAir ignition installed on a Tiger. I have one of the PM starters and I'm not about to replace it but I stand forewarned of the effects of the PM starter/ElectroAir combination if my battery is the least bit low. Forewarned is forearmed. However, if I were replacing one of the OEM "boat anchor" starters today I would chose the non-PM version SkyTek offers and that is what prompted my comment on GG to the guy wanting advice on which to purchase.

Other than changing my starter cable to higher gauge and simply starting as I have for 18 years on the left impulsed coupled mag I haven't had any real problems/changes with my current PM starter ElectroAir combo. Starting the two Tigers I've owned since 1988 has never been a problem whether hot or cold, hand propping or starter assisted (OEM or SkyTek). Improved starting capability was simply NOT the reason I paid for the ElectroAir unit installation to begin with. However a complete knowledge of how these STC's interact is important for the pilot on the line and good to know for those in the market for a new starter.

Brent Smith
N28386/1N1

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matronics.com/contribution
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:48 am    Post subject: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir Reply with quote
Thanks for writing Brent.
The first plane I did was a 77 Tiger with the PM starter. I was amazed how easily it started on both mags. Like starting a car. The only problem we encountered was not using a separate switch to turn the ignition on or off. Dean and I talked about installing two separate mag switches like on a Citabria. He may have already done that.
It's a neat system. I just wish they had incorporated the manifold pressure unit into the main unit. Save a bunch of wiring.
Gary
From: "boxereighty(at)AOL.COM" <boxereighty(at)AOL.COM>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 7:50 AM
Subject: Re: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir




FWIW, the ElectroAir installation instructions recommends against any
permanent magnet light weight starter and specifies the SkyTek as
incompatible with starting with their electronic ignition energized because
of the high current draw. The later version is OK but I have the PM version.
I just don't get to start with the electronic ignition energized. I kept the
impulse mag so starts are just like always.

________


There is a clever saying about telling someone not to do something that
can't be done while he's doing it, but it slips my mind.

Let's ask Dean and Larry what they think. They both have light weight
starters, one 24 volt, one 12 volt. I installed them both.

Unless the battery is dead or near dead, I can't think of a reason to worry
about it. Come to think of it, if the battery is low and the ElectroAir is
not putting out enough juice, the plane will still start just fine on the
left mag if the engine cranks.

Gary

________


I'm the one who posted the info on PM SkyTek incompatibility. Someone on the GG wanted advice on which SkyTek starter to chose. This wasn't "told" to me by Electroair personnel, it is found on page 1.5 of the FAA installation manual, revision 7, dated Nov 2012 and is available right now on the ElectroAir website under "Tech Support". This same warning was also in revision 5 dated April 2012 pg 1.4 and this is the version of the manual that came with my unit. The reason for the caveats about the PM starters in ElectroAir installations are very clearly spelled out in that text and should be familiar to anyone having an ElectroAir ignition installed on a Tiger. I have one of the PM starters and I'm not about to replace it but I stand forewarned of the effects of the PM starter/ElectroAir combination if my battery is the least bit low. Forewarned is forearmed. However, if I were replacing one of the OEM "boat anchor" starters today I would chose the non-PM version SkyTek offers and that is what prompted my comment on GG to the guy wanting advice on which to purchase.

Other than changing my starter cable to higher gauge and simply starting as I have for 18 years on the left impulsed coupled mag I haven't had any real problems/changes with my current PM starter ElectroAir combo. Starting the two Tigers I've owned since 1988 has never been a problem whether hot or cold, hand propping or starter assisted (OEM or SkyTek). Improved starting capability was simply NOT the reason I paid for the ElectroAir unit installation to begin with. However a complete knowledge of how these STC's interact is important for the pilot on the line and good to know for those in the market for a new starter.

Brent Smith
N28386/1N1

Quote:
www.aeroelectric.c_blank" href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com
-======================================





[quote][b]

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:52 am    Post subject: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir Reply with quote
Oh, and I would like the EA ignition to have a usable RPM signal.
From: "boxereighty(at)AOL.COM" <boxereighty(at)AOL.COM>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 7:50 AM
Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir




FWIW, the ElectroAir installation instructions recommends against any
permanent magnet light weight starter and specifies the SkyTek as
incompatible with starting with their electronic ignition energized because
of the high current draw. The later version is OK but I have the PM version.
I just don't get to start with the electronic ignition energized. I kept the
impulse mag so starts are just like always.

________


There is a clever saying about telling someone not to do something that
can't be done while he's doing it, but it slips my mind.

Let's ask Dean and Larry what they think. They both have light weight
starters, one 24 volt, one 12 volt. I installed them both.

Unless the battery is dead or near dead, I can't think of a reason to worry
about it. Come to think of it, if the battery is low and the ElectroAir is
not putting out enough juice, the plane will still start just fine on the
left mag if the engine cranks.

Gary

________


I'm the one who posted the info on PM SkyTek incompatibility. Someone on the GG wanted advice on which SkyTek starter to chose. This wasn't "told" to me by Electroair personnel, it is found on page 1.5 of the FAA installation manual, revision 7, dated Nov 2012 and is available right now on the ElectroAir website under "Tech Support". This same warning was also in revision 5 dated April 2012 pg 1.4 and this is the version of the manual that came with my unit. The reason for the caveats about the PM starters in ElectroAir installations are very clearly spelled out in that text and should be familiar to anyone having an ElectroAir ignition installed on a Tiger. I have one of the PM starters and I'm not about to replace it but I stand forewarned of the effects of the PM starter/ElectroAir combination if my battery is the least bit low. Forewarned is forearmed. However, if I were replacing one of the OEM "boat anchor" starters today I would chose the non-PM version SkyTek offers and that is what prompted my comment on GG to the guy wanting advice on which to purchase.

Other than changing my starter cable to higher gauge and simply starting as I have for 18 years on the left impulsed coupled mag I haven't had any real problems/changes with my current PM starter ElectroAir combo. Starting the two Tigers I've owned since 1988 has never been a problem whether hot or cold, hand propping or starter assisted (OEM or SkyTek). Improved starting capability was simply NOT the reason I paid for the ElectroAir unit installation to begin with. However a complete knowledge of how these STC's interact is important for the pilot on the line and good to know for those in the market for a new starter.

Brent Smith
N28386/1N1

Quote:
wwwlow" target="_blank" href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersb===================





[quote][b]

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Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 429
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:32 am    Post subject: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir Reply with quote
Is this it?


“People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”
― George Bernard Shaw

From
http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/5217.George_Bernard_Shaw
Or from Old Chinese Proverb according to:
http://paws.kettering.edu/~jhuggins/humor/quotes.html
On Dec 21, 2012, at 10:23 PM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

There is a clever saying about telling someone not to do something that can't be done while he's doing it, but it slips my mind.
Let's ask Dean and Larry what they think. They both have light weight starters, one 24 volt, one 12 volt. I installed them both.
Unless the battery is dead or near dead, I can't think of a reason to worry about it. Come to think of it, if the battery is low and the ElectroAir is not putting out enough juice, the plane will still start just fine on the left mag if the engine cranks.
Gary
From: "923te(at)att.net (923te(at)att.net)" <923te(at)att.net (923te(at)att.net)>
To: "teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)" <teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 6:45 PM
Subject: TeamGrumman-List: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir


--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: 923te(at)att.net (923te(at)att.net)

Gary,
This was posted on the other list by a fellow Tiger owner. What do you think about what they told him?
Ned

FWIW, the ElectroAir installation instructions recommends against any permanent magnet light weight starter and specifies the SkyTek as incompatible with starting with their electronic ignition energized because of the high current draw. The later version is OK but I have the PM version. I just don't get to start with the electronic ignition energized. I kept the impulse mag so starts are just like always on the Left mag and turn on the electronic after startup.
www.aeroelectric.= * HomebuiltHELP [url=http://www.hp;   -Matt Dralle, List ========================<br><br><br><br><br><br> </div> </div> </div> <pre><b><font size=2 color=] =================================== oelectric.com[/url] >www.buildersbooks.com uilthelp.com matronics.com/contribution =================================== t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List =================================== cs.com ===================================

[quote][b]

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dmwhite(at)e3ra.com
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:36 pm    Post subject: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir Reply with quote
I am still working on this with Mike K at Electroair.

From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Vogt
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 10:52 AM
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir

Oh, and I would like the EA ignition to have a usable RPM signal.


From: "boxereighty(at)AOL.COM (boxereighty(at)AOL.COM)" <boxereighty(at)AOL.COM (boxereighty(at)AOL.COM)>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 7:50 AM
Subject: Re: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir




FWIW, the ElectroAir installation instructions recommends against any
permanent magnet light weight starter and specifies the SkyTek as
incompatible with starting with their electronic ignition energized because
of the high current draw. The later version is OK but I have the PM version.
I just don't get to start with the electronic ignition energized. I kept the
impulse mag so starts are just like always.

________
There is a clever saying about telling someone not to do something that
can't be done while he's doing it, but it slips my mind.

Let's ask Dean and Larry what they think. They both have light weight
starters, one 24 volt, one 12 volt. I installed them both.

Unless the battery is dead or near dead, I can't think of a reason to worry
about it. Come to think of it, if the battery is low and the ElectroAir is
not putting out enough juice, the plane will still start just fine on the
left mag if the engine cranks.

Gary

________
I'm the one who posted the info on PM SkyTek incompatibility. Someone on the GG wanted advice on which SkyTek starter to chose. This wasn't "told" to me by Electroair personnel, it is found on page 1.5 of the FAA installation manual, revision 7, dated Nov 2012 and is available right now on the ElectroAir website under "Tech Support". This same warning was also in revision 5 dated April 2012 pg 1.4 and this is the version of the manual that came with my unit. The reason for the caveats about the PM starters in ElectroAir installations are very clearly spelled out in that text and should be familiar to anyone having an ElectroAir ignition installed on a Tiger. I have one of the PM starters and I'm not about to replace it but I stand forewarned of the effects of the PM starter/ElectroAir combination if my battery is the least bit low. Forewarned is forearmed. However, if I were replacing one of the OEM "boat anchor" starters today I would chose the non-PM version SkyTek offers and that is what prompted my comment on GG to the guy wanting advice on which to purchase.

Other than changing my starter cable to higher gauge and simply starting as I have for 18 years on the left impulsed coupled mag I haven't had any real problems/changes with my current PM starter ElectroAir combo. Starting the two Tigers I've owned since 1988 has never been a problem whether hot or cold, hand propping or starter assisted (OEM or SkyTek). Improved starting capability was simply NOT the reason I paid for the ElectroAir unit installation to begin with. However a complete knowledge of how these STC's interact is important for the pilot on the line and good to know for those in the market for a new starter.

Brent Smith
N28386/1N1
Quote:
wwwlow" target="_blank" href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersb===================



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[quote][b]

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Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 429
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:14 pm    Post subject: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir Reply with quote
I had to change to a Electronics International Tach for the LASAR. EI modifies their tach to pick up the signal put out by the LASAR
Maybe theirs would work with the EA?

On Dec 22, 2012, at 6:35 PM, "Dean White" <dmwhite(at)e3ra.com (dmwhite(at)e3ra.com)> wrote:

v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} <![endif]--> <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
I am still working on this with Mike K at Electroair.

From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Vogt
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 10:52 AM
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir
 
Oh, and I would like the EA ignition to have a usable RPM signal.


From: "boxereighty(at)AOL.COM (boxereighty(at)AOL.COM)" <boxereighty(at)AOL.COM (boxereighty(at)AOL.COM)>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 7:50 AM
Subject: Re: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir




FWIW, the ElectroAir installation instructions recommends against any
permanent magnet light weight starter and specifies the SkyTek as
incompatible with starting with their electronic ignition energized because
of the high current draw. The later version is OK but I have the PM version.
I just don't get to start with the electronic ignition energized. I kept the
impulse mag so starts are just like always.

________
There is a clever saying about telling someone not to do something that
can't be done while he's doing it, but it slips my mind.

Let's ask Dean and Larry what they think. They both have light weight
starters, one 24 volt, one 12 volt. I installed them both.

Unless the battery is dead or near dead, I can't think of a reason to worry
about it. Come to think of it, if the battery is low and the ElectroAir is
not putting out enough juice, the plane will still start just fine on the
left mag if the engine cranks.

Gary

________
I'm the one who posted the info on PM SkyTek incompatibility. Someone on the GG wanted advice on which SkyTek starter to chose. This wasn't "told" to me by Electroair personnel, it is found on page 1.5 of the FAA installation manual, revision 7, dated Nov 2012 and is available right now on the ElectroAir website under "Tech Support". This same warning was also in revision 5 dated April 2012 pg 1.4 and this is the version of the manual that came with my unit. The reason for the caveats about the PM starters in ElectroAir installations are very clearly spelled out in that text and should be familiar to anyone having an ElectroAir ignition installed on a Tiger. I have one of the PM starters and I'm not about to replace it but I stand forewarned of the effects of the PM starter/ElectroAir combination if my battery is the least bit low. Forewarned is forearmed. However, if I were replacing one of the OEM "boat anchor" starters today I would chose the non-PM version SkyTek offers and that is what prompted my comment on GG to the guy wanting advice on which to purchase.

Other than changing my starter cable to higher gauge and simply starting as I have for 18 years on the left impulsed coupled mag I haven't had any real problems/changes with my current PM starter ElectroAir combo. Starting the two Tigers I've owned since 1988 has never been a problem whether hot or cold, hand propping or starter assisted (OEM or SkyTek). Improved starting capability was simply NOT the reason I paid for the ElectroAir unit installation to begin with. However a complete knowledge of how these STC's interact is important for the pilot on the line and good to know for those in the market for a new starter.

Brent Smith
N28386/1N1
Quote:
wwwlow" target="_blank" href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersb===================



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dmwhite(at)e3ra.com
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:19 pm    Post subject: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir Reply with quote
The stock Electroair unit puts out a square wave that many electronic tachs can process. However, the Horizon P1000 is looking for the induced spike on the P-lead.  So we are looking at modifying the output from the Electroair to mimic the induced spike.  I don't think that it is a super high priority for Mike but hopefully one that will get done soon.  Unfortunately, the Horizon guys have been unwilling to tell us the amplitude and duration of the spike their unit needs to trigger the RPM count.

From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of 923TE
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 5:15 PM
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir

I had to change to a Electronics International Tach for the LASAR. EI modifies their tach to pick up the signal put out by the LASAR

Maybe theirs would work with the EA?
On Dec 22, 2012, at 6:35 PM, "Dean White" <dmwhite(at)e3ra.com (dmwhite(at)e3ra.com)> wrote:

I am still working on this with Mike K at Electroair.

From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Gary Vogt
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 10:52 AM
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir

Oh, and I would like the EA ignition to have a usable RPM signal.


From: "boxereighty(at)AOL.COM (boxereighty(at)AOL.COM)" <boxereighty(at)AOL.COM (boxereighty(at)AOL.COM)>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 7:50 AM
Subject: Re: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir

 

FWIW, the ElectroAir installation instructions recommends against any
permanent magnet light weight starter and specifies the SkyTek as
incompatible with starting with their electronic ignition energized because
of the high current draw. The later version is OK but I have the PM version.
I just don't get to start with the electronic ignition energized. I kept the
impulse mag so starts are just like always.

________
There is a clever saying about telling someone not to do something that
can't be done while he's doing it, but it slips my mind.

Let's ask Dean and Larry what they think. They both have light weight
starters, one 24 volt, one 12 volt. I installed them both.

Unless the battery is dead or near dead, I can't think of a reason to worry
about it. Come to think of it, if the battery is low and the ElectroAir is
not putting out enough juice, the plane will still start just fine on the
left mag if the engine cranks.

Gary

________
I'm the one who posted the info on PM SkyTek incompatibility. Someone on the GG wanted advice on which SkyTek starter to chose. This wasn't "told" to me by Electroair personnel, it is found on page 1.5 of the FAA installation manual, revision 7, dated Nov 2012 and is available right now on the ElectroAir website under "Tech Support". This same warning was also in revision 5 dated April 2012 pg 1.4 and this is the version of the manual that came with my unit. The reason for the caveats about the PM starters in ElectroAir installations are very clearly spelled out in that text and should be familiar to anyone having an ElectroAir ignition installed on a Tiger. I have one of the PM starters and I'm not about to replace it but I stand forewarned of the effects of the PM starter/ElectroAir combination if my battery is the least bit low. Forewarned is forearmed. However, if I were replacing one of the OEM "boat anchor" starters today I would chose the non-PM version SkyTek offers and that is what prompted my comment on GG to the guy wanting advice on which to purchase.

Other than changing my starter cable to higher gauge and simply starting as I have for 18 years on the left impulsed coupled mag I haven't had any real problems/changes with my current PM starter ElectroAir combo. Starting the two Tigers I've owned since 1988 has never been a problem whether hot or cold, hand propping or starter assisted (OEM or SkyTek). Improved starting capability was simply NOT the reason I paid for the ElectroAir unit installation to begin with. However a complete knowledge of how these STC's interact is important for the pilot on the line and good to know for those in the market for a new starter.

Brent Smith
N28386/1N1
Quote:
wwwlow" target="_blank" href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersb===================



Quote:
www.aeroelectric.comwww.buildersbooks.comwww.homebuilthelp.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
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Discover



Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 429
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:26 am    Post subject: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir Reply with quote
If Mike can accomplish it and package it as a separate box I'd buy one and puty Horizon tach back in

On Dec 22, 2012, at 8:19 PM, "Dean White" <dmwhite(at)e3ra.com (dmwhite(at)e3ra.com)> wrote:
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} <![endif]--> <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
The stock Electroair unit puts out a square wave that many electronic tachs can process. However, the Horizon P1000 is looking for the induced spike on the P-lead. So we are looking at modifying the output from the Electroair to mimic the induced spike. I don't think that it is a super high priority for Mike but hopefully one that will get done soon. Unfortunately, the Horizon guys have been unwilling to tell us the amplitude and duration of the spike their unit needs to trigger the RPM count.

From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of 923TE
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 5:15 PM
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir

I had to change to a Electronics International Tach for the LASAR. EI modifies their tach to pick up the signal put out by the LASAR

Maybe theirs would work with the EA?
On Dec 22, 2012, at 6:35 PM, "Dean White" <dmwhite(at)e3ra.com (dmwhite(at)e3ra.com)> wrote:

I am still working on this with Mike K at Electroair.
 
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Gary Vogt
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 10:52 AM
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir

Oh, and I would like the EA ignition to have a usable RPM signal.


From: "boxereighty(at)AOL.COM (boxereighty(at)AOL.COM)" <boxereighty(at)AOL.COM (boxereighty(at)AOL.COM)>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 7:50 AM
Subject: Re: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir



FWIW, the ElectroAir installation instructions recommends against any
permanent magnet light weight starter and specifies the SkyTek as
incompatible with starting with their electronic ignition energized because
of the high current draw. The later version is OK but I have the PM version.
I just don't get to start with the electronic ignition energized. I kept the
impulse mag so starts are just like always.

________
There is a clever saying about telling someone not to do something that
can't be done while he's doing it, but it slips my mind.

Let's ask Dean and Larry what they think. They both have light weight
starters, one 24 volt, one 12 volt. I installed them both.

Unless the battery is dead or near dead, I can't think of a reason to worry
about it. Come to think of it, if the battery is low and the ElectroAir is
not putting out enough juice, the plane will still start just fine on the
left mag if the engine cranks.

Gary

________
I'm the one who posted the info on PM SkyTek incompatibility. Someone on the GG wanted advice on which SkyTek starter to chose. This wasn't "told" to me by Electroair personnel, it is found on page 1.5 of the FAA installation manual, revision 7, dated Nov 2012 and is available right now on the ElectroAir website under "Tech Support". This same warning was also in revision 5 dated April 2012 pg 1.4 and this is the version of the manual that came with my unit. The reason for the caveats about the PM starters in ElectroAir installations are very clearly spelled out in that text and should be familiar to anyone having an ElectroAir ignition installed on a Tiger. I have one of the PM starters and I'm not about to replace it but I stand forewarned of the effects of the PM starter/ElectroAir combination if my battery is the least bit low. Forewarned is forearmed. However, if I were replacing one of the OEM "boat anchor" starters today I would chose the non-PM version SkyTek offers and that is what prompted my comment on GG to the guy wanting advice on which to purchase.

Other than changing my starter cable to higher gauge and simply starting as I have for 18 years on the left impulsed coupled mag I haven't had any real problems/changes with my current PM starter ElectroAir combo. Starting the two Tigers I've owned since 1988 has never been a problem whether hot or cold, hand propping or starter assisted (OEM or SkyTek). Improved starting capability was simply NOT the reason I paid for the ElectroAir unit installation to begin with. However a complete knowledge of how these STC's interact is important for the pilot on the line and good to know for those in the market for a new starter.

Brent Smith
N28386/1N1
Quote:
wwwlow" target="_blank" href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersb===================



Quote:
www.aeroelectric.comwww.buildersbooks.comwww.homebuilthelp.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
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teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
Guest
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:32 pm    Post subject: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir Reply with quote
That's the quote.  I knew it went something like that.
From: 923TE <923te(at)att.net>
To: "teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com" <teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir


Is this it?


“People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”
― George Bernard Shaw

From
http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/5217.George_Bernard_Shaw
Or from Old Chinese Proverb according to:
http://paws.kettering.edu/~jhuggins/humor/quotes.html
On Dec 21, 2012, at 10:23 PM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

There is a clever saying about telling someone not to do something that can't be done while he's doing it, but it slips my mind.
Let's ask Dean and Larry what they think. They both have light weight starters, one 24 volt, one 12 volt. I installed them both.
Unless the battery is dead or near dead, I can't think of a reason to worry about it. Come to think of it, if the battery is low and the ElectroAir is not putting out enough juice, the plane will still start just fine on the left mag if the engine cranks.
Gary
From: "923te(at)att.net (923te(at)att.net)" <923te(at)att.net (923te(at)att.net)>
To: "teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)" <teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)>
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 6:45 PM
Subject: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir


--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: 923te(at)att.net (923te(at)att.net)

Gary,
This was posted on the other list by a fellow Tiger owner. What do you think about what they told him?
Ned

FWIW, the ElectroAir installation instructions recommends against any permanent magnet light weight starter and specifies the SkyTek as incompatible with starting with their electronic ignition energized because of the high current draw. The later version is OK but I have the PM version. I just don't get to start with the electronic ignition energized. I kept the impulse mag so starts are just like always on the Left mag and turn on the electronic after startup.
www.aeroelectric.= * HomebuiltHELP [url=http:/div%3E%20%3C/div%3E%20%20%3C/div%3E%3Cpre%3E%3Cb%3E%3Cfont%20size=2%20color=] =================================== oelectric.com[/url] >www.buildersbooks.com uilthelp.com matronics.com/contribution ========== t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List =================================== cs.com ===================================

[quote]www.aeroelectric.com[b]

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BARRY CHECK 6



Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:48 pm    Post subject: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir Reply with quote
Ned:

I missed that posting - I don't see why the PM starter would cause any problems.  It may draw more current during start up.  The other starters range from 1.6 to 4 bHP.  That is from 108.5 to 135.63 Amps. But, the electronic ignition only requires 1 or 2 Amps Max.  And that is nothing when compared to the current draw of a starter.  Les posts 2.4 bHP for a starter at 11 VDC. That equates to 162.76 Amps.  So 1 or 2 Amps to run the ignition system is nothing in comparison. Starting with your rotating beacon on draws that much.


Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
===========
On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 9:45 PM, <923te(at)att.net (923te(at)att.net)> wrote:
Quote:
--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: 923te(at)att.net (923te(at)att.net)

Gary,
This was posted on the other list by a fellow Tiger owner. What do you think about what they told him?
Ned

FWIW, the ElectroAir installation instructions recommends against any permanent magnet light weight starter and specifies the SkyTek as incompatible with starting with their electronic ignition energized because of the high current draw. The later version is OK but I have the PM version. I just don't get to start with the electronic ignition energized. I kept the impulse mag so starts are just like always on the Left mag and turn on the electronic after startup.



 
[quote][b]

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BARRY CHECK 6



Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:59 pm    Post subject: Incompatibility of Skytec PM with ElectroAir Reply with quote
Ned:

I am catching up on my reading... I have been off-line for 5 days.  I see it is not a current draw that is the issue with the electronic ignition.  Well, not in a current sense.  As Les points out it is the drop in buss voltage which causes the electronic ignition to go crazy.  


Barry
==================================

On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 9:45 PM, <923te(at)att.net (923te(at)att.net)> wrote:
[quote]--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: 923te(at)att.net (923te(at)att.net)

Gary,
This was posted on the other list by a fellow Tiger owner. What do you think about what they told him?
Ned

FWIW, the ElectroAir installation instructions recommends against any permanent magnet light weight starter and specifies the SkyTek as incompatible with starting with their electronic ignition energized because of the high current draw. The later version is OK but I have the PM version. I just don't get to start with the electronic ignition energized. I kept the impulse mag so starts are just like always on the Left mag and turn on the electronic after startup.



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