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Water in Gasoline

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Ed Anderson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 475

Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:42 pm Post subject: Water in Gasoline

Found this reference concerning potential adverse effects  of water in gasoline on the Engine list and thought it might be of interest to  some of you.  This e mails is also to test and see whether we can  now post attachments to the list.  If you don't see an attachment then  you know the answer {:>).  In that case, the article can be found  at:

  

 [url=http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/fuels/rfg/waterphs.pdf#search=\'water%20phase%20separation]http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/fuels/rfg/waterphs.pdf#search='water%20phase%20separation[/url]

  

 Ed

  

 Ed Anderson

Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered

Matthews,  NC

eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com (eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com)

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_________________
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com

Steve Glasgow

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 674

Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:54 pm Post subject: Water in Gasoline

Very interesting.  I'm sticking to av gas.

  

 Cappy

 [quote]   ---

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Steve Glasgow-Cappy
Cappy's Toy
RV-8 N123SG

sportav8r(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:43 pm Post subject: Water in Gasoline

Let's see if I understand this: oxygenated fuels, especially those containing alcohols are more water-tolerant than straight gasoline,  avgas is straight gasoline, mogas may or may not contain alcohol but is always oxygenated by the addition of something, so avgas is least tolerant of water, fouls plugs and costs 50% more... yep, I'm sticking to avgas, too.  Why save all that money and gain additional water-tolerance safety margin as well?  Who'd want to do that?

  

 Not.

  

 -Stormy

  

 Cappy, just add Prist if it makes you feel better 

 

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Mark Phillips in TN

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 431
Location: Columbia, TN

Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 6:30 pm Post subject: Water in Gasoline

In a message dated 06/07/2006 8:44:31 PM Central Daylight Time, sportav8r(at)aol.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Why save all that money and gain additional water-tolerance safety margin as well?  Who'd want to do that? 	


 >>

 Aw, c'mon, stormy- it's an AVIATION thing- yer $'posed to $pend more- and be$ides, $omebody'$ gotta pay for all tho$e fat bonu$u$ and $everence/retirement package$ tho$e fuel mogul$ "earned"! 

  

 (but seariously now...)

  

 Mojo ran on pure, unadulterated mogas from the local Kroger (remember the $.03 discount?) until her first September (80 hrs?) when I gave another builder his first ride in my plane.  Three seconds into the takeoff roll and the engine went from a roar to a whimper.  BH is cool and we taxi back.  Multiple retries on the ramp with same result.  Added 10 gallons 100LL to left tank with no change.  Then cowl yanked, flow to carb checked, then taken apart til I was holding a perfectly Marvelous and Sheblerious float in my hand.  No obvious squawks.  Re-assembly and all is perfect again.  Got her back to new home at SYI under cover of dark from 11.5K' and investigation started.  Theory is that gas distributor is switching from summer to winter blends and someone screwed up the mix.  Vapor pressure wrong BIG time and fuel boiling in bowl or main jet.  Until convinced otherwise, I'm stickin' to this story.

  

 Just because I am adverse to puckerfakter, nowadays one tank carries the blue stuff and the other still gets the cruisin' Kroger, sans discount  8-(  and t/o & landings always on blue tank.  No problems since.  Don't know if Kroger is better now, and don't wanna find out.

  

 Oh yeah- a few tiny droplets of aitch-too-oh in Kroger tank occasionally, easily removed at sumptime.  No gascolator and nothing but runs & hits (no errors) since.  But be advised- No Kroger EVER goes into Mojo without passing the superfunnel test!  See:

  

 http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=1419/index.html

  

 Another of those BE$T DOLLAR$ $PENT thangs....

  

 Mark Phillips N51PW E3D, 150hp fire-breathing Lycosoar, too broke buying mogas to get a vapor tester.................

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From The PossumWorks...

sportav8r(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 6:41 pm Post subject: Water in Gasoline

I've had  occasional hard starts and stumbles from vapor lock, but only when doing a quick-turn at high altitude airports (always when I stop to pee at KHSP, 3760 MSL).  Never at any other time, and yes, only on mogas.  Never found any water in tanks beyond 1-2 drops after washing the plane.  Now with new Andair locking gas caps, even that is gone.  No gascolator.

  

 I did the yellow gas-blue gas switcheroo thing for years, until long experience raised my comfort level to the point I just quit buying avgas except on the road (airport mogas is never hi-test 

  

 I do try to inventory-load as much mogas during the summer as I can for winter use, but not sure it makes much practical difference in the blends we see around here.

  

 -Stormy

 

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flyguy

Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 325

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:11 am Post subject: Water in Gasoline

Stormy dude..adding my 2 cents worth from the peanut

gallery.  Had a vapor lock yrs. ago on 100LL in a

turbo Arrow. Especially suseptable if you made a stop

on x-c trip on hot days as fuel lines cook while

sitting, so its not only mogas.  also, suggest you

limit mogas storage to 6 mos. max as it turns to

varnish if it sits too long.  our gas supplier friends

turn it over so fast it never matters. 

RenoRed.(formerly)



--- sportav8r(at)aol.com wrote:



[quote] I've had  occasional hard starts and stumbles from

 vapor lock, but only when doing a quick-turn at high

 altitude airports (always when I stop to pee at

 KHSP, 3760 MSL).  Never at any other time, and yes,

 only on mogas.  Never found any water in tanks

 beyond 1-2 drops after washing the plane.  Now with

 new Andair locking gas caps, even that is gone.  No

 gascolator.

  

 I did the yellow gas-blue gas switcheroo thing for

 years, until long experience raised my comfort level

 to the point I just quit buying avgas except on the

 road (airport mogas is never hi-test 

  

 I do try to inventory-load as much mogas during the

 summer as I can for winter use, but not sure it

 makes much practical difference in the blends we see

 around here.

  

 -Stormy

  

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sportav8r(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:53 am Post subject: Water in Gasoline

Reno-

  

 I think the longest I've ever kept gas in storage is about 9 months, at least for airplane use.  I've stored lawnmower gas so long it did indeed go visibly and functionally "bad." After 9 months in my hangar tanks, the mogas looked fine and indeed performed flawlessly in the plane, but what can I really tell just by looking at the stuff?  Not much.  I agree it's a gamble to exceed 6 months, as you and others have suggested.  There's no way to tell its voilatility, antiknock properties or even its closeness to gum formation by just eyeballing it following 9 months in storage, that I know of.  

  

 -Stormy

 

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flyguy

Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 325

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:20 am Post subject: Water in Gasoline

just add some every month or so and it stays 'fresher'

like the oil companies do.  you can't see it convert

to varnish, but its happening.



--- sportav8r(at)aol.com wrote:



[quote] Reno-

  

 I think the longest I've ever kept gas in storage is

 about 9 months, at least for airplane use.  I've

 stored lawnmower gas so long it did indeed go

 visibly and functionally "bad." After 9 months in my

 hangar tanks, the mogas looked fine and indeed

 performed flawlessly in the plane, but what can I

 really tell just by looking at the stuff?  Not much.

  I agree it's a gamble to exceed 6 months, as you

 and others have suggested.  There's no way to tell

 its voilatility, antiknock properties or even its

 closeness to gum formation by just eyeballing it

 following 9 months in storage, that I know of.  

  

 -Stormy

  

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bill(at)repucci.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 1:45 pm Post subject: Water in Gasoline

Some years ago either the EAA's or AOPA's publication had a very good

article on avfuel vs. mogas.  The biggest takeaway was that avfuel has a

shelf life of 2 years while mogas is good for one year.



Thus I no longer "winterize" my lawnmower or other equipment and haven't

had any issues with them.



Just another $.02 worth.

Bill

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