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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
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 Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:24 am Post subject: Daily Mail report of father and daughter fatality |
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The fact that the wreckage seems to be all together would
argue against a mid air structural failure. Very sad
indeed. David Joyce. G-XSDJ
On Fri, 23 Aug 2013 09:07:01 -0700
"Alan Carter" <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
<alancarteresq(at)onetel.net>
Hello All.
The crash occurred a couple of days ago, the aircraft
is,
G-GBXS, Mono, 914, crashed killing two on board about
300 to 500 m short of runway.
Built in 1998. look like an Ex Europa Demonstrator, see
photo in G info.
It is really sad, the brother was watching the plane
when it crashed.
>From the photo, my guess only, it looks like a stall or
>spin impacted ,
or Structural failure as the plane looks like it hit the
ground hard and flat.
We will have to wait for the inspection to get the
answer.
Anyway it is tragic misfortune for the family.
Regards.
Alan
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Alan Carter
Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Location: Kent, England.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:24 am Post subject: Re: Daily Mail report of father and daughter fatality |
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I would go for stall or spin, but I understand he was a pilot with a reasonable amount of hours on type, and they always go for pilot error, so its only guess work from me, and structural failure meaning loss of control through some component failing, not the wings breaking off or tail plane.
I hope the investigators find the right cause of this crash,
Alan
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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
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| Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:11 am Post subject: Daily Mail report of father and daughter fatality |
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This is very sad. Our thoughts are with that
family.
***
I have something to report about the accident
plane. This is a bit scary but I have known over
11 years that it is maybe not so well built (at
least it is fast built).
My building process was around it´s mid when
visited EAA Sweden fly-in in Barkarby 2002. Our
family friend Bob Harrison was there as well as
Mr. Keith Wilson with his huge cameras and extra
thick wallet but that´s an another story.
G-GBXS was there. It looked very nice, almost a
show finished plane (actually, there was a show).
I was very curious what´s there under the hatches.
To learn something I took a screwdriver and opened
all the possible hatches and covers to visit
inside. That was awful. I was a novice but
understood this is something I definetely would
and will do better. Look attachments. Very
careless. Dirty. Corrosion. A Fuel pump area was
like a spider´s nest. That inspection happened 1st
of June 2002. I got new standards to finish my
plane.
I underline my observations have maybe nothing to
do with XS´ flight safety nor that accident and
all these invisible details have maybe and
hopefully fixed years ago to equal better level
and higher standards.
Build carefull - make beauty first inside then
outside!
Raimo Toivio
# 417 OH-XRT
Finland
+ 358 - 3 - 3753 777
-----Alkuperäinen viesti-----
From: David Joyce
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 7:23 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Daily Mail report of
father and daughter fatality
<davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk>
The fact that the wreckage seems to be all
together would
argue against a mid air structural failure. Very
sad
indeed. David Joyce. G-XSDJ
On Fri, 23 Aug 2013 09:07:01 -0700
"Alan Carter" <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
<alancarteresq(at)onetel.net>
Hello All.
The crash occurred a couple of days ago, the
aircraft is,
G-GBXS, Mono, 914, crashed killing two on board
about 300 to 500 m short of runway.
Built in 1998. look like an Ex Europa
Demonstrator, see photo in G info.
It is really sad, the brother was watching the
plane when it crashed.
>From the photo, my guess only, it looks like a
>stall or spin impacted ,
or Structural failure as the plane looks like it
hit the ground hard and flat.
We will have to wait for the inspection to get
the answer.
Anyway it is tragic misfortune for the family.
Regards.
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407357#407357
Un/Subscription,
Forums!
Admin.
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browse
Un/Subscription,
FAQ,
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
Forums!
List Admin.
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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:18 am Post subject: Daily Mail report of father and daughter fatality |
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I forgot the attachment, sorry!
Notice for example both accus (batteries) were
loose and not fastened at all.
RT
-----Alkuperäinen viesti-----
From: Raimo Toivio
Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2013 1:10 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Cc: Raimo Toivio
Subject: Re: Re: Daily Mail report of
father and daughter fatality
This is very sad. Our thoughts are with that
family.
***
I have something to report about the accident
plane. This is a bit scary but I have known over
11 years that it is maybe not so well built (at
least it is fast built).
My building process was around it´s mid when
visited EAA Sweden fly-in in Barkarby 2002. Our
family friend Bob Harrison was there as well as
Mr. Keith Wilson with his huge cameras and extra
thick wallet but that´s an another story.
G-GBXS was there. It looked very nice, almost a
show finished plane (actually, there was a show).
I was very curious what´s there under the hatches.
To learn something I took a screwdriver and opened
all the possible hatches and covers to visit
inside. That was awful. I was a novice but
understood this is something I definetely would
and will do better. Look attachments. Very
careless. Dirty. Corrosion. A Fuel pump area was
like a spider´s nest. That inspection happened 1st
of June 2002. I got new standards to finish my
plane.
I underline my observations have maybe nothing to
do with XS´ flight safety nor that accident and
all these invisible details have maybe and
hopefully fixed years ago to equal better level
and higher standards.
Build carefull - make beauty first inside then
outside!
Raimo Toivio
# 417 OH-XRT
Finland
+ 358 - 3 - 3753 777
-----Alkuperäinen viesti-----
From: David Joyce
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 7:23 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Daily Mail report of
father and daughter fatality
<davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk>
The fact that the wreckage seems to be all
together would
argue against a mid air structural failure. Very
sad
indeed. David Joyce. G-XSDJ
On Fri, 23 Aug 2013 09:07:01 -0700
"Alan Carter" <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
<alancarteresq(at)onetel.net>
Hello All.
The crash occurred a couple of days ago, the
aircraft is,
G-GBXS, Mono, 914, crashed killing two on board
about 300 to 500 m short of runway.
Built in 1998. look like an Ex Europa
Demonstrator, see photo in G info.
It is really sad, the brother was watching the
plane when it crashed.
>From the photo, my guess only, it looks like a
>stall or spin impacted ,
or Structural failure as the plane looks like it
hit the ground hard and flat.
We will have to wait for the inspection to get
the answer.
Anyway it is tragic misfortune for the family.
Regards.
Alan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407357#407357
Un/Subscription,
Forums!
Admin.
|
browse
Un/Subscription,
FAQ,
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
Forums!
List Admin.
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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John Wighton
Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 242
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| Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:23 am Post subject: Re: Daily Mail report of father and daughter fatality |
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The photos taken in 2002 of the crashed aircraft are shocking and hopefully not an indicator of the condition she was in at the time of the accident. But l have to say that if the level of neglect extended to the systems, especially the fuel system, the cause of the incident may easily have been a blocked filter. According to a close friend of David, whom l spoke to yesterday at the Rally, the accident occurred at full power in the climb out after refuelling. If so the classic case of power starvation due to a blocked filer is a possible cause. I note that the photos show the inline filter used is the standard glass tube variety. Blockage of this type of inline filter has caused many incidents and at least one written off Europa.
Analysing this filter shows it uses a 22 micron sized mesh. This is way smaller than the 100 micron (largest) stipulated by Rotax. I had a stoppage due to a blocked primary filter (same type) a few years ago, this led to a hasty decent into Elstree using the reserve feed (thanks for the fire cover guys). The filter was partially blocked with translucent material. It ran on the ground but would not feed fuel to the goverened 5000 rpm of my AP332 controller.
Having thereafter spent a year in a constant state of fuel feed anxiety l changed them for Andair filters which have a 60 micron filter size. To date these have proven extremely reliable (100%).
In 2012 l contacted Andy at Andair to ask if a version for 1/4in bore fuel lines could be made. He said it was quite easy, just a CNC program change, the filters would then have a push-on nipple type end and not require screw fit unions (as in my installation). Some discussion occurred with Andy Draper about the mod.
Yesterday l checked with Andair, he had not got around to adapting the CNC code and hence nothing had occurred at LAA Engineering.
If it turns out that the cause of the stoppage on GBXS was filter related (this is speculative but informed on my part) we should support some action which will lead to changes in the use of these standard glass tube filters. A possibility for Europas could be a new filter, perhaps the Andair version.
I shall write to the LAA with my concerns over the continued use of the glass tube, 22. Micron filters. If any Europa flyer, or other aircraft operator with the same filter type, can supply information regarding the use of these filters it may assist in deciding which way to go. Information such as frequency of inspection, frequency of cleaning, stoppage or partial blockage info, leaks, other issues will br gratefully received and treated in confidence. Likewise any info showing satisfactory in service history is also welcome. Please post info or email direct to me. John(dot)wighton(at)ultraflight.net
John Wighton
Chief of Stress
Pilatus Aircraft
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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_________________
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD |
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