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912 Spark Plugs

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John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:17 am Post subject: 912 Spark Plugs

Hi Folks:



I've been using iridium spark plugs in my 95 Nissan V6, Suzuki DRZ400E, and Honda Ricon, for some time now with excellent results.



My questions to the Rotax Engine List are:



Has anyone experimented with NGK DCPR7EIX/DCPR8EIX spark plugs in the 912UL/912ULS engines?



Anyone have any info from ROTAX reference use of iridium plugs?



I have never had any problems with DCPR7E/DCPR8E plugs in my 912UL/912ULS engines.  



Thanks,

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: 912 Spark Plugs

The iridium's will work, but I don't know if you really get any more for your money. They are almost triple the price.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:16 pm Post subject: Re: 912 Spark Plugs

Over the years we have gotten good results running the standard plug well past the 100 and 200 hour limits for the 912ULS and 912UL.  John Williamson went past 200 hours with his 912ULS.  I've been flying these engines for a long time.  I always hate to change them because I can never see any increase in performance with a new set of plugs.  Back in the days of the 912, 1993, a DCPR7ES cost about 9.00 each.  Rotax was the only supplier.  I contacted the US Distributor for NGK to find another source, but there was none.  There was nothing extraordinary about the DCPR7ES, but ROTAX's price.



I think the iridium plugs will go much, much further.  Eventually, Rotax will probably start supplying them.



If I didn't have a fresh set of DCPR8ES plugs to install, I'd spring for a set of iridium.  My main concern was if they had the same rib pattern and screw off nuts.  From photos, looks like they have the ribs and specs indicate screw off nuts.  I'll have to wait another 100 hours to do some experimenting.



Surprised no one has not already tried them.

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:19 am Post subject: Re: 912 Spark Plugs

You can buy NGK DCPR8E plugs for about $2.80 each ($22.40 total). Iridium's are about $9 each ($72 total). You can afford to have new plugs 3 times for the price of iridium's. Iridium's will still need to be gapped and cleaned. Any leaded fuel will still deposit lead. I know you travel a lot so you may use 100LL more often than some?

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:26 am Post subject: Re: 912 Spark Plugs

I found NGK Iridium Plugs, DCPR8EIX, last night for 6.99 at the local O'reilly's Auto.  I get a 10% military discount, so that brings them down to 6.30 each.  I can afford that.



Only time I ever fouled a plug was a DCPR7E on the 912 during a flight to Alaska in 1994.  Wasn't a problem, just an annoyance until I got on the ground in Sault Saint Marie, Ontario, where I cleaned it with my pin knife.



Haven't had a problem with lead fouling on the 912 or the 912ULS's since.  Yes, I burn a lot of 100LL.  All one can get on cross country flights.  On a normal flight out West I will fly about 75 hours and burn 375 gals of 100LL.  I fly at 5,000 rpm and higher, always.  Don't believe in babying the 912.  That and a little Marvel Mystery Oil keeps the 912ULS happy.  On one trip to Alaska I used Alcor TCP.  Didn't seem to do any better job than the MMO.  



I believe I will get a little improvement with the iridium plugs.  Will only know once I get them installed and when the weather gets a bit better, get some time on them.



Thanks for the info from Roger Lee and the welcome from Johann J, an old friend from the Kolb List.

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

mortweaver(at)sbcglobal.n
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:08 am Post subject: 912 Spark Plugs

The iridium electrode plugs feature perhaps the lowest rate of electrode loss or wear over time.  They make sense for high energy ignition systems.  The Rotax ignition system is a low energy system where standard spark plug electrode wear over time is very low.  I appreciate the low maintenance of iridium spark plugs in my autos, but do not feel they are a good investment for my Rotax 912.  I consider iridium spark plugs in my autos to be life time plugs.  I have a Toyota that is at 200,000 miles with the original iridium spark plugs still performing as if the auto were new.  After first 100,000 miles, the electrode gap had changed only 1.5 - 2.0 thousandths!  When I do pull them, I check for gas leakage around the porcelain insulator before regaping and  reinstallation.  Some auto manufacturers spec their autos equipped with iridium spark plugs for spark plug service after 100,000 miles.

David Weaver N012GR

  



     

   From: Roger Lee <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com>

 To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 6:49 PM

 Subject:  Re: 912 Spark Plugs

  

 

 --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)>



The iridium's will work, but I don't know if you really get any more for your money. They are almost triple the price.



--------

Roger Lee

Tucson, Az.

Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated

Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated

Home 520-574-1080  TRY HOME FIRST

Cell 520-349-7056





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopnbsp;                 -Matt Dralle,============

 

 

  

 [quote][b]

BARRY CHECK 6

Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738

Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:58 am Post subject: 912 Spark Plugs

David:

 You are using reverse logic.  The poorer the ignition system the more you should do to improve it.  Not to keep it poor.  The advantage of iridium or platinum plugs are:

 1 - Harder denser material which will not reverse deposit, deteriorating away the electrode.

2 - Higher corrosion protection so the electrodes will not rust away loosing material.

 3 - Higher resistance to erosion at high temperatures both from the heat of the engine and the heat of the electric spark.

 4 - Lower electrical resistance.

5 - Smaller surface area which reduces carbon and lead fouling.  I know, I know, this sounds like reverse logic, doesn't it! - Because you would think that MORE area would be required so when you get carbon and lead fouling more area would be available for the spark to jump across the electrodes.  NOT SO! Better conduction, with smaller area, allows the carbon and lead fouling to be blown off an NOT get a foot hold.  Contrary to popular opinion - More is not always better.  Consider the Massive Electro Plugs - No where near as good as the 'BY' series or the better iridium plugs. 

 



I do not understand why a new engines like the Rotax do not have a modern ignition system.  You would think that all that was learned over the past 104 years of aviation and automobiles - SOME of it would be applied to today's engines.

 Car ignition systems of today produce 60,000 to 100,000 Volts to make a spark.  Yes, there are some systems today that are up there, some, very few.

 



As for co$t.  I don't think you will find anyone else as tight fist'd as I.  And even so when you compare:  A basic plug of $2.50 Vs a iridium plug of $7.50 ...  What are you talking about a $5 difference!!!  That would be $25 more for an entire engine that cost you $18,000!  $25 would buy you about 4.5 gallons of AvGas or 6.5 gallons of MoGas.  How much is it worth NOT to get stranded and NOT have to pull & clean the plugs? This is one area where I want to hedge my bet.

 



Barry 



On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 9:08 AM, David Weaver <mortweaver(at)sbcglobal.net (mortweaver(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:

 [quote]

The iridium electrode plugs feature perhaps the lowest rate of electrode loss or wear over time.  They make sense for high energy ignition systems.  The Rotax ignition system is a low energy system where standard spark plug electrode wear over time is very low.  I appreciate the low maintenance of iridium spark plugs in my autos, but do not feel they are a good investment for my Rotax 912.  I consider iridium spark plugs in my autos to be life time plugs.  I have a Toyota that is at 200,000 miles with the original iridium spark plugs still performing as if the auto were new.  After first 100,000 miles, the electrode gap had changed only 1.5 - 2.0 thousandths!  When I do pull them, I check for gas leakage around the porcelain insulator before regaping and  reinstallation.  Some auto manufacturers spec their autos equipped with iridium spark plugs for spark plug service after 100,000 miles.

David Weaver N012GR

  



       

   From: Roger Lee <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)>

 To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com (rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com) 

  Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 6:49 PM

 Subject:  Re: 912 Spark Plugs

  

 

 --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)>



The iridium's will work, but I don't know if you really get any more for your money. They are almost triple the price.

 

--------

Roger Lee

Tucson, Az.

Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated

Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated

Home [url=tel:520-574-1080]520-574-1080[/url]  TRY HOME FIRST

 Cell [url=tel:520-349-7056]520-349-7056[/url]





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopnbsp;                 -Matt Dralle,============

 



 

 

  

  	  Quote: 	
		  



ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RotaxEngines-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


[b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:05 am Post subject: Re: 912 Spark Plugs

I have a set of DCPR8EIX NGK's to install as soon as I get a chance.  Anxious to see how they perform in the 912ULS compared to the DCPR8E NGK's.  If I get a little more power, I'll take it.  If I get a little bit better fuel burn, I'll take that too.



I paid twice as much for the iridium plugs as I would have for standard plugs.  I'm sure I can get 200 hours out of them, we did that with DCPR8E's in the 912ULS.



At the rate I have been flying the last couple years, those iridium plugs may last the rest of my life.

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

mortweaver(at)sbcglobal.n
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:53 am Post subject: 912 Spark Plugs

I have over 350 hours on a 912-UL engine burning no-lead auto fuel.  I purchased an extra set of standard NGK plugs so I could have a clean extra set to swap out on periodic inspection.  It appears that the standard plugs may last for the first 1,000 hours of engine operation simply by cleaning and readjusting electrode gap as necessary.  I know some believe cleaning spark plugs to be improper procedure and dirty plugs should be replaced.  It is hard for me to change what I have learned from experience working on gas engines from the time that we were polarizing replacement voltage regulators on automotive electrical system with generators.  When it comes time to replace the manufacturer specked spark plugs, I will install the iridium equivalent and fully expect to  see no change in engine performance. 

Dave Weaver N912GR

   From: John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>

 To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 7:05 AM

 Subject: Re: 912 Spark Plugs

 --> RotaxEngines-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)>

I have a set of DCPR8EIX NGK's to install as soon as I get a chance.  Anxious to see how they perform in the 912ULS compared to the DCPR8E NGK's.  If I get a little more power, I'll take it.  If I get a little bit better fuel burn, I'll take that too.

I paid twice as much for the iridium plugs as I would have for standard plugs.  I'm sure I can get 200 hours out of them, we did that with DCPR8E's in the 912ULS.

At the rate I have been flying the last couple years, those iridium plugs may last the rest of my life.  

--------

John Hauck

MKIII/912ULS

hauck's holler

Titus, Alabama

Read this topic online  here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419114#419114

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:19 pm Post subject: 912 Spark Plugs

Hi Folks:

 

The 912UL is much easier on spark plugs than the 912ULS, having discovered this by flying 1250.0 hours with my 912 (bought it before the 912UL/912ULS were developed), and 2,000.0+ hours on my 912ULS's.  On a steady diet of MOGAS, the 912UL might just make it to 1,000.0 hours on a set of plugs, but I imagine there won't be much left of the electrode and ground strap.

 

I pulled my old DCPR8ES's out of the 912ULS this morning and replaced with DCPR8EIX's.  Comparing the two plugs it seems to me that the newer technology will work a lot better in my engine.  I am going to think positive and hope for a slight improvement in performance.  I can use all I can get.

 

I have three tractors that sport generators and voltage regulators.  However, I polarize the generator and not the regulator.  My first generator was on a 1931 Model A Ford I drove to school back in the mid-50's.  However, back then I didn't know the first thing about polarizing generators.   

 

Looking forward to flying with the iridium plugs as soon as my airstrip dries out from the thunder storms last night, and I get the cow manure spread out to dry.  The cows love to crap on my airstrip.  I have a diamond drag I made out of 6 truck tires.  I use the old antique tractors to pull the drag to spread the manure which helps it dry faster.  Kills two birds with one stone.  Gets the old gals some exercise and helps keep the cow crap off my airplane.

 

john h

Kolb MKIII - 3,231.8 hours

912ULS - 663.3 hours

Titus, Alabama

 

 

 

I have over 350 hours on a 912-UL engine burning no-lead auto fuel 

 

It is hard for me to change what I have learned from experience working on gas engines from the time that we were polarizing replacement voltage regulators on automotive electrical system with generators. 

 

When it comes time to replace the manufacturer specked spark plugs, I will install the iridium equivalent and fully expect to see no change in engine performance. 

 



Dave Weaver N912GR



[quote]  [b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

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