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rowedenny
Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Location: Western PA
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 Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:25 am Post subject: Rear housing for a Rotax E- gearbox |
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Anybody know anyone parting out an E gearbox? I bought a used one with my 670 bottom end and when prepping the engine last night for the test stand I discovered a crack that goes half way around the drain plug and it leaks oil.
If I can't find a used housing, I'm going to have to weld it.
Apparently a former owner over torqued the drain plug and cracked the housing.
The engine builder doesn't think it left his shop like that, but that's the third defect I found in this bottom end since receiving it from him. Also, the crack has dirty oil in it and is definitely not fresh. Also, the drain plug looks like it was through a war.
Live and learn.
I know damn well I didn't crack it and it wasn't damaged In shipping as the crate was in good condition and well protected.
Seriously bummed.
Dennis "Skid" Rowe
Mk3, 690L-70, Leechburg, PA
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roy.spangler(at)kirtland.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:38 pm Post subject: Rear housing for a Rotax E- gearbox |
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Mr. Rowe,
In as much as it is not a structural issue consider JB Weld
fyi
roy
On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 2:51 PM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:
[quote]Dennis:
I feel your pain. Evidently, you are having a case of
"Hauck's luck".
Better days are coming.
john h
mkIII
Rock House, Oregon
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rowedenny
Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Location: Western PA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:25 am Post subject: Rear housing for a Rotax E- gearbox |
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Hey guys,
Disassembly of the housing and removal of the plug reveled damage to the threads. Looks like someone may have cross threaded the plug and caused the crack, than chased the threads to clean it up. Real butcher. Anyway, it's at the weld shop now and I figure I'll have to helicoil the hole after the repair.
Anyone know what thread those suckers are?
Dennis "Skid" RoweMk3, 690L-70, Leechburg, PA
On Jun 12, 2014, at 4:38 PM, Roy Spangler <roy.spangler(at)kirtland.edu (roy.spangler(at)kirtland.edu)> wrote:
[quote]
Mr. Rowe,
In as much as it is not a structural issue consider JB Weld
fyi
roy
On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 2:51 PM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:
[quote]Dennis:
I feel your pain. Evidently, you are having a case of
"Hauck's luck".
Better days are coming.
john h
mkIII
Rock House, Oregon
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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:13 pm Post subject: Rear housing for a Rotax E- gearbox |
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Dennis, From the IPC, part no. 840270, plug, magnetic M18 X 1.5.
Rick Girard
do not archive
On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 6:24 AM, Dennis Rowe <rowedenny(at)windstream.net (rowedenny(at)windstream.net)> wrote:
[quote]Hey guys,
Disassembly of the housing and removal of the plug reveled damage to the threads. Looks like someone may have cross threaded the plug and caused the crack, than chased the threads to clean it up. Real butcher. Anyway, it's at the weld shop now and I figure I'll have to helicoil the hole after the repair.
Anyone know what thread those suckers are?
Dennis "Skid" RoweMk3, 690L-70, Leechburg, PA
On Jun 12, 2014, at 4:38 PM, Roy Spangler <roy.spangler(at)kirtland.edu (roy.spangler(at)kirtland.edu)> wrote:
[quote]
Mr. Rowe,
In as much as it is not a structural issue consider JB Weld
fyi
roy
On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 2:51 PM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:
[quote]Dennis:
I feel your pain. Evidently, you are having a case of
"Hauck's luck".
Better days are coming.
john h
mkIII
Rock House, Oregon
--
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The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy.... |
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racerjerry
Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 202
Location: Deer Park, NY
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 3:26 am Post subject: Re: Rear housing for a Rotax E- gearbox |
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In order to have a CHANCE to seal, the plug will require a perfectly flat sealing surface exactly perpendicular to the new threads. The sealing washer/gasket is most likely not very forgiving of error. I doubt very much if this job can be performed by hand. The tapping operation and afterward a light skim cut to the sealing surface really needs to be performed with the case clamped securely in a vertical mill like a Bridgeport and most likely needs a Bridgeport with a riser block installed to take the height.
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Jerry King |
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byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:24 am Post subject: Rear housing for a Rotax E- gearbox |
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If he uses a 1/8 inch npt pipe thread and plug, it is a tapered thread. No square shoulder necessary.
Boyd On Jun 15, 2014 5:28 AM, "racerjerry" <gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us (gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us)> wrote:[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: "racerjerry" <gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us (gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us)>
In order to have a CHANCE to seal, the plug will require a perfectly flat sealing surface exactly perpendicular to the new threads. The sealing washer/gasket is most likely not very forgiving of error. I doubt very much if this job can be performed by hand. The tapping operation and afterward a light skim cut to the sealing surface really needs to be performed with the case clamped securely in a vertical mill like a Bridgeport and most likely needs a Bridgeport with a riser block installed to take the height.
--------
Jerry King
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424864#424864
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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 2:08 pm Post subject: Rear housing for a Rotax E- gearbox |
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Boyd, The stock plug is 18 mm (.7087") so you'd have to do a lot of welding to shrink the hole down to a 1/8-27 NPT, for which the tap drill size is only .332". By far the greater problem is keeping that casting from warping and destroying the sealing surface that mates it to the gear case. If that has to be re-cut then you have to spot face all the bearing bores, too, to maintain their clearance. At that point you've probably elevated the cost to the point where it would be cheaper to buy a new gear cover, since no matter what you do you're going to have to re-shim all the bearings to get the proper end plays and bearing pre-loads. When I took the clutch out of my "C" gearbox and put the rubber coupling back in I spent the better part of a day getting it all set up properly and I was fresh out of Lockwood's Rotax school where I'd just done it in class. It's not hard to do but it is quite tedious and should be done in clean room conditions as the clearance tolerances involved are very small and you'll need to find a copy of the two stroke Heavy Maintenance manual to get the procedure.
Bottom line if you're out there Denny, I'd call Lockwood and get their estimate on cost to fix. It would be a shame to wreck you're new engine if the gearbox locks up or has a melt down not to mention having to make an emergency off field landing if you're unlucky enough not to be over an airport at the time.
My two cents.
Rick Girard
do not archive
PS Denny who was the brilliant mechanic (so called) that did this? I know I'd like to avoid sending him any business.
On Sun, Jun 15, 2014 at 9:24 AM, B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com (byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
If he uses a 1/8 inch npt pipe thread and plug, it is a tapered thread. No square shoulder necessary.
Boyd On Jun 15, 2014 5:28 AM, "racerjerry" <gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us (gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "racerjerry" <gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us (gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us)>
In order to have a CHANCE to seal, the plug will require a perfectly flat sealing surface exactly perpendicular to the new threads. The sealing washer/gasket is most likely not very forgiving of error. I doubt very much if this job can be performed by hand. The tapping operation and afterward a light skim cut to the sealing surface really needs to be performed with the case clamped securely in a vertical mill like a Bridgeport and most likely needs a Bridgeport with a riser block installed to take the height.
--------
Jerry King
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424864#424864
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Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
[quote][b]
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rowedenny
Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Location: Western PA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:22 am Post subject: Rear housing for a Rotax E- gearbox |
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Ok all,
This is what was done to fix it.
The crack was welded, than a 1/4" plate was welded over the old hole. Brought it home, center drilled and tapped the plate to 1/8 npt. Installed a brass hex head plug which I drilled for safety wire.
I'm pretty much done buying used gearboxes. Too many gorillas out there turning wrenches on these airplanes.
I've had two very bad experiences in the past couple years, one was a used c- box that got lost in the mail due to packaging that didn't allow for the abuse the USPS dishes out, and now I've got this.
On the bright side, I ran the 670 yesterday on the stand for ten minutes and it started right up and ran smooth as can be. Very quiet. Of course the setbacks included a leak in a weld on the radiator and a leaky outer seal on the head. New JBM seals are ordered and the rad is at the welder and will get a petcock installed to make draining the coolant a lot less messy. Also installing a drain in the water pump housing for the same reason.
Dennis "Skid" Rowe
Mk3, 690L-70, Leechburg, PA
[quote] On Jun 15, 2014, at 6:08 PM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Boyd, The stock plug is 18 mm (.7087") so you'd have to do a lot of welding to shrink the hole down to a 1/8-27 NPT, for which the tap drill size is only .332".
By far the greater problem is keeping that casting from warping and destroying the sealing surface that mates it to the gear case. If that has to be re-cut then you have to spot face all the bearing bores, too, to maintain their clearance. At that point you've probably elevated the cost to the point where it would be cheaper to buy a new gear cover, since no matter what you do you're going to have to re-shim all the bearings to get the proper end plays and bearing pre-loads. When I took the clutch out of my "C" gearbox and put the rubber coupling back in I spent the better part of a day getting it all set up properly and I was fresh out of Lockwood's Rotax school where I'd just done it in class. It's not hard to do but it is quite tedious and should be done in clean room conditions as the clearance tolerances involved are very small and you'll need to find a copy of the two stroke Heavy Maintenance manual to get the procedure.
Bottom line if you're out there Denny, I'd call Lockwood and get their estimate on cost to fix. It would be a shame to wreck you're new engine if the gearbox locks up or has a melt down not to mention having to make an emergency off field landing if you're unlucky enough not to be over an airport at the time.
My two cents.
Rick Girard
do not archive
PS Denny who was the brilliant mechanic (so called) that did this? I know I'd like to avoid sending him any business.
> On Sun, Jun 15, 2014 at 9:24 AM, B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com> wrote:
> If he uses a 1/8 inch npt pipe thread and plug, it is a tapered thread. No square shoulder necessary.
> Boyd
>
>> On Jun 15, 2014 5:28 AM, "racerjerry" <gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us> wrote:
>>
>>
>> In order to have a CHANCE to seal, the plug will require a perfectly flat sealing surface exactly perpendicular to the new threads. The sealing washer/gasket is most likely not very forgiving of error. I doubt very much if this job can be performed by hand. The tapping operation and afterward a light skim cut to the sealing surface really needs to be performed with the case clamped securely in a vertical mill like a Bridgeport and most likely needs a Bridgeport with a riser block installed to take the height.
>>
>> --------
>> Jerry King
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424864#424864
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
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>> MS -
>> k">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ===========
>> e -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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>
>
>
> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
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Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy
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