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Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines

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JDelamarter(at)lycoming.t
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:14 pm Post subject: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines

To All:



I am new to the Matronics email list and would like to introduce myself.  My

name is Jon A. Delamarter.  I hold an A&P license and a degree in aircraft

maintenance from Spartan School of Aeronautics (Tulsa, OK).  I have been

married for more than my adult life (since 19) and have the world's most

wonderful wife and the 4 most beautiful and intelligent daughters that God

ever created.  (My dog's pretty smart too.)  I have about 50 hours of dual

in my logbook but have not soloed due to a disagreement between me and Uncle

Sam regarding my medical.  As a certified airplane freak and airport bum, I

might just hold some sort of record for "Most Types Flown Before Solo."  I

am particularly proud of the fact that I have T-6 aerobatic instruction on

the first page of my logbook!  My professional aviation career began upon

graduation from Spartan on December 17, 1999.  In the short 6½ years since,

I have enjoyed an unbelievably rewarding life.  With the blessings of loving

family support, an excellent education, and an absolute dedication to

excellence, I have experienced career satisfaction and growth that I could

not have imagined.  If you love this business, it will be good to you!  If

you don't love it, get out.  If I have learned one thing thus far, it is

this:  It's always about the people!  I have no idea how many of you will

read this email, but I want you to know something.  You aviation folks are

my family.  I am proud and humbled to be part of you.  



Having said all that, and at the risk of sounding crassly commercial, I'd

love to tell you folks about what I'm doing now.  As of February 1st of this

year, it has been my privilege to serve as manager of Lycoming's brand-new

experimental hot-rod shop, Thunderbolt Engines.  As you know, the absence of

Lycoming's direct participation in the past has not prevented the dominance

of our brand in the experimental market.  We owe this not only to those

designers who build their aircraft around our engine, but also and perhaps

even more so, to the inherent reliability and simplicity of our engines.

The bottom line is that, although many of you are willing to experiment with

different aircraft designs and construction techniques, few have the desire

to step away from the known quantity of a Lycoming engine.  



In recognition of this fact, Lycoming began a journey down a new road last

year with the introduction of the kit program.  This program is responsible

for the influx of new experimental Lycoming based engines being sold by 6

shops across the country.  With this move, Lycoming formally acknowledged

the credibility of the custom engine for the common man. 



On April 5th of this year, at Sun-'n-Fun in Lakeland, FL, Lycoming made

public the next step in its journey by unveiling Thunderbolt Engines.

Thunderbolt Engines exists to provide homebuilders, race pilots, and

competition aerobatic pilots with a factory engineered, factory built,

factory supported, factory guaranteed custom engine.  In the brief span of

time since the announcement, we have been pleased to learn that the first

reaction from most of our customers upon learning about Thunderbolt Engines

is shock followed immediately by excitement.  The most common comments have

been something like, "I'm so glad you guys are finally doing this.  I've

been waiting a long time and really didn't expect it to happen."  After

recovering from their initial surprise, many builders have eagerly shared

their ideas and concepts for customizing our engines.  There are a

significant number of builders who are willing to pay a fair price for a

factory experimental engine.  This core group understands the importance of

supporting the customization process with proper and adequate engineering,

quality, assembly, and testing protocol.  Thunderbolt Engines is housed in

the ATC (Advanced Technology Center) here at Lycoming.  The ATC is still

under development and will eventually consist of four build cells, static

display areas, an aircraft integration laboratory, a customer/employee

training facility, and offices.  Once completed, the ATC will be available

to you for tours and training.  We are currently operational and are

delivering engines.  The intent is to construct a state-of-the-art facility

that will demonstrate our commitment to CDTA, Customer Driven Technological

Advancement.  In plain English, we are creating, through the ATC, a

knowledge pool.  We encourage you to challenge us with your requests and

ideas.  We are discovering that many of our customers know a lot about our

product.  Through our involvement in the kit program, we have developed

relationships with individuals and companies that have successfully and

responsibly modified our engines for many years.  Through our customer

satisfaction surveys, we are gaining accurate, real-time Voice of the

Customer (VOC) data.  We have gained experience and customer exposure

through our support of Reno racing and competition aerobatics.  In addition,

Lycoming has made significant additions to its engineering staff.  These

folks come from various backgrounds and bring fresh perspective and skills

to the table.  By leveraging the data gathered from all these resources,

(customers, kit shops, customer surveys, racing/aerobatics, engineering,

etc.), we are building the knowledge pool.  This data not only accelerates

our development technically, it also allows us to focus on developing those

products that best fulfill the needs of the customer.  



The development of a Thunderbolt engine begins and ends with the Voice of

the Customer.  Many builders call us requesting pricing for a specific

engine.  While we certainly provide that information, we also attempt to

glean as much information as possible regarding specific aircraft

application and desired performance.  From that data, we are frequently able

to provide the builder with several options, some of which they may not have

known existed.  Through this process, we accomplish two things.  First, we

match the builder with a custom solution that best accomplishes their stated

goal.  Secondly, and equally important, we demonstrate our commitment to the

customer's best interests, rather than pushing a particular product.  Our

customers have expressed a great deal of satisfaction with this process and

have been quick to differentiate us from the competition in this regard.  

Thunderbolt Engines are currently segregated into three series:  Signature,

Extreme, and Competition.  A Thunderbolt Signature Series Engine is

differentiated from a certified, production engine in several ways.  Like

all Thunderbolt Engines, Signature Series engines are constructed in

dedicated build cells by two man teams.  In addition to being team built,

Signature engines are internally balanced and will be configured to the

customer's exact specifications.  Items that may be customized range from

major configuration changes such as crankcase or crankshaft to fuel systems,

ignition systems, sumps, induction components, and turbocharging.  Customers

will also choose from appearance options such as engine color(s), chrome,

etc.  Billet aluminum components such as the prototype rocker covers

displayed at Sun-'n-Fun are in development but not yet online.

Representative of this series would be the engine built last year for Mike

Melville, the world's first civilian astronaut.  This engine was an

O-360-A4M configured for updraft cooling and incorporating an experimental

Ellison fuel system.  Mike operates this engine in a Long-EZ.  Thunderbolt

Signature Series engines will receive a 2-year warranty.  This is a real

warranty with real value.  



Thunderbolt Extreme Series engines incorporate all the features of the

Signature Series and continue to the next level in terms of performance

upgrades.  These items may consist of mildly increased compression ratio or

boost levels, or other yet to be defined upgrades.  Thunderbolt Extreme

Series engines will receive a reduced warranty, due to the expected types of

operational dynamics.  



Thunderbolt Competition Series engines incorporate all the features of the

Signature and Extreme Series and continue to the maximum level of

performance.  These upgrades may consist of dramatically increased

compression ratio or boost levels, water injection, and/or other yet to be

defined upgrades.  Representative of this group would be the engines built

for Jon Sharp's Nemesis NXT and Mike Jones' Glasair III.  Also

representative of this group would be the engine we just shipped to Extra

for the new Mike Goulian airplane.  This engine is an AEIO-580-L1B5 with

very special cylinders, pistons, and sparkplugs.  Once fully broken in, we

are expecting 340-350 hp (at) 2700 RPM and 11:1 compression.  Walter Extra

reports unbelievable climb from an extremely smooth-running engine.

Competition Series engines will be limited to highly experienced pilots and

will require a signed agreement from the customer limiting his right to sell

or change ownership of the engine.  Any such change would require Lycoming's

approval.  The purpose of this constraint is to prevent the sale of a 340hp

AEIO-580 to a 40hr. Cessna driver!  These engines are all out performance

machines, have no representation of reliability, and carry no warranty.  



Okay, enough for the blurb.  Let's get down to brass tacks.  At not quite 32

years of age, I am smart enough to know that I'm still wet behind the ears!

I do not pretend to know everything there is to know about aircraft engines.

However, I absolutely believe in Lycoming Engines and stand ready to support

you in any way possible.  I am here to serve as the conduit between you, the

builder, and the full support of Lycoming's able staff of engineers,

technicians, and support personnel.  I want you to know that I share your

enthusiasm for our sport and that I hope for the opportunity to speak to

each of you.  I will be at Arlington, Oshkosh, and Reno.  Please drop by or

contact me with your questions and ideas.  I will make every attempt to

answer your inquiry personally and in a timely fashion.  



Sincerely,



Jon A. Delamarter

Thunderbolt Manager

Lycoming Engines

(570)327-7115

Afterfxllc(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:15 pm Post subject: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines

I to love aviation and have since I was a kid....But the only way I'm going  

to get my bird in the air is to look else where for a power plant. Sure I  

would love to hang a brand new Lycoming on the front of my bird but then I would  

be just like everyone else that would love to fly but can't afford to.  I'm 

sorry but my kit cost was 18,000.00 and with avionics I'm at 24 or 25  thousand.

I am putting a corvair conversion in front of me for another 3,000.00. I  

think Lycoming should stick with certified aircraft or bring us a truly  

experimental engine with a price tag to reflect the same or I feel you will be  left 

behind in this market, others are at least coming up with alternatives  

Lycoming is just giving us more of the same in a different colored  box.

 

FWIW

Jeff

barcusc(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:41 pm Post subject: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines

Well said! If money was no object I would be flying a new glass paneled 

Grumman Tiger powered by Lycoming.



Clyde Barcus

601XL, Corvair Powered



Do Not Archive

---

paulrod36(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:29 pm Post subject: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  I'm afarid I would have to agree. Nothing against Lycoming, I flew behind  an O-320 for 15 years, loving every minute of it, but a major proportion  of homebuilders are trying to avoid new-plane, and certified-engine prices  when we build.   (It's analagous to hot rods. When I was a kid, you  built what you drove, and if a magazine wrote you up, it was celebrating what  you'd done with your own hands. Look at the average street rod magazine now, and  it's Joe Jones' masterpiece, with engine by A, frame by B, upholstery by C,  paint by D, and a celebration of Jones' wallet.)    My 6-cylinder  Corvair conversion will run smoother than a 4-cylinder Lycoming, and about  $13,000 cheaper. If Lycoming and Continental want to penetrate the homebuilt and  LSA markets, they need to fit our demographics, rather then expecting us to fit  their price lists. I have nothing against anybody wanting to fly Lycomings or  Continentals. It's chacon a son gout. I'd love to see them jump in, but at price  points reflective of the niche they want to fill. Come to think of it, at the  rate LSA is expanding, we are becoming a pretty market-significant niche, at  that.  

  

 On a related subject, I've always understood that certified engines are  costlier because of the hoops they have to jump through, and the fact that  nobody less than an A&P can wrench on them, and that automotive engines,  although they have just as many or more parts, built to water-cooled tolerances,  can cost way less out of the crate.  Wouldn't it be nice if one of the bigs  offered a crate full of parts for the homebuilder to assemble, as an  experimental engine, at  a comparable price?

  

 Paul Rodriguez

 601XL/CORVAAAAIIR!

  DO NOT ARCHIVE.

 [quote]   ---

pacificpainting(at)comcas
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:48 pm Post subject: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines

Now, if someone would just come up with a reliable 180 HP  engine that is reliable and cost like a corvair. Even the Subaru conversions are  more than an experimental 180XP.

  

  

 [quote]   ---

Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:25 am Post subject: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines

In a message dated 6/23/2006 4:58:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time,  pacificpainting(at)comcast.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I would    also agree that the Subaru conversion guys have gotten way out of line...when    you can buy a stock Subaru engine brand new for 3,500.00 where is all    this extra cost coming from? I remember when they first came out they were    like 10 grand then every time I talked to them they upped the price. As    far as I'm concerned the corvair conversion is the way to go for LSA. But just    like all things that make this affordable someone will try and snatch up all    the engines they can then resell them for an arm and a  leg. 	
  

 Jeff

  	  Quote:

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 5:29 am Post subject: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines

Hi Guys,

As a Stratus Subaru owner, I couldn't agree more.  The Lycs are just too 

expensive to consider, but there are more engines

coming on line that are in the 100 to 120 hp arena.  I've been reading 

about the R3000 from Revmaster which is completely

new, not VW in Contact Magazine and it's 110 hp will be available at 

less than $10K.  For the 601 builders, auto conversions

are a way to go, not just another compromise. 



http://www.revmasteraviation.com/products/under_development/index.htm



Lycoming prices will just bring these developments about quicker



Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

Afterfxllc(at)aol.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   In a message dated 6/23/2006 4:58:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 

 pacificpainting(at)comcast.net writes:



     I would also agree that the Subaru conversion guys have gotten way

     out of line...when you can buy a stock Subaru engine brand new for

     3,500.00 where is all this extra cost coming from? I remember when

     they first came out they were like 10 grand then every time I

     talked to them they upped the price. As far as I'm concerned the

     corvair conversion is the way to go for LSA. But just like all

     things that make this affordable someone will try and snatch up

     all the engines they can then resell them for an arm and a leg.



  

 Jeff

frank.hinde(at)hp.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:48 am Post subject: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines

Never underestimate the  power of Volume when it comes to reducing price. From my old MBA days a  doublings in volume equated typically to reducing overal costs by  30%.

  

 I heard somewhere tat GM  makes more engines in one day than Lycoming made in its entire lifetime (no  facts just hearsay). You can see this will have a dramatic effect on  cost.

  

 Of course an Eggenfelner  Soob will have a rebuild cost way lower than a IO360 clone.

  

 Then again I hope to not  wear out my new IO360 any time soon either....

  

 Frank

  

 Do not  archive



   From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave  Ruddiman

Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 10:46 PM

To:  zenith-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Lycoming  Thunderbolt Engines

 

 Now, if someone would just come up with a reliable 180 HP  engine that is reliable and cost like a corvair. Even the Subaru conversions are  more than an experimental 180XP.

  

  

 [quote]   ---

lllanducci(at)tds.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 9:42 am Post subject: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines

Regarding the statement "the fact that nobody less than an A&P can 

wrench on them", which refers to certified engines is not a fact, but a 

misconception.

Once a certified engine is installed in an experimental aircraft the 

builder of the aircraft can service, overhaul, and do whatever he wants 

with the engine, even though this may not be smart if he is not capable 

of it.



Larry Landucci

Builder # 84865

N801LL

ch601xl(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:28 pm Post subject: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines

On 6/23/06, Larry Landucci <lllanducci(at)tds.net (lllanducci(at)tds.net)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		   Regarding the statement "the fact that nobody less than an A&P can

wrench on them", which refers to certified engines is not a fact, but a

misconception.

Once a certified engine is installed in an experimental aircraft the 

builder of the aircraft can service, overhaul, and do whatever he wants

with the engine, even though this may not be smart if he is not capable

of it.



Larry Landucci

Builder # 84865

N801LL

	
 

-- 

Christopher W. E. Smith

fly1m1

http://ch-601xl.com

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