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still fighting

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jflan(at)zianet.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:25 am Post subject: still fighting

Have had to hold right stick (initial flight about dislocated right  shoulder and elbow) and a bit of rudder and right wing continues to want to  rise. Flaps and ailerons are fairly close to level with underside of wing. Tried  four-inch wide aluminum tab and slight relief, but this said to be '91 Mark III  Classic certainly hasn't flown hands off since last person may have tried it.  

  

 Haven't been up with this tab, yet. Further ideas?

  

 jsf

tab_right_aileron_7690.jpg

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jeepacro(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:44 am Post subject: still fighting

Can you put shim's in the wing swivel attach joint to help change the trailing edge angle of attack? Can you put one the top (right hand side) to lower, and one on the bottom of the left to lift?  

--

Rob.



---- "john s. flannery" <jflan(at)zianet.com> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   Have had to hold right stick (initial flight about dislocated right shoulder and elbow) and a bit of rudder and right wing continues to want to rise. Flaps and ailerons are fairly close to level with underside of wing. Tried four-inch wide aluminum tab and slight relief, but this said to be '91 Mark III Classic certainly hasn't flown hands off since last person may have tried it. 

 

 Haven't been up with this tab, yet. Further ideas?

 

 jsf

rlaird

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Houston

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:01 pm Post subject: still fighting

Do you know about the "English" u-joint that Kolb sells to help this

problem?  I bought it (I had the same problem) and it cured it

completely.  I no longer need bungee cords to act as trim (which would

be a temporary fix for you).

Contact Kolb and they'll send one out to you.

  -- Robert

On 6/23/06, jeepacro(at)cox.net <jeepacro(at)cox.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Can you put shim's in the wing swivel attach joint to help change the trailing edge angle of attack? Can you put one the top (right hand side) to lower, and one on the bottom of the left to lift?

 --

 Rob.

 ---- "john s. flannery" <jflan(at)zianet.com> wrote:

 > Have had to hold right stick (initial flight about dislocated right shoulder and elbow) and a bit of rudder and right wing continues to want to rise. Flaps and ailerons are fairly close to level with underside of wing. Tried four-inch wide aluminum tab and slight relief, but this said to be '91 Mark III Classic certainly hasn't flown hands off since last person may have tried it.

 >

 > Haven't been up with this tab, yet. Further ideas?

 >

 > jsf

_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert Laird
formerly: MkIIIc w/ 912ULS & Gyrobee
current: Autogyro Cavalon w/ 914ULS
Houston, TX area
http://www.Texas-Flyer.com

jflan(at)zianet.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:28 pm Post subject: still fighting

Many thanks. None of the three Kolb people IU have talked to at length have 

said a word about this item. I can't imagine why.



If I can get this bird to fly hands off, I shall be pleasantly surprised. 

Wouldn't mind flying  ultralights for pleasure rather than just survival. 

Again, gracios.



jsf in NM

---

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:34 pm Post subject: still fighting

| If I can get this bird to fly hands off, I shall be pleasantly 

surprised.

| Wouldn't mind flying  ultralights for pleasure rather than just 

survival.

| Again, gracios.

|

| jsf in NM



jsf in NM:



Reckon most all of us will be surprised if you get your Kolb to fly 

hands off, for more than a few seconds.



BTW what model Kolb do you have? and where are you located?



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:44 pm Post subject: still fighting

Don't know what model Kolb you have, but our Firestar II flies hands off 

real well.

But it has dihedral. Lots of dihedral. I think about 4.5 inches per wing.

You can fly it with just rudder pedals. Pictures here -

http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/kolb.htm

And there is also a link on this page to an adjustable aileron trim tab.

I think I might put some dihedral in my MKIII, see how it does.



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

do not archive



john s. flannery wrote:

[quote] 



 Many thanks. None of the three Kolb people IU have talked to at length 

 have said a word about this item. I can't imagine why.



 If I can get this bird to fly hands off, I shall be pleasantly 

 surprised. Wouldn't mind flying  ultralights for pleasure rather than 

 just survival. Again, gracios.



 jsf in NM

 ---

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:55 pm Post subject: still fighting

John, that is quite a tab.  First I would level the cabin and 

check/compare wing

incidences. Then check tailplane (horizonal stab)  incidence 

differential.

If only off a little I would go with the TNK  offset universal.

-Anybody know what they get for them?  $$$?



The air was nice today here in the northeast.  I got in a neighborhood 

tour

to check if anything is currently trying to fall off after last weeks 

rough

return trip.  Felt good.

-BB

On 23, Jun 2006, at 4:21 PM, john s. flannery wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Have had to hold right stick (initial flight about dislocated right 

 shoulder and elbow) and a bit of rudder and right wing continues to 

 want to rise. Flaps and ailerons are fairly close to level with 

 underside of wing. Tried four-inch wide aluminum tab and slight 

 relief, but this said to be '91 Mark III Classic certainly hasn't 

 flown hands off since last person may have tried it.

  

 Haven't been up with this tab, yet. Further ideas?

  

 jsf<tab right aileron_7690.jpg>

HShack(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:11 pm Post subject: still fighting

In a message dated 6/23/2006 8:56:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, slyck(at)frontiernet.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  If only off a little I would go with the TNK  offset universal.

-Anybody know what they get for them?  $$$? 	


  

  

 I think I paid $75 plus frt. for one.



  

 Howard Shackleford

FS II

SC

jflan(at)zianet.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:21 pm Post subject: still fighting

First, thanks. Appreciate the good feedback I've had. Here's what we did and 

realized today  had skipped putting protractor under horizontal stabilizer 

(flying wires don't twang like my friends Kolb Ultarstar II...more base, 

while his are treble, but left and right not far apart). I had been tweaking 

for a week or more, trying different approaches,  then went back to basics 

as level as possible, since dropping left flap had produced 5 or more mph 

less indicated  at same rpms.



We set boom at 0 degrees with protractor and then checked angle under wings. 

Both were 10.3 degrees or at least within a degree of each other.



Then leveled stick and measured slope under wings

Left aileron 13 degrees.

Left flap 14.5 degrees



Right aileron 13.5 degrees

Right flap 12 degrees



The pipes controlling flaps and ailerons were last measurements:

Left 22.5 degrees

Right 21 degrees.



The four inch length tab with about two extended aft and bent about 15 

degrees helped, but stick was still needed to keep it near level in flight. 

Still feels like yawing. Replaced the aileron  tab with 12" length and have 

not flown. Not a good morning. Today, hopefully monsoons will start here in 

the drought-stricken Southwest.



jsf



---

ulflyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 9:24 pm Post subject: still fighting

Bob,

Many different things can contribute to the flight characteristics 

your experiencing.  Sounds like a rigging problem.  In order to 

determine the likely cause it will be necessary to properly level the 

aircraft in the proper attitude to take correct meaningful 

measurements.  This becomes a process of elimination.  Refer to the 

builders manual on how measurements should be taken and how the 

aircraft needs to be leveled during the process.



- Level the Aircraft - see the builders manual for reference points 

and detailed procedure.

- Wing incidence at the wing root - where it should be and equal on both sides.

- Wing twist on each wing - equal both sides - inboard station near 

wing root compared to last full rib station.

- Wing dihedral at the wing tip - equal on both sides.

- Flaps - do they have equal deflection (reflect) relative to the 

lower surface of the wing,

- Ailerons/Flaperons - are they both centered when stick is in the 

center, neutral position.

         - is the trailing edge position correct relative to the 

training edge of the flaps.

- Tail vertical stab alignment, centered, or off set in the correct direction.

- Horizontal stabilizer - incidence and dihedral set within the 

proper range and equal both sides.

- Engine thrust line - is the engine set in the proper position,

         - up/down tilt, rotated the proper amount and in the correct 

direction from the plans

           specified reference  point.

jerb

At 03:21 PM 6/23/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Have had to hold right stick (initial flight about dislocated right 

shoulder and elbow) and a bit of rudder and right wing continues to 

want to rise. Flaps and ailerons are fairly close to level with 

underside of wing. Tried four-inch wide aluminum tab and slight 

relief, but this said to be '91 Mark III Classic certainly hasn't 

flown hands off since last person may have tried it.



Haven't been up with this tab, yet. Further ideas?



jsf

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