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bakerocb

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA

Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:00 am Post subject: Emailing: 033 (2)

7/28/2014



Hello Tim, Thanks for the pictures and the explanation. You wrote:



1) "Looks like I cut the new notch back as far as I could."



I have contemplated this kind of modification of my flap control sectors for 

some time, but have been too lazy to pursue it. Some comments / questions:



a) Your flap sectors appear to have a different shape than mine. It would 

appear that Tri-R made some modifications to those sectors in later kits. My 

kit is number 116.



b)  My flap sectors do not have the sharp cornered forward projections with 

the bottom scoop out that yours does. Any ideas what the purpose of that is?



c) Also mine do not have the slope on the aft side of the forward notch like 

yours does. Was that a local modification?



d) I see that there is a split plastic tube guard over the bottom edge of 

the slot. What is the purpose of that?



2) ".... helps the pitch angle on approach."



By that do you mean that you can have a lower nose attitude angle for the 

same indicated airspeed by use of that additional extension of the flaps? If 

so that might just be the additional motivation that I need to make that 

added notch modification.



Right now I insist on keeping the far end of the runway in sight over the 

nose during the approach and flare which gives me a pretty flat nose 

attitude at touch down. Now with any speed less than 75 KIAS I would block 

out that over the nose picture. I usually have my engine set at 1,300 RPM + 

or - a bit during the approach once I am on glide slope and leave it set at 

that RPM to control descent rate until touch down.



If I could still have that same over the nose picture at 70 KIAS I would 

consider making that additional flap sector notch to be a worth while 

modification.



OC



===========================================================



From: Tim Yoder

Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 10:18 AM

To: 'Peter Duran'

Cc: OC Baker

Subject: Emailing: 033 (2)



Pete,



I just ran across these photos of my flap mod. Looks like I cut the new

notch back as far as I could.



OC, I mentioned this to you before. This got me 28 deg. under load and helps

the pitch angle on approach.



Tim

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ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com
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Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:25 pm Post subject: Emailing: 033 (2)

Hi OC,



My answers are below your comments/questions below; 



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bakerocb

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:18 am Post subject: Emailing: 033 (2)

7/29/2014



Hello Tim, Thanks for the detailed response. You wrote: "The pitch angle 

noticeably increases when I go to the last

notch."



Increases? Do you mean the nose goes up? That is opposite of the effect that 

I would be seeking. Let's say that right now I can just barely see the far 

end of the runway over the nose at 75 KIAS. My goal would be to decrease my 

airspeed to 70 KIAS and not have to raise the nose and lose sight of the far 

end of the runway.



Would making that additional flaps down notch modification to the flap 

sectors help me or hurt me in getting towards my goal?



Thanks,



OC



PS: I'll try to take some pictures of my flap sectors at the airport today 

and send them to you so that we can see the difference in the original shape 

of the sectors.



===========================================================

From: Tim Yoder

Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 8:24 PM

To: 'Owen Baker ' ; 'KIS-LIST MATRONICS'

Cc: 'TRICKEL MARK'

Subject: RE: Emailing: 033 (2)



Hi OC,



My answers are below your comments/questions below;



=================================================================

From: Owen Baker [mailto:bakerocb(at)cox.net]

Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 11:00 AM

To: YODER TIM; KIS-LIST MATRONICS

Cc: TRICKEL MARK

Subject: Fw: Emailing: 033 (2)



7/28/2014



Hello Tim, Thanks for the pictures and the explanation. You wrote:



1) "Looks like I cut the new notch back as far as I could."



I have contemplated this kind of modification of my flap control sectors for

some time, but have been too lazy to pursue it. Some comments / questions:



a) Your flap sectors appear to have a different shape than mine. It would

appear that Tri-R made some modifications to those sectors in later kits. My

kit is number 116.



***These are from kit #49, I don't know what yours look like.



b)  My flap sectors do not have the sharp cornered forward projections with

the bottom scoop out that yours does. Any ideas what the purpose of that is?



*** No



c) Also mine do not have the slope on the aft side of the forward notch like

yours does. Was that a local modification?



*** No, that is the way It came. I only added the last (left) notch.

I think the easy slope on the aft side of the forward notch just makes it

easier to move the handle to the first notch.?



d) I see that there is a split plastic tube guard over the bottom edge of

the slot. What is the purpose of that?



*** good observation, I forgot I did that. I was noticing that in

flight the roll pin wasn't moving smoothly, galling, due to pushing the

release button hard because of the flight load on the flaps. When the

plastic tubes wore out and it started again so I took a closer look and saw

that the roll pin slot was oriented down, you cannot see it in the photo but

it is, so I turned the roll pin horizontally and fix that problem.



2) ".... helps the pitch angle on approach."



By that do you mean that you can have a lower nose attitude angle for the

same indicated airspeed by use of that additional extension of the flaps? If

so that might just be the additional motivation that I need to make that

added notch modification.



*** Yes, The pitch angle noticeably increases when I go to the last

notch. On the ground I get the recommended 28 deg. After lifting the

trailing edge of the flaps in order to remove the slop in the system.



Right now I insist on keeping the far end of the runway in sight over the

nose during the approach and flare which gives me a pretty flat nose

attitude at touch down. Now with any speed less than 75 KIAS I would block

out that over the nose picture. I usually have my engine set at 1,300 RPM +

or - a bit during the approach once I am on glide slope and leave it set at

that RPM to control descent rate until touch down.



*** My procedure is much like yours with similar numbers, I almost

always have someone with me and my field elevation is 1400' also, I sit very

tall in the cockpit. And I doubt that I an as good a pilot as you so it is

hard to compare.



If I could still have that same over the nose picture at 70 KIAS I would

consider making that additional flap sector notch to be a worth while

modification.



*** I only did the mod because I wanted to get the book recommended

28 deg's. and I was glad I did it. I think it was Scott Stearns that

recommended trying to get mire than 28 deg. I would if I had the extra room.

I hope this helps, Tim



OC

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mantafs(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:08 am Post subject: Emailing: 033 (2)

At times the flaps added downwash on the horizontal tail pitching the nose up.  At least in many of the aircraft I have flown.  In a Diamond DA40 I trim for 80 knots with half flaps and then when I add full flaps the same trim position gives a nice 70 knots for final so has a higher alpha.  But with many aircraft you may need to pitch the nose down to keep the same speed.



Mark



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