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speedy11(at)aol.com
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 Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:33 pm Post subject: Touchy |
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Kelley,
First of all, let me apologize for including all of the emails in my reply. That was a mistake.
Secondly, perhaps I am being a bit touchy, but I consistently see the same crap on the aeroelectric list.
Someone asks for advice on a relatively simple subject and gets skewered by several people who believe they are personally responsible for teaching the writer the wrongs of his ways. Some people get off on rants implying that their ideas and/or procedures must be followed or the writer has not adequately researched the subject and made the proper decisions. It is the reason this list is dying a slow painful death.
Many of us have been around GA airplanes for 40 years (I own an aircraft maintenance company), but we may not know the best solution to a problem (or as Bob likes to think - perhaps a non-problem) especially as new innovative solutions are being tried.
From personal experience you don't like full electronic ignition. Personally I like full electronic ignition. But, when a writer asks a question about something, he/she doesn't care our individual preferences. They are interested in a response that may give them greater insight into how to solve the particular problem for their particular airplane.
The response they often get is no response at all or a response telling them how wrong they are. They aren't wrong! Just because someone decides to stray from the classical norms doesn't necessarily mean they are wrong.
Justin may have given up on this forum to glean the information he desired. Can't say I blame him. He is on the cutting edge of potential improvements. His ideas may not work - then again they may work perfectly. I understand his reasons for choosing to use two batteries for remote AK operations.
I agree with you that he may not be choosing the simplest solution, but it is his decision. He was simply asking for advice on how he might implement his decision. I'm surprised he didn't contact Paisley, Rotax and the battery manufacturer on how to best design his system instead of coming to the aeroelectric list for help (who knows, maybe he did). Nonetheless, I believe the response to him should have been something like this:
1. Contact the manufacturers and follow their advise.
2. You can probably implement your chosen equipment in this manner ...
3. However, have you considered doing this instead ...
In other words, provide advice on how his idea might be accomplished and then give him advice on other considerations (one of which might be "don't do it because ...").
You said " If the best solution was so obvious, he would also know how to implement". There may not be a best solution. You implied that in your first sentence when you said "there are a number of ways to skin a cat". Justin has chosen a way to skin the cat. It may not be the best way, but it is his way. He was asking for advice on how to implement his skinning method - not advice on whether his method is the best, or even desirable.
I find myself as frequently frustrated by responses on the aeroelectric list as I am satisfied with them.
Touchy? Perhaps.
Maybe I've become a grumpy old man.
Safe flying to all,
Stan Sutterfield
Reno Race 84
Do not archive
| Quote: | | Quote: |
For any question or problem there are a number of ways to skin the cat,
including it may not be a problem at all.
To object to folks questioning whether he needs to do what he wants is
just as valid a discussion and learning point as assuming he has
correctly parsed his situation, already knows the best solution and just
needs to know how to implement it.
If the best solution was so obvious, he would also know how to
implement. When you start incorporating the latest of everything, like
lithium batteries, electronic ignition, etc. you are on what is called
the bleeding edge for a reason.
Others like Bob and some of the rest of us have been around GA planes
for 30-40 years or more, worked our way through risk mitigation in a lot
of different environments and know what last century products work, and
what doesn't.
Some of us just don't agree on the reliability of various items. I for
one have personal experience with dual electronic mag failure which
pushes me towards having one conventional mag, but others see that
differently, even though there are some of the same differences between
auto alternators and auto ignition that change their reliability when
used in aircraft. |
|
[quote][b]
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bbradburry(at)verizon.net
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:15 am Post subject: Touchy |
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Stan,
Very well said. A similar problem with the list is when there is no response at all. This happens to me quite frequently. I suppose it would help if I had more interesting problems. :>)
Bill
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of speedy11(at)aol.com
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2014 11:31 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Touchy
Kelley,
First of all, let me apologize for including all of the emails in my reply. That was a mistake.
Secondly, perhaps I am being a bit touchy, but I consistently see the same crap on the aeroelectric list.
Someone asks for advice on a relatively simple subject and gets skewered by several people who believe they are personally responsible for teaching the writer the wrongs of his ways. Some people get off on rants implying that their ideas and/or procedures must be followed or the writer has not adequately researched the subject and made the proper decisions. It is the reason this list is dying a slow painful death.
Many of us have been around GA airplanes for 40 years (I own an aircraft maintenance company), but we may not know the best solution to a problem (or as Bob likes to think - perhaps a non-problem) especially as new innovative solutions are being tried.
>From personal experience you don't like full electronic ignition. Personally I like full electronic ignition. But, when a writer asks a question about something, he/she doesn't care our individual preferences. They are interested in a response that may give them greater insight into how to solve the particular problem for their particular airplane.
The response they often get is no response at all or a response telling them how wrong they are. They aren't wrong! Just because someone decides to stray from the classical norms doesn't necessarily mean they are wrong.
Justin may have given up on this forum to glean the information he desired. Can't say I blame him. He is on the cutting edge of potential improvements. His ideas may not work - then again they may work perfectly. I understand his reasons for choosing to use two batteries for remote AK operations.
I agree with you that he may not be choosing the simplest solution, but it is his decision. He was simply asking for advice on how he might implement his decision. I'm surprised he didn't contact Paisley, Rotax and the battery manufacturer on how to best design his system instead of coming to the aeroelectric list for help (who knows, maybe he did). Nonetheless, I believe the response to him should have been something like this:
1. Contact the manufacturers and follow their advise.
2. You can probably implement your chosen equipment in this manner ..
3. However, have you considered doing this instead ...
In other words, provide advice on how his idea might be accomplished and then give him advice on other considerations (one of which might be "don't do it because ...").
You said " If the best solution was so obvious, he would also know how to implement". There may not be a best solution. You implied that in your first sentence when you said "there are a number of ways to skin a cat". Justin has chosen a way to skin the cat. It may not be the best way, but it is his way. He was asking for advice on how to implement his skinning method - not advice on whether his method is the best, or even desirable.
I find myself as frequently frustrated by responses on the aeroelectric list as I am satisfied with them.
Touchy? Perhaps.
Maybe I've become a grumpy old man.
Safe flying to all,
Stan Sutterfield
Reno Race 84
Do not archive | Quote: | | Quote: | | For any question or problem there are a number of ways to skin the cat, including it may not be a problem at all.To object to folks questioning whether he needs to do what he wants is just as valid a discussion and learning point as assuming he has correctly parsed his situation, already knows the best solution and just needs to know how to implement it.If the best solution was so obvious, he would also know how to implement. When you start incorporating the latest of everything, like lithium batteries, electronic ignition, etc. you are on what is called For any question or problem there are a number of ways to skin the cat, |
0 | Quote: | | For any question or problem there are a number of ways to skin the cat, |
1 | Quote: | | For any question or problem there are a number of ways to skin the cat, |
2 | Quote: | | For any question or problem there are a number of ways to skin the cat, |
3 | Quote: | | For any question or problem there are a number of ways to skin the cat, |
4 | Quote: | | For any question or problem there are a number of ways to skin the cat, |
5 | Quote: | | For any question or problem there are a number of ways to skin the cat, |
6 | Quote: | | For any question or problem there are a number of ways to skin the cat, |
7 | Quote: | | For any question or problem there are a number of ways to skin the cat, |
8 | Quote: | | For any question or problem there are a number of ways to skin the cat, |
9 | Quote: | | including it may not be a problem at all. |
0 |
| Quote: | | including it may not be a problem at all. |
1 | Quote: | | including it may not be a problem at all. |
2 | Quote: | | including it may not be a problem at all. |
3 | Quote: | | including it may not be a problem at all. |
4 | Quote: | | including it may not be a problem at all. |
5 | Quote: | | including it may not be a problem at all. |
6 | Quote: | | including it may not be a problem at all. |
7 | Quote: | | including it may not be a problem at all. |
8 | Quote: | | including it may not be a problem at all. |
9 | Quote: | | To object to folks questioning whether he needs to do what he wants is |
0 | Quote: | | To object to folks questioning whether he needs to do what he wants is |
1 | Quote: | | To object to folks questioning whether he needs to do what he wants is |
2 | Quote: | | To object to folks questioning whether he needs to do what he wants is |
3 | Quote: | | To object to folks questioning whether he needs to do what he wants is |
4 | Quote: | | To object to folks questioning whether he needs to do what he wants is |
5 | Quote: | | To object to folks questioning whether he needs to do what he wants is |
6 | Quote: | | To object to folks questioning whether he needs to do what he wants is |
7 | Quote: | | To object to folks questioning whether he needs to do what he wants is |
8 | Quote: | | To object to folks questioning whether he needs to do what he wants is |
9 | Quote: | | just as valid a discussion and learning point as assuming he has |
0 | Quote: | | just as valid a discussion and learning point as assuming he has |
1 | Quote: | | just as valid a discussion and learning point as assuming he has |
2 | Quote: | | just as valid a discussion and learning point as assuming he has |
3 | Quote: | | just as valid a discussion and learning point as assuming he has |
4 | Quote: | | just as valid a discussion and learning point as assuming he has |
5 | Quote: | | just as valid a discussion and learning point as assuming he has |
6 | Quote: | | just as valid a discussion and learning point as assuming he has |
7 | Quote: | | just as valid a discussion and learning point as assuming he has |
8 | Quote: | | just as valid a discussion and learning point as assuming he has |
9 | Quote: | | correctly parsed his situation, already knows the best solution and just |
0 | Quote: | | correctly parsed his situation, already knows the best solution and just |
1
[quote][b]
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:51 am Post subject: Touchy |
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Stan,
While maybe a bit harsh, I get exactly what you're saying.
When you bring up Brownout protection, instead of getting
solutions, you get "why do you need brownout protection",
and "manufacturers should be building things tolerant of
starter-inrush brown-out events". While the fact remains,
there are systems that really should have brownout
protection and it can be a very useful thing. I could fill
a page on why brownout protection is important to me,
but nobody would want to spend the time to read through
that long enough to help with a solution. Sometimes you
just want it to be "ok" that you require it and you want
to get help with solutions. So I know what you mean.
I think if you just know some of the sticky topics going in,
maybe you can ask the pointed question and try to get
an answer from at least someone on the list. Like
"I am building a panel and absolutely require brownout
protection. I'm not interested in debating the NEED
for brownout protection, but would like to know some of
the best options for those items requiring it?"
Maybe at least that would bypass some of the frustration
causing portions of the discussion.
There are solutions out there for everything. I've been
very happy with my panel in my RV-10, and since I built
that, there are "out of the box" solutions from vendors
like TCW Tech that make things easier for the builder too.
So getting to what you need isn't impossible.
Tim
On 12/1/2014 11:30 PM, speedy11(at)aol.com wrote:
| Quote: | Kelley,
First of all, let me apologize for including all of the emails in my
reply. That was a mistake.
Secondly, perhaps I am being a bit touchy, but I consistently see the
same crap on the aeroelectric list.
Someone asks for advice on a relatively simple subject and gets skewered
by several people who believe they are personally responsible for
teaching the writer the wrongs of his ways. Some people get off on
rants implying that their ideas and/or procedures must be followed or
the writer has not adequately researched the subject and made the proper
decisions. It is the reason this list is dying a slow painful death.
Many of us have been around GA airplanes for 40 years (I own an aircraft
maintenance company), but we may not know the best solution to a problem
(or as Bob likes to think - perhaps a non-problem) especially as new
innovative solutions are being tried.
From personal experience you don't like full electronic ignition.
Personally I like full electronic ignition. But, when a writer asks a
question about something, he/she doesn't care our individual
preferences. They are interested in a response that may give them
greater insight into how to solve the particular problem for their
particular airplane.
The response they often get is no response at all or a response telling
them how wrong they are. They aren't wrong! Just because someone
decides to stray from the classical norms doesn't necessarily mean they
are wrong.
Justin may have given up on this forum to glean the information he
desired. Can't say I blame him. He is on the cutting edge of potential
improvements. His ideas may not work - then again they may work
perfectly. I understand his reasons for choosing to use two batteries
for remote AK operations.
I agree with you that he may not be choosing the simplest solution, but
it is his decision. He was simply asking for advice on how he might
implement his decision. I'm surprised he didn't contact Paisley, Rotax
and the battery manufacturer on how to best design his system instead of
coming to the aeroelectric list for help (who knows, maybe he did).
Nonetheless, I believe the response to him should have been something
like this:
1. Contact the manufacturers and follow their advise.
2. You can probably implement your chosen equipment in this manner ...
3. However, have you considered doing this instead ...
In other words, provide advice on how his idea might be accomplished and
then give him advice on other considerations (one of which might be
"don't do it because ...").
You said " If the best solution was so obvious, he would also know how
to implement". There may not be a best solution. You implied that in
your first sentence when you said "there are a number of ways to skin a
cat". Justin has chosen a way to skin the cat. It may not be the best
way, but it is his way. He was asking for advice on how to implement
his skinning method - not advice on whether his method is the best, or
even desirable.
I find myself as frequently frustrated by responses on the aeroelectric
list as I am satisfied with them.
Touchy? Perhaps.
Maybe I've become a grumpy old man.
Safe flying to all,
Stan Sutterfield
Reno Race 84
Do not archive
|
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rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:16 am Post subject: Touchy |
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Bill,
I understand your unanswered requests for help. It’s not that they are uninteresting. It’s because I don’t have an answer and I don’t want to be one of the ones cluttering up the list with speculation or proposing alternatives you don’t need.
Blue skies & tailwinds,Bob BorgerEuropa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs).Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP3705 Lynchburg Dr.Corinth, TX 76208-5331Cel: 817-992-1117rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)
On Dec 2, 2014, at 8:13 AM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry(at)verizon.net (bbradburry(at)verizon.net)> wrote:
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} <![endif]--> st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } <![endif]--> Stan,
Very well said. A similar problem with the list is when there is no response at all. This happens to me quite frequently. I suppose it would help if I had more interesting problems. :>)
Bill
[quote][b]
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deej(at)deej.net
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:32 am Post subject: Touchy |
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While I see the value of the "why" type questions, I have to agree with
Stan and Tim. I've been on the receiving end of this myself trying to
get a relatively straight answer to an electrical question only to
continually get derailed with exactly the types of comments that Tim
mentions (and on the same topic as it turns out.  )
While the "why" can make for an interesting and thought provoking
discussion, there are times when people just need a little help with
decisions that they've made for their aircraft, which may not be the
same decisions that someone else might have made. That's okay, and one
of the reasons why we are in experimental aviation.
In my case I ended up going elsewhere for help because I could not get
the help I needed on the Aeroelectric list, even after doing as Tim
suggested and indicating I didn't want to discuss the "why" any longer,
but needed help with the "how".
Even more frustrating, I brought my solution back to the List in an
attempt to share with others, and was again berated for "why do you need
to do that". I am happy to report that my solution was implemented and
has been working fine for the past several months.
Bob Nuckolls wrote, "The List is not just a place to ask, "what's 2 + 3
and where do I buy some 3's?". While I agree that the list is not
*just* a place to ask the "how", the implication from previous
discussions is that the List is a place where you can't ask the "how"
without also providing a thesis on the "why". Is this the overall
intent of the List?
Again, I can absolutely see the value of the "why" discussions, to a
point. I can also see the value in helping someone with the "how" once
they have made their decision, and am hopeful that we could accommodate
these types of discussions as well.
My hope is that this message is taken as constructive feedback, and not
as a complaint.
My half cents, fwiw,
-Dj
On 12/02/2014 09:50 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
| Quote: |
Stan,
While maybe a bit harsh, I get exactly what you're saying.
When you bring up Brownout protection, instead of getting
solutions, you get "why do you need brownout protection",
and "manufacturers should be building things tolerant of
starter-inrush brown-out events". While the fact remains,
there are systems that really should have brownout
protection and it can be a very useful thing. I could fill
a page on why brownout protection is important to me,
but nobody would want to spend the time to read through
that long enough to help with a solution. Sometimes you
just want it to be "ok" that you require it and you want
to get help with solutions. So I know what you mean.
I think if you just know some of the sticky topics going in,
maybe you can ask the pointed question and try to get
an answer from at least someone on the list. Like
"I am building a panel and absolutely require brownout
protection. I'm not interested in debating the NEED
for brownout protection, but would like to know some of
the best options for those items requiring it?"
Maybe at least that would bypass some of the frustration
causing portions of the discussion.
There are solutions out there for everything. I've been
very happy with my panel in my RV-10, and since I built
that, there are "out of the box" solutions from vendors
like TCW Tech that make things easier for the builder too.
So getting to what you need isn't impossible.
Tim
On 12/1/2014 11:30 PM, speedy11(at)aol.com wrote:
> Kelley,
> First of all, let me apologize for including all of the emails in my
> reply. That was a mistake.
> Secondly, perhaps I am being a bit touchy, but I consistently see the
> same crap on the aeroelectric list.
> Someone asks for advice on a relatively simple subject and gets skewered
> by several people who believe they are personally responsible for
> teaching the writer the wrongs of his ways. Some people get off on
> rants implying that their ideas and/or procedures must be followed or
> the writer has not adequately researched the subject and made the proper
> decisions. It is the reason this list is dying a slow painful death.
> Many of us have been around GA airplanes for 40 years (I own an aircraft
> maintenance company), but we may not know the best solution to a problem
> (or as Bob likes to think - perhaps a non-problem) especially as new
> innovative solutions are being tried.
> From personal experience you don't like full electronic ignition.
> Personally I like full electronic ignition. But, when a writer asks a
> question about something, he/she doesn't care our individual
> preferences. They are interested in a response that may give them
> greater insight into how to solve the particular problem for their
> particular airplane.
> The response they often get is no response at all or a response telling
> them how wrong they are. They aren't wrong! Just because someone
> decides to stray from the classical norms doesn't necessarily mean they
> are wrong.
> Justin may have given up on this forum to glean the information he
> desired. Can't say I blame him. He is on the cutting edge of potential
> improvements. His ideas may not work - then again they may work
> perfectly. I understand his reasons for choosing to use two batteries
> for remote AK operations.
> I agree with you that he may not be choosing the simplest solution, but
> it is his decision. He was simply asking for advice on how he might
> implement his decision. I'm surprised he didn't contact Paisley, Rotax
> and the battery manufacturer on how to best design his system instead of
> coming to the aeroelectric list for help (who knows, maybe he did).
> Nonetheless, I believe the response to him should have been something
> like this:
> 1. Contact the manufacturers and follow their advise.
> 2. You can probably implement your chosen equipment in this manner ...
> 3. However, have you considered doing this instead ...
> In other words, provide advice on how his idea might be accomplished and
> then give him advice on other considerations (one of which might be
> "don't do it because ...").
> You said " If the best solution was so obvious, he would also know how
> to implement". There may not be a best solution. You implied that in
> your first sentence when you said "there are a number of ways to skin a
> cat". Justin has chosen a way to skin the cat. It may not be the best
> way, but it is his way. He was asking for advice on how to implement
> his skinning method - not advice on whether his method is the best, or
> even desirable.
> I find myself as frequently frustrated by responses on the aeroelectric
> list as I am satisfied with them.
> Touchy? Perhaps.
> Maybe I've become a grumpy old man.
> Safe flying to all,
> Stan Sutterfield
> Reno Race 84
|
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV - VP EAA Chapter 87
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/
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user9253
Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1935
Location: Riley TWP Michigan
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:14 am Post subject: Touchy |
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There is an old saying, "Beggars can't be choosy." That applies to the
AeroElectric List where replies are posted by volunteers. If I
volunteered to help someone who then complained about my work, I would
stop giving help. There is one very knowledgeable volunteer on the
AeroElectric list who sometimes gives long winded and philosophical
responses. Sometimes his response answers my question and sometimes
not. Regardless, I appreciate it that he has volunteered his precious
time to address my issue. There are many other participants on this
forum who are also very knowledgeable. Some of them might not post a
response to a question because they are afraid of getting flamed. So
please treat everyone with respect. Do not post something that you
would not say face to face. As for a question not being answered, maybe
the question needs to be rephrased or needs to be more specific.
Joe Gores
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raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:24 am Post subject: Touchy |
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Test, please ignore.
do not archive
--
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty,
understanding and feeling are the concomitants of failure in our system.
And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness,
egotism and self-interest are the traits of success. And while men
admire the quality of the first they love the produce of the second.
-John Steinbeck, novelist, Nobel laureate (1902-1968)
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bbradburry(at)verizon.net
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:24 pm Post subject: Touchy |
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I was being “cute” with the uninteresting comment, Bob.
I suspect that everything on the list is interesting to someone on the list, although maybe not to everybody on the list. I think I get something even from the posts that I don’t quite understand and for sure from the posts counseling the need for something someone wants to do. Sometimes I agree and sometimes not, but an opinion not your own can sometimes turn on a light bulb.
When my questions get ignored I just assume that no one reading that day has a suggestion that he feels strongly about enough to post. It is disappointing though, when you really kinda want a suggestion and don’t get anything and then some fairly basic thing will get 10 hits. :>)
But I am not criticizing the list, because God knows, I am flying an airplane the parts of which would still be scattered all over the hangar if it had not been for the good and generous graces if Bob N. and the others on this list.
Bill
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Borger
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2014 9:15 AM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Touchy
Bill,
I understand your unanswered requests for help. It’s not that they are uninteresting. It’s because I don’t have an answer and I don’t want to be one of the ones cluttering up the list with speculation or proposing alternatives you don’t need.
Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs). Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)
On Dec 2, 2014, at 8:13 AM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry(at)verizon.net (bbradburry(at)verizon.net)> wrote:
Stan,
Very well said. A similar problem with the list is when there is no response at all. This happens to me quite frequently. I suppose it would help if I had more interesting problems. :>)
Bill
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Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:03 am Post subject: Touchy |
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On 12/3/2014 10:13 AM, Joe wrote:
| Quote: |
There is an old saying, "Beggars can't be choosy." That applies to
the AeroElectric List where replies are posted by volunteers. If I
volunteered to help someone who then complained about my work, I would
stop giving help. There is one very knowledgeable volunteer on the
AeroElectric list who sometimes gives long winded and philosophical
responses. Sometimes his response answers my question and sometimes
not. Regardless, I appreciate it that he has volunteered his precious
time to address my issue. There are many other participants on this
forum who are also very knowledgeable. Some of them might not post a
response to a question because they are afraid of getting flamed. So
please treat everyone with respect. Do not post something that you
would not say face to face. As for a question not being answered,
maybe the question needs to be rephrased or needs to be more specific.
Joe Gores
I'd second that. Regarding 'brownout protection' in particular; I too
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am a builder that wanted/needed such protection for my 'kitchen sink'
panel. Bob never 'liked it', always challenged it and I learned a lot
along the way but in the end, it's my plane, I fly it, I got it and am
very happy. Oh, forgot to mention, he was right on every point I can
recall not that it really matters since the points of disagreements only
involved personal operating practices, not electrons, systems or products.
But I valued every interaction with every single person, particularly
Bob, on this list. From my perspective, this is Bob's playpen, school,
blog, whatever. It's his personality and expertise that has attracted
the group of volunteers who have decided to play here. Without Bob,
this doesn't work on any useful level, at least not in it's current
form. It could be better, it could be worse but it is what it is. If
you want to play, jump in. You can contribute, you can take away, or
you can do a little of both. Or one can just walk away. It's free and
not required reading.
..just one lister's opinion, nothing personal intended and I totally
respect the OP's opinion
Bill "a couple of on/off switches would have been cheaper than TCW
brownout protection but I did it my way and I like it" Watson
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Eric M. Jones
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 565
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:48 am Post subject: Re: Touchy |
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| Quote: | He was asking for advice on how to implement his skinning method - not advice on whether his method is the best, or even desirable.
I find myself as frequently frustrated by responses on the aeroelectric list as I am satisfied with them. |
I suppose some people act like they know everything and some people do know almost everything, and frequently telling those two types apart is difficult.
Some people withhold their advice for fear that it may be thought too forward, or that they might be considered a "know-it-all". This is basically what Richard Hofstadter described in his book "Anti-Intellectualism in American Life.". "Intellect needs to be understood not as some kind of claim against the other human excellences for which a fatally high price has to be paid, but rather as a complement to them without which they cannot be fully consummated."
I find that I feel wrong when I withhold opinions (or actions) that I feel would be beneficial to a group or an individual. Do I sometimes stick my opinions in when I should be quiet? Sure. Sometimes my wife tells me that.
So if you post on the Aeroelectric, I might have a technical answer as to how something can be accomplished, or advice not to do it. Expect either or sometimes both.
Xmas story: I once knew a guy who, every holiday season would wrap up a pack of cigarettes together with a bottle of cheap fortified wine, drove down to skid row and donated these “gifts” to homeless people living in alleyways and cardboard boxes on the streets of Los Angeles....
I have to admit that I thought this was a pretty irresponsible and uncharitable idea and said so, until a mutual friend told me that the guy had been homeless on the street himself for five years, and I was certainly in no position to pass judgment on his actions. I was humbled.
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_________________
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net |
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bob.verwey(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 1:03 am Post subject: Touchy |
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Eric, nice post, kinda reminds me of the Warren Buffet quote:
*Wall Street is the only place that **people ride to in a Rolls Royce to
get advice from those who take the subway. *
Best...
Bob Verwey
On 4 December 2014 at 20:48, Eric M. Jones <emjones(at)charter.net> wrote:
[quote]
emjones(at)charter.net>
> He was asking for advice on how to implement his skinning method - not
advice on whether his method is the best, or even desirable.
> I find myself as frequently frustrated by responses on the aeroelectric
list as I am satisfied with them.
I suppose some people act like they know everything and some people do
know almost everything, and frequently telling those two types apart is
difficult.
Some people withhold their advice for fear that it may be thought too
forward, or that they might be considered a "know-it-all". This is
basically what Richard Hofstadter described in his book
"Anti-Intellectualism in American Life.". "Intellect needs to be understood
not as some kind of claim against the other human excellences for which a
fatally high price has to be paid, but rather as a complement to them
without which they cannot be fully consummated."
I find that I feel wrong when I withhold opinions (or actions) that I feel
would be beneficial to a group or an individual. Do I sometimes stick my
opinions in when I should be quiet? Sure. Sometimes my wife tells me that
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