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Warp drive hub.Very Strange

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clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:15 pm Post subject: Warp drive hub.Very Strange

My 2 cents worth again.  I haven't heard of anyone that disliked there engine or prop.Very Strange world.  Clint

 

 [quote]   

From:  kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>

Reply-To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject:  RE: Warp drive hub.

Date:  Tue, 27 Jun 2006 18:02:47 -0700 (PDT)

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>



Those are the blades I have John.



Trying to get my mind on topic again to think this in

debth.  Not always easy these days.



Wider blades grip air, like all WX tires grip the

pavement.  Narrow blades more like dragster tires.

You get a better bite with the wider blades from the

start = more static thrust and less slippage.  But the

narrow blades come into their own as you speed up and

allow the engine to spool up  better from the start.

The wider ones should run more draggy at higher speeds

and, as was said, for descent and landing.



If your tires grip and not slip, you need a lower

gear.  If your prop grips from the start, you use less

pitch to keep RPM's up.  Less pitch means the wide

cord blades will run out of pitch sooner in cruise.

Fixed pitch would theoritically like the narrow

blades.  But if you have a cockpit adjustable prop,

the wider blades might be better?



Less diameter should mean some more slip too.  Less

efficiency on the same pitch and rpm, but maybe allows

more HP from the motor.....  You'd need to add a

little pitch for the reduced diameter, so it should be

less static thrust and maybe a slight plus in cruise.



I just can´t see enough gain from reduced diameter to

equate

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:59 pm Post subject: Warp drive hub.Very Strange

Heck, I was trying to be the resident critic. 

Starting at home....   But I accept being strange.



Actually my friendly test pilot noticed it did't feel

like the right prop on the first two 15 minute

flights.  He has a IV with the same prop, but non

turbo NSI.  His does 110 mph easily.  He also tests

other aircraft and has some experience to call on.



I also see it as running into a wall after 100 mph. 

More power = not much but greater fuelflow.  I really

hoped to run into VNE before full power with the

turbo.  No way!  16 knots to go.



Kurt S.



--- Clint Bazzill <clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.com> wrote:

---------------------------------


My 2 cents worth again.  I haven't heard of anyone

that disliked there engine or prop.  Very Strange

world.  Clint



__________________________________________________

janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:02 pm Post subject: Warp drive hub.Very Strange

Lot of drag in these wee aeroplanes eh. I notice at cruise, drop the nose and it'll go easily to 110kts but big struggle to get it to VNE..What streamlining enhancements do you have Kurt? I'm still very much in the learning (FUN) area.

 

 [quote]   

From:  kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>

Reply-To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject:  RE: Warp drive hub.Very Strange

Date:  Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:58:59 -0700 (PDT)

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>



Heck, I was trying to be the resident critic.

Starting at home....   But I accept being strange.



Actually my friendly test pilot noticed it did't feel

like the right prop on the first two 15 minute

flights.  He has a IV with the same prop, but non

turbo NSI.  His does 110 mph easily.  He also tests

other aircraft and has some experience to call on.



I also see it as running into a wall after 100

kerrjohna(at)COMCAST.NET
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:28 am Post subject: Warp drive hub.Very Strange

I will share a friends dislike for his engine combination. Series V 'Fox, with Stratus E81 and IVO Magnum prop (wide chord).  With the pitch set to the recommended static rpm, climb out and cruise were nearly the same, ie 85mph. This phenominon was induced by a need to significantly reduce power to avoid over reving in cruise.

  

 After changing to a medium IVO set up he join the ranks of those who are happy.....

  

 John Kerr

  

 [quote]-------------- Original message -------------- 

From: "Clint Bazzill" <clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.com> 

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clint Bazzill"    

My 2 cents worth again.  I haven't heard of anyone that disliked there engine or prop.Very Strange world.  Clint

  

 [quote]    

From:  kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>

Reply-To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject:  RE: Warp drive hub.

Date:  Tue, 27 Jun 2006 18:02:47 -0700 (PDT)

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>



Those are the blades I have John.



Trying to get my mind on topic again to think this in

debth.  Not always easy these days.



Wider blades grip air, like all WX tires grip the

pavement.  Narrow blades more like dragster tires.

You get a better bite with the wider blades from the

start = more static thrust and less slippage.  But the

narrow blades come into their own as you speed up and

allow the engine to spool up better from the start.

The wider ones should run more draggy at higher speeds

and  , as w  uch as

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:46 am Post subject: Warp drive hub.Very Strange

Been wondering about that IVO Magnum myself.... 

Thanks for the info.  It might work as a variable

pitch, but obviously is restrictive as a fixed pitch.



Kinda confirms my theory statement of narrow cords

allowing more latitude thru slippage.



Also wondered how the Stratus works compared to the

NSI.  Would be interesting to know the +'s and -'s. 

Any other Stratus owners here?



Kurt S.  S-5/NSI turbo



--- kerrjohna(at)comcast.net wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I will share a friends dislike for his engine

 combination. Series V 'Fox, with Stratus E81 and IVO

 Magnum prop (wide chord).  With the pitch set to the

 recommended static rpm, climb out and cruise were

 nearly the same, ie 85mph. This phenominon was

 induced by a need to significantly reduce power to

 avoid over reving in cruise.

 

 After changing to a medium IVO set up he join the

 ranks of those who are happy.....

 

 John Kerr


	


__________________________________________________

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:27 am Post subject: Warp drive hub.Very Strange

Well, first keep the fun part going John!



To start with, I built in a fairing to the bottom of

the verticle stab so that the fabric does not make

that hard break to the horizontal stab enclosure.  I

also added foam into the gap between the inner ribs of

the horizontal stab and the enclosure sheet metal so

that the gap was zero with full nose up trim and less

a gap for the rest of the travel.



Those were the only drag reductions I built in.  Can´t

tell you if they helped much or not, since I have no

comparison.  Filling the Horizontal inner gap should

have helped with elevator effectiveness too, but I

don't know for sure.



I added a scoop to the radiator and gained about 9

mph.  Less in hot temps with the exhaust door open. 

Took it off and added wing strut fairings and gained

an average 10.5 mph.  They do not add up to 20 total,

but maybe a 16 mph gain together.  I can't remember my

top level speed right now, but it was nice to see. 

Still some to go.



Michel and a French friend of his did extensive work

on the wing strut fairing design and it payed off.

Don´t let Michel get away with playing dumb.  



Wheel fairings, wing strut end fairings, top and

bottom, gas cap fairings, H. tail strut fairings, jury

strut fairings, other things to go.  I'll try to

measure any improvements, if I can, for each.



That makes twice that I had to learn, then relearn not

to float.  Releasing that drag made a very noticable

change in the pattern requirements.   And if you want

to float lazily along at 65 knots or 75 mph, my Fox is

now a very quiet and fuel efficient plane.  But more

to go.  It is still working too hard past 85 knots

(100 mph) for me.



Kurt S.  S-5/NSI turbo



--- John Anderson <janderson412(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



---------------------------------


Lot of drag in these wee aeroplanes eh. I notice at

cruise, drop the nose and it'll go easily to 110kts

but big struggle to get it to VNE..What streamlining

enhancements do you have Kurt? I'm still very much in

the learning (FUN) area.



__________________________________________________

janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 1:00 pm Post subject: Warp drive hub.Very Strange

Yep, I did this too, added a profiled leading edge to start of the vert stab 

to split the flow. Guess it all helps for as I've said, up to 100kts is 

relatively easy. Hopefully after increasing the prop pitch and get the boost 

up a bit at lower RPM I might get a wee bit more..John



Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com




<smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>



Well, first keep the fun part going John!



To start with, I built in a fairing to the bottom of

the verticle stab so that the fabric does not make

that hard break to the horizontal stab enclosure.

I

also added foam into the gap between the inner ribs of

the horizontal stab and the enclosure sheet metal so

that the gap was zero with full nose up trim and less

a gap for the rest of the travel.



Those were the only drag reductions I built in.  Can´t

tell you if they helped much or not, since I have no

comparison.  Filling the Horizontal inner gap should

have helped with elevator effectiveness too, but I

don't know for sure.



I added a scoop to the radiator and gained about 9

mph.  Less in hot temps with the exhaust door open.

Took it off and added wing strut fairings and gained

an average 10.5 mph.  They do not add up to 20 total,

but maybe a 16 mph gain together.  I can't remember my

top level speed right now, but it was nice to see.

Still some to go.



Michel and a French friend of his did extensive work

on the wing strut fairing design and it payed off.

Don´t let Michel get away with playing dumb.  



Wheel fairings, wing strut end fairings, top and

bottom, gas cap fairings, H. tail strut fairings, jury

strut fairings, other things to go.  I'll try to

measure any improvements, if I can, for each.



That makes twice that I had to learn, then relearn not

to float.  Releasing that drag made a very noticable

change in the pattern requirements.   And if you want

to float lazily along at 65 knots or 75 mph, my Fox is

now a very quiet and fuel efficient plane.  But more

to go.  It is still working too hard past 85 knots

(100 mph) for me.



Kurt S.  S-5/NSI turbo



--- John Anderson <janderson412(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



---------------------------------


Lot of drag in these wee aeroplanes eh. I notice at

cruise, drop the nose and it'll go easily to 110kts

but big struggle to get it to VNE..What streamlining

enhancements do you have Kurt? I'm still very much in

the learning (FUN) area.



__________________________________________________





_________________________________________________________________

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:02 pm Post subject: Warp drive hub.Very Strange

John,



The first 85 knots is easy for me, but the next 15 to

25 is a struggle.  I have to check, but I think I top

out around 109 kts now at more than twice the fuel

flow of 85 kts.



I am wondering if my flapperons might be adjusted a

little too low and could use a few degrees up?  Other

list members said they make a big difference.  I sure

know the first notch makes 70 kts (max flap speed)

almost as draggy as 85 kts clean.



Or it may be my prop, like I said.



Kurt S.



--- John Anderson <janderson412(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Yep, I did this too, added a profiled leading edge

 to start of the vert stab 

 to split the flow. Guess it all helps for as I've

 said, up to 100kts is 

 relatively easy. Hopefully after increasing the prop

 pitch and get the boost 

 up a bit at lower RPM I might get a wee bit

 more..John


	


__________________________________________________

janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:48 pm Post subject: Warp drive hub.Very Strange

Hmmm, I originally set all my controls up with a spirit level, but then on the final setup used a electronic inclinonmeter(?spelling) and changed the flaperons quite a lot. GPS confirms ASI too. Could be that Kurt. John

 

 [quote]   

From:  kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>

Reply-To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject:  RE: Warp drive hub.Very Strange

Date:  Fri, 30 Jun 2006 13:01:58 -0700 (PDT)

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>



John,



The first 85 knots is easy for me, but the next 15 to

25 is a struggle.  I have to check, but I think I top

out around 109 kts now at more than twice the fuel

flow of 85 kts.



I am wondering if my flapperons might be adjusted a

little too low and could use a few degrees up?  Other

list members said they make a big difference.  I sure

know the first notch makes 70 kts (max flap speed)

almost as

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:50 pm Post subject: Warp drive hub.Very Strange

I just stuck by the book on mine and the rigging

turned out square on the ground and in flight, just

slow.  I used a gravity, not digital inclinometer

(?)to get it right.



I suspect some reflex of the flapperons is called for

and I can do a bit quickly thru the flap linkage.  On

the to-do list.



Thanks John,



Kurt S.



--- John Anderson <janderson412(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



---------------------------------


Hmmm, I originally set all my controls up with a

spirit level, but then on the final setup used a

electronic inclinonmeter(?spelling) and changed the

flaperons quite a lot. GPS confirms ASI too. Could be

that Kurt. John



__________________________________________________

janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:52 pm Post subject: Warp drive hub.Very Strange

I guess Kurt a bit of trial and error in the flaperon area may tell you a 

lot...Spoke to my son (my LAME and rigger). Said if it's flying wings level 

and both flapperons travel is the same it should be ok. In my early fixed 

wing days we had one C185 that was just a 'dog', from day one and nothing on 

earth would make it go..someone put it through fence in the end to nobodys 

surprise. Not suggesting you wee love machine is in that cat but I was 

flying mine this afternoon and just lower the nose in cruise a little an 110 

just like that?? And hard to slow it on approach too with the tapered 

prop... Be good if you were just down the road, we could compare..John



Reply-To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com


<smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com>



I just stuck by the book on mine and the rigging

turned out square on the ground and in flight, just

slow.  I used a gravity, not digital inclinometer

(?)to get it right.



I suspect some reflex of the flapperons is called for

and I can do a bit quickly thru the flap linkage.  On

the to-do list.



Thanks John,



Kurt S.



--- John Anderson <janderson412(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



---------------------------------


Hmmm, I originally set all my controls up with a

spirit level, but then on the final setup used a

electronic inclinonmeter(?spelling) and changed the

flaperons quite a lot. GPS confirms ASI too. Could be

that Kurt. John



__________________________________________________





_________________________________________________________________

Looking for love? Check out XtraMSN Personals 

http://xtramsn.match.com/match/mt.cfm?pg=channel&tcid=200731

kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:12 am Post subject: Warp drive hub.Very Strange

Kurt, another place to look is the horizontal stab incidence.  With my IV, I had to fly with down trim (drooped flaperons) initially for straight and level. When I left the trim in place and landed I found that they were hanging down 11*.  I raised the leading edge of the horizontal about an inch and a quarter (the IV had 2 options on the plans). And now straight and level has the flaperons in perfect trail and the speed increased as expected.

  

 John Kerr

  

 [quote]-------------- Original message -------------- 

From: "John Anderson" <janderson412(at)hotmail.com> 



[quote] --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" 

 

 I guess Kurt a bit of trial and error in the flaperon area may tell you a 

 lot...Spoke to my son (my LAME and rigger). Said if it's flying wings level 

 and both flapperons travel is the same it should be ok. In my early fixed 

 wing days we had one C185 that was just a 'dog', from day one and nothing on 

 earth would make it go..someone put it through fence in the end to nobodys 

 surprise. Not suggesting you wee love machine is in that cat but I was 

 flying mine this afternoon and just lower the nose in cruise a little an 110 

 just like that?? And hard to slow it on approach too with the tapered 

 prop... Be good if   you we re just down the road, we could compare..John 

 

 

 

 

 

 Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader 

 

 

 I just stuck by the book on mine and the rigging 

 turned out square on the ground and in flight, just 

 slow. I used a gravity, not digital inclinometer 

 (?)to get it right. 

 

 I suspect some reflex of the flapperons is called for 

 and I can do a bit quickly thru the flap linkage. On 

 the to-do list. 

 

 Thanks John, 

 

 Kurt S. 

 

 --- John Anderson wrote: 

 

 --------------------------------- 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "John Anderson" 

 Hmmm, I originally set all my controls up with a 

 spirit level, but then on the final setup used a 

 electronic incl  inonme

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