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Propeller Overhaul in Canada

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samira.h(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:54 am Post subject: Propeller Overhaul in Canada

Hi all,



I need some reliable information

on CJ propellers in Canada.



Yesterday I have learned that allegedly

the 10 years rule applies to propellers

on Yaks and Cjs in Canada under

CAR Standard 507.03 (5)(b) - Ex-military Aircraft.



I also have been told that there is no overhaul

facility left in whole Canada and TC does not accept

have it overhauled and certified in the States.



Can anybody confirm that. Your advice would be

greatly appreciated.



Thank you in advance and Happy Easter.



cheers



Elmar

dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:41 am Post subject: Propeller Overhaul in Canada

Elmar,Recently had the same question/problem come up with a customer from Vancouver BC and we discovered that yes, the prop does have a 10 year life in Canada, and no there does not seem to be any shops in Canada which are able to overhaul the J9-G1 propeller.  I also spoke to several shops here in the US and was told that they no longer do experimental propellers.  The reason seems to be that the price they need to charge to cover supplies, shop time, profit, and liability normally exceeds the cost of a new propeller which is about $3750.00.   

Doug

On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 10:53 AM, Elmar & Manuela <samira.h(at)shaw.ca (samira.h(at)shaw.ca)> wrote:

[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: Elmar & Manuela <samira.h(at)shaw.ca (samira.h(at)shaw.ca)>

 

 Hi all,

 

 I need some reliable information

 on CJ propellers in Canada.

 

 Yesterday I have learned that allegedly

 the 10 years rule applies to propellers

 on Yaks and Cjs in Canada under

 CAR Standard 507.03 (5)(b) - Ex-military Aircraft.

 

 I also have been told that there is no overhaul

 facility left in whole Canada and TC does not accept

 have it overhauled and certified in the States.

 

 Can anybody confirm that. Your advice would be

 greatly appreciated.

 

 Thank you in advance and Happy Easter.

 

 cheers

 

 Elmar

 

 

 

 ====================================

 List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

 ====================================

  FORUMS -

 _blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ====================================

 b Site -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ====================================

 

 

 

 [b]

rocketerf1(at)yahoo.ca
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:30 pm Post subject: Propeller Overhaul in Canada

Hi Elmar,

If you want to be sure and read the requirement, it is located as Standard 625 under the CARs.

It is interesting how many people don't actually follow this though.  It is clear in that Standard that we must overhaul at manufactures recommendations or 10 years which ever comes sooner, and many props the manufacturer recommends 6 years, and everyone defaults to the 10 years.  After all we never come close to the total hours.

What I'm currently scratching my head over is I can't find where it states a variable pitched propeller must be done in an overhaul shop.  The fixed pitch prop is clear; "the propeller shall be repaired by an organization approved for the overhaul of propellers.".

So if that is true (and it states elsewhere the overhaul must be done per the maintenance manual) we should be able to have our AME overhaul the prop per the maintenance manual and we are good.  You might want to challenge your AME with that and see what he/she says.

Jeff

  



     On Monday, April 6, 2015 12:40 PM, doug sapp <dougsappllc(at)gmail.com> wrote:

  

  



 Elmar,Recently had the same question/problem come up with a customer from Vancouver BC and we discovered that yes, the prop does have a 10 year life in Canada, and no there does not seem to be any shops in Canada which are able to overhaul the J9-G1 propeller.  I also spoke to several shops here in the US and was told that they no longer do experimental propellers.  The reason seems to be that the price they need to charge to cover supplies, shop time, profit, and liability normally exceeds the cost of a new propeller which is about $3750.00.   

Doug

On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 10:53 AM, Elmar & Manuela <samira.h(at)shaw.ca (samira.h(at)shaw.ca)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Yak-List message posted by: Elmar & Manuela <samira.h(at)shaw.ca (samira.h(at)shaw.ca)>

 

 Hi all,

 

 I need some reliable information

 on CJ propellers in Canada.

 

 Yesterday I have learned that allegedly

 the 10 years rule applies to propellers

 on Yaks and Cjs in Canada under

 CAR Standard 507.03 (5)(b) - Ex-military Aircraft.

 

 I also have been told that there is no overhaul

 facility left in whole Canada and TC does not accept

 have it overhauled and certified in the States.

 

 Can anybody confirm that. Your advice would be

 greatly appreciated.

 

 Thank you in advance and Happy Easter.

 

 cheers

 

 Elmar

 

 

 

 ====================================

 List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

 ====================================

  FORUMS -

 _blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ====================================

 b Site -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ====================================

 

 

 

 



et="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

el="nofollow">http://forums.matronics.com

_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	




  

 

  



 [quote][b]

samira.h(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:59 pm Post subject: Propeller Overhaul in Canada

Hi Jeff & Doug,



thank you very much for your postings,

greatly appreciated.



There is one intriguing question: How do

I know when buying a "brand-new"

propeller that is it actually new and

not already 10 or more years since

date of manufacturing. I was told that

it is also the shelf life what expires, is

that true or merely scaremongering?



And what about those guys?



http://www.canadianpropeller.com/maintenance.htm



Thank you again.



cheers



Elmar

dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:30 pm Post subject: Propeller Overhaul in Canada

I can't quote chapter and verse and I very well may be wrong but it has always been my understanding that it is from the date of installation. If it was from date of mfg I would think that many of the CJs previously imported from China into Canada would have run into this problem during the licensing and certification process and we would have heard about any "shelf life" issues years ago.



Doug

On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 4:58 PM, Elmar & Manuela <samira.h(at)shaw.ca (samira.h(at)shaw.ca)> wrote:

[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: Elmar & Manuela <samira.h(at)shaw.ca (samira.h(at)shaw.ca)>

 

 Hi Jeff & Doug,

 

 thank you very much for your postings,

 greatly appreciated.

 

 There is one intriguing question: How do

 I know when buying a "brand-new"

 propeller that is it actually new and

 not already 10 or more years since

 date of manufacturing. I was told that

 it is also the shelf life what expires, is

 that true or merely scaremongering?

 

 And what about those guys?

 

 http://www.canadianpropeller.com/maintenance.htm

 

 Thank you again.

 

 cheers

 

 Elmar

 

 

 

 ====================================

 List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

 ====================================

  FORUMS -

 _blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ====================================

 b Site -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ====================================

 

 

 

 [b]

rocketerf1(at)yahoo.ca
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:12 pm Post subject: Propeller Overhaul in Canada

Hi Elmar,



That is an intriguing question.  I have a friend who bought a propeller and had it sitting for two years. Brand new and still took a two year hit, but I think that had more to do with the paperwork than the prop.  If he would have shipped the prop to his house then handed it to the Ame the situation may have been different. Again a question for your Ame who has to sign the for the prop install.



I've used both prop works and western prop. Prop works did the work on my f1rocket prop and I was able to work with them on the assembly and install. Seemed like reasonable enough guys.



Jeff



Sent from my iPad



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Apr 6, 2015, at 5:58 PM, Elmar & Manuela <samira.h(at)shaw.ca> wrote:

 

 

 

 Hi Jeff & Doug,

 

 thank you very much for your postings,

 greatly appreciated.

 

 There is one intriguing question: How do

 I know when buying a "brand-new"

 propeller that is it actually new and

 not already 10 or more years since

 date of manufacturing. I was told that

 it is also the shelf life what expires, is

 that true or merely scaremongering?

 

 And what about those guys?

 

 http://www.canadianpropeller.com/maintenance.htm

 

 Thank you again.

 

 cheers

 

 Elmar

wlannon(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:29 pm Post subject: Propeller Overhaul in Canada

Jeff;

  

 I think you have misunderstood the prop overhaul info.

 It is Std. 625, App.C – Out of Phase Tasks.   You have quoted  Para. 5 (Variable Pitch) correctly but assumed incorrectly that, since it does  not specifically state “by an approved organization etc.” it can be overhauled  by an AME.  That is not the case.

  

 Para. 6 – Fixed pitch propellors can be inspected for defects and returned  to service by an AME unless he determines that it requires repair of any  type.  In which case it must be done by an overhaul facility.  



   



  Walt



  

   From: Jeff Deuchar (rocketerf1(at)yahoo.ca) 

 Sent: Monday, April 06, 2015 1:30 PM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Re: Propeller Overhaul in  Canada

  



   Hi Elmar,

 



 If you want to be sure and read the  requirement, it is located as Standard 625 under the CARs.

 



 It is interesting how many people don't  actually follow this though.  It is clear in that Standard that we must  overhaul at manufactures recommendations or 10 years which ever comes sooner,  and many props the manufacturer recommends 6 years, and everyone defaults to the  10 years.  After all we never come close to the total hours.

 



 What I'm currently scratching my head over is  I can't find where it states a variable pitched propeller must be done in an  overhaul shop.  The fixed pitch prop is clear; "the propeller shall be  repaired by an organization approved for the overhaul of  propellers.".

 



 So if that is true (and it states elsewhere  the overhaul must be done per the maintenance manual) we should be able to have  our AME overhaul the prop per the maintenance manual and we are good.  You  might want to challenge your AME with that and see what he/she  says.

 



 Jeff

  

 

    On Monday, April 6, 2015 12:40 PM, doug  sapp <dougsappllc(at)gmail.com> wrote:



   Elmar,  Recently had the same question/problem come up with a customer from  Vancouver BC and we discovered that yes, the prop does have a 10 year life in  Canada, and no there does not seem to be any shops in Canada which are able to  overhaul the J9-G1 propeller.  I also spoke to several shops here in the US  and was told that they no longer do experimental propellers.  The reason  seems to be that the price they need to charge to cover supplies, shop time,  profit, and liability normally exceeds the cost of a new propeller which is  about $3750.00.   

  

 Doug

  

  



   

 On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 10:53 AM, Elmar &  Manuela <samira.h(at)shaw.ca (samira.h(at)shaw.ca)>  wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Yak-List message posted by: Elmar & Manuela <samira.h(at)shaw.ca (samira.h(at)shaw.ca)>



Hi    all,



I need some reliable information

on CJ propellers in    Canada.



Yesterday I have learned that allegedly

the 10 years rule    applies to propellers

on Yaks and Cjs in Canada under

CAR Standard    507.03 (5)(b) - Ex-military Aircraft.



I also have been told that there    is no overhaul

facility left in whole Canada and TC does not accept

have    it overhauled and certified in the States.



Can anybody confirm that.    Your advice would be

greatly appreciated.



Thank you in advance and    Happy    Easter.



cheers



Elmar



===========

List"    target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

====================================

FORUMS    -

_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

===========

b    Site -

          -Matt Dralle,    List    Admin.

target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

====================================



	


  



[quote]



et="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

el="nofollow">http://forums.matronics.com

_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.matronics.com/contribution







href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

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[b]

wlannon(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:46 pm Post subject: Propeller Overhaul in Canada

Doug;

  

 You are correct it is from date of installation. 

  

 Walt

    

  From: doug sapp (dougsappllc(at)gmail.com) 

 Sent: Monday, April 06, 2015 5:29 PM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Re: Re: Propeller Overhaul in  Canada

  



  I can't quote chapter and verse and I very well may be wrong but it  has always been my understanding that it is from the date of installation. If it  was from date of mfg I would think that many of the CJs previously imported from  China into Canada would have run into this problem during the licensing and  certification process and we would have heard about any "shelf life" issues  years ago.   

 Doug



   

 On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 4:58 PM, Elmar & Manuela <samira.h(at)shaw.ca (samira.h(at)shaw.ca)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Yak-List message posted by: Elmar & Manuela <samira.h(at)shaw.ca (samira.h(at)shaw.ca)>



Hi Jeff & Doug,



thank    you very much for your postings,

greatly appreciated.



There is one    intriguing question: How do

I know when buying a "brand-new"

propeller    that is it actually new and

not already 10 or more years since

date of    manufacturing. I was told that

it is also the shelf life what expires,    is

that true or merely scaremongering?



And what about those    guys?



http://www.canadianpropeller.com/maintenance.htm



Thank    you    again.



cheers



Elmar



===========

List"    target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

====================================

FORUMS    -

_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

===========

b    Site -

          -Matt Dralle,    List    Admin.

target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

====================================



	


  



[quote]



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

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[b]

wlannon(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:01 pm Post subject: Propeller Overhaul in Canada

Further to my last:-------

  

 Some may think the prop overhaul requirements do not apply to “Special C of  A” category aircraft and they would be right BUT only for Amateur Built and  Owner Maintenance.

  

 Walt 

  

    

  From: Walter Lannon (wlannon(at)shaw.ca) 

 Sent: Monday, April 06, 2015 8:28 PM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Re: Propeller Overhaul in  Canada

  



    Jeff;

  

 I think you have misunderstood the prop overhaul info.

 It is Std. 625, App.C – Out of Phase Tasks.   You have quoted  Para. 5 (Variable Pitch) correctly but assumed incorrectly that, since it does  not specifically state “by an approved organization etc.” it can be overhauled  by an AME.  That is not the case.

  

 Para. 6 – Fixed pitch propellors can be inspected for defects and returned  to service by an AME unless he determines that it requires repair of any  type.  In which case it must be done by an overhaul facility.  



   



  Walt



  

   From: Jeff Deuchar (rocketerf1(at)yahoo.ca) 

 Sent: Monday, April 06, 2015 1:30 PM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Re: Propeller Overhaul in  Canada

  



   Hi Elmar,

 



 If you want to be sure and read the  requirement, it is located as Standard 625 under the CARs.

 



 It is interesting how many people don't  actually follow this though.  It is clear in that Standard that we must  overhaul at manufactures recommendations or 10 years which ever comes sooner,  and many props the manufacturer recommends 6 years, and everyone defaults to the  10 years.  After all we never come close to the total hours.

 



 What I'm currently scratching my head over is  I can't find where it states a variable pitched propeller must be done in an  overhaul shop.  The fixed pitch prop is clear; "the propeller shall be  repaired by an organization approved for the overhaul of  propellers.".

 



 So if that is true (and it states elsewhere  the overhaul must be done per the maintenance manual) we should be able to have  our AME overhaul the prop per the maintenance manual and we are good.  You  might want to challenge your AME with that and see what he/she  says.

 



 Jeff

  

 

    On Monday, April 6, 2015 12:40 PM, doug  sapp <dougsappllc(at)gmail.com> wrote:



   Elmar,  Recently had the same question/problem come up with a customer from  Vancouver BC and we discovered that yes, the prop does have a 10 year life in  Canada, and no there does not seem to be any shops in Canada which are able to  overhaul the J9-G1 propeller.  I also spoke to several shops here in the US  and was told that they no longer do experimental propellers.  The reason  seems to be that the price they need to charge to cover supplies, shop time,  profit, and liability normally exceeds the cost of a new propeller which is  about $3750.00.   

  

 Doug

  

  



   

 On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 10:53 AM, Elmar &  Manuela <samira.h(at)shaw.ca (samira.h(at)shaw.ca)>  wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Yak-List message posted by: Elmar & Manuela <samira.h(at)shaw.ca (samira.h(at)shaw.ca)>



Hi    all,



I need some reliable information

on CJ propellers in    Canada.



Yesterday I have learned that allegedly

the 10 years rule    applies to propellers

on Yaks and Cjs in Canada under

CAR Standard    507.03 (5)(b) - Ex-military Aircraft.



I also have been told that there    is no overhaul

facility left in whole Canada and TC does not accept

have    it overhauled and certified in the States.



Can anybody confirm that.    Your advice would be

greatly appreciated.



Thank you in advance and    Happy    Easter.



cheers



Elmar



===========

List"    target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

====================================

FORUMS    -

_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

===========

b    Site -

          -Matt Dralle,    List    Admin.

target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

====================================



	


  



[quote]



et="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

el="nofollow">http://forums.matronics.com

_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.matronics.com/contribution







href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

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[b]

rocketerf1(at)yahoo.ca
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:26 am Post subject: Propeller Overhaul in Canada

Thanks Walt,

I'm just a beginner at this and the CAR's always get me as they have so many sections.  Took me forever just to find that section.  Do you know the paragraph that states the Variable Pitch must be done by an approved overhaul organization?  I can't find it anywhere.  The fixed pitch was easy.

Jeff 

  



     On Monday, April 6, 2015 10:08 PM, Walter Lannon <wlannon(at)shaw.ca> wrote:

  

  



     Further to my last:-------

  

 Some may think the prop overhaul requirements do not apply to “Special C of  A” category aircraft and they would be right BUT only for Amateur Built and  Owner Maintenance.

  

 Walt 

  

    

  From: Walter Lannon (wlannon(at)shaw.ca) 

 Sent: Monday, April 06, 2015 8:28 PM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Re: Propeller Overhaul in  Canada

  



    Jeff;

  

 I think you have misunderstood the prop overhaul info.

 It is Std. 625, App.C – Out of Phase Tasks.   You have quoted  Para. 5 (Variable Pitch) correctly but assumed incorrectly that, since it does  not specifically state “by an approved organization etc.” it can be overhauled  by an AME.  That is not the case.

  

 Para. 6 – Fixed pitch propellors can be inspected for defects and returned  to service by an AME unless he determines that it requires repair of any  type.  In which case it must be done by an overhaul facility.  



   



  Walt



  

   From: Jeff Deuchar (rocketerf1(at)yahoo.ca) 

 Sent: Monday, April 06, 2015 1:30 PM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Re: Propeller Overhaul in  Canada

  



   Hi Elmar,

 



 If you want to be sure and read the  requirement, it is located as Standard 625 under the CARs.

 



 It is interesting how many people don't  actually follow this though.  It is clear in that Standard that we must  overhaul at manufactures recommendations or 10 years which ever comes sooner,  and many props the manufacturer recommends 6 years, and everyone defaults to the  10 years.  After all we never come close to the total hours.

 



 What I'm currently scratching my head over is  I can't find where it states a variable pitched propeller must be done in an  overhaul shop.  The fixed pitch prop is clear; "the propeller shall be  repaired by an organization approved for the overhaul of  propellers.".

 



 So if that is true (and it states elsewhere  the overhaul must be done per the maintenance manual) we should be able to have  our AME overhaul the prop per the maintenance manual and we are good.  You  might want to challenge your AME with that and see what he/she  says.

 



 Jeff

  

 

    On Monday, April 6, 2015 12:40 PM, doug  sapp <dougsappllc(at)gmail.com> wrote:



   Elmar,  Recently had the same question/problem come up with a customer from  Vancouver BC and we discovered that yes, the prop does have a 10 year life in  Canada, and no there does not seem to be any shops in Canada which are able to  overhaul the J9-G1 propeller.  I also spoke to several shops here in the US  and was told that they no longer do experimental propellers.  The reason  seems to be that the price they need to charge to cover supplies, shop time,  profit, and liability normally exceeds the cost of a new propeller which is  about $3750.00.   

  

 Doug

  

  



   

 On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 10:53 AM, Elmar &  Manuela <samira.h(at)shaw.ca (samira.h(at)shaw.ca)>  wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Yak-List message posted by: Elmar & Manuela <samira.h(at)shaw.ca (samira.h(at)shaw.ca)>



Hi    all,



I need some reliable information

on CJ propellers in    Canada.



Yesterday I have learned that allegedly

the 10 years rule    applies to propellers

on Yaks and Cjs in Canada under

CAR Standard    507.03 (5)(b) - Ex-military Aircraft.



I also have been told that there    is no overhaul

facility left in whole Canada and TC does not accept

have    it overhauled and certified in the States.



Can anybody confirm that.    Your advice would be

greatly appreciated.



Thank you in advance and    Happy    Easter.



cheers



Elmar



===========

List"    target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

====================================

FORUMS    -

_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

===========

b    Site -

          -Matt Dralle,    List    Admin.

target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

====================================



	


  



 	  Quote: 	
		  



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samira.h(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:54 pm Post subject: Propeller Overhaul in Canada

Hi Jeff,



you might want to give these guys a

call, they might be able to help you

out having your CJ propeller overhauled

within Canada.



http://www.hopeaero.com/



All the best.



cheers



Elmar

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