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Data acquisition tools?

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paulf(at)hughes.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:27 am Post subject: Data acquisition tools?

Our local EAA chapter is looking to invest in something that can do     data acquisition on a flying aircraft.Â  I figured this group would     be a good place to start.Â  Technology in this area seems to be     moving quickly, so it seems like there has to be a valid solution     that we could try.

     

     What we'd like is something we could temporarily mount in the engine     compartment, gather data, and then extract the data after the     flight.Â  We don't think we need to have real time information in the     cockpit, since this would be a diagnostic tool, not a flight     management tool.

     

     Here's some of the things we've talked about:

            temperature probes - able to read temperatures from ambient         (maybe looking for carb ice), up through oil temperatures         (~250F), and maybe up to cylinder temps (~450F).Â  

              
pressure probes - able to measure manifold pressure, air         pressure inside the cowl top and bottom       
Volt/amp probes - to diagnose in flight electrical issues

              
Vibration probes - not sure how we would use this, but         something we thought ought to be on the list       
Others?

                 

I'm guessing we'd like something that can record 4-8 channels of       data.Â  I'm not sure where the price points are, but we'd like more       than two and probably less than 20!Â  Also if multiple tools are       needed (one for temperature, another for pressure for example),       that would be fine as well.Â  We're not Boeing - just an EAA       chapter working on homebuilt airplanes, so we don't need the top       of the line solution.Â  But if the Aeroelectric mailing list has       taught me anything, it is the value of having accurate data,Â  so       we'd like something reliable.

          

What do you all think?

          

Thanks in advance for any opinions!

          

Paul A. Fisher

       Q-200 N17PF

       RV7A N18PF

           [quote][b]

yellowduckduo(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:00 am Post subject: Data acquisition tools?

http://www.dataq.com/products/di-145/#ordernow

That is about the best deal I've seen. Much cheaper and easier than what 

I use.  The software for display and analysis is almost more important 

than what hardware you select.

Ken



On 10/06/2015 11:25 AM, Paul A. Fisher wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Our local EAA chapter is looking to invest in something that can do 

 data acquisition on a flying aircraft.  I figured this group would be 

 a good place to start.  Technology in this area seems to be moving 

 quickly, so it seems like there has to be a valid solution that we 

 could try.



 What we'd like is something we could temporarily mount in the engine 

 compartment, gather data, and then extract the data after the flight.  

 We don't think we need to have real time information in the cockpit, 

 since this would be a diagnostic tool, not a flight management tool.



 Here's some of the things we've talked about:



  1. temperature probes - able to read temperatures from ambient (maybe

     looking for carb ice), up through oil temperatures (~250F), and

     maybe up to cylinder temps (~450F).

  2. pressure probes - able to measure manifold pressure, air pressure

     inside the cowl top and bottom

  3. Volt/amp probes - to diagnose in flight electrical issues

  4. Vibration probes - not sure how we would use this, but something

     we thought ought to be on the list

  5. Others?



 I'm guessing we'd like something that can record 4-8 channels of 

 data.  I'm not sure where the price points are, but we'd like more 

 than two and probably less than 20!  Also if multiple tools are needed 

 (one for temperature, another for pressure for example), that would be 

 fine as well.  We're not Boeing - just an EAA chapter working on 

 homebuilt airplanes, so we don't need the top of the line solution.  

 But if the Aeroelectric mailing list has taught me anything, it is the 

 value of having accurate data,  so we'd like something reliable.



 What do you all think?



 Thanks in advance for any opinions!



 Paul A. Fisher

 Q-200 N17PF

 RV7A N18PF



 *

 *

kjashton(at)vnet.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:27 am Post subject: Data acquisition tools?

Most of these parameters could be measured by conventional instruments.  Try this search in google images for measuring cowl pressures:    site:vansairforce.com piccolo tubes horton

-kent



On Jun 10, 2015, at 11:25 AM, Paul A. Fisher <paulf(at)hughes.net (paulf(at)hughes.net)> wrote:

[quote]                    Our local EAA chapter is looking to invest in something that can do     data acquisition on a flying aircraft.  I figured this group would     be a good place to start.  Technology in this area seems to be     moving quickly, so it seems like there has to be a valid solution     that we could try.

     

     What we'd like is something we could temporarily mount in the engine     compartment, gather data, and then extract the data after the     flight.  We don't think we need to have real time information in the     cockpit, since this would be a diagnostic tool, not a flight     management tool.

     

     Here's some of the things we've talked about:

            temperature probes - able to read temperatures from ambient         (maybe looking for carb ice), up through oil temperatures         (~250F), and maybe up to cylinder temps (~450F).  

              
pressure probes - able to measure manifold pressure, air         pressure inside the cowl top and bottom       
Volt/amp probes - to diagnose in flight electrical issues

              
Vibration probes - not sure how we would use this, but         something we thought ought to be on the list       
Others?

                 

I'm guessing we'd like something that can record 4-8 channels of       data.  I'm not sure where the price points are, but we'd like more       than two and probably less than 20!  Also if multiple tools are       needed (one for temperature, another for pressure for example),       that would be fine as well.  We're not Boeing - just an EAA       chapter working on homebuilt airplanes, so we don't need the top       of the line solution.  But if the Aeroelectric mailing list has       taught me anything, it is the value of having accurate data,  so       we'd like something reliable.

          

What do you all think?

          

Thanks in advance for any opinions!

          

Paul A. Fisher

       Q-200 N17PF

       RV7A N18PF

            	  Quote: 	
		  

	


[b]

paulf(at)hughes.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:11 am Post subject: Data acquisition tools?

Thanks for the pointer.  This looks promising!

  - Paul



On 6/10/2015 10:59 AM, C&K wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 http://www.dataq.com/products/di-145/#ordernow

 That is about the best deal I've seen. Much cheaper and easier than 

 what I use.  The software for display and analysis is almost more 

 important than what hardware you select.

 Ken

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:50 pm Post subject: Data acquisition tools?

At 10:25 AM 6/10/2015, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Our local EAA chapter is looking to invest in something that can do data acquisition on a flying aircraft.Â  I figured this group would be a good place to start.Â  Technology in this area seems to be moving quickly, so it seems like there has to be a valid solution that we could try. 	




    Take a look at this product . . .



  http://tinyurl.com/n3roz5z



    I've used perhaps a dozen different pc base DAS

    products over the last 20 years. Every year you

    can do more for less.



    This particular offering comes with an excellent

    graphical user interface to boot!



    The downside is that while it records a LOT of

    data channels, it is hardware limited to 0-5 volt

    analog inputs. This means that for most measurements

    you'll need to craft some signal conditioning.



    Somewhere in the archives, I have a 6 or 8 channel

    amplifier board that mounts instrumentation amps

    and a component 'patch' area to install components

    that set gain and frequency roll off. The instrumentation

    amps even let you read 50mv, high-side shunts.



    I'll see if I can find it . . .



    I used a similar system to record some strain-gage

    data on a trim system failure investigation back

    about 1992. That DAS cost $100 and didn't have

    a GUI . . . had to massage the data in Excel/AutoCAD

    In this case, the singing and dancing side of

    the DAS hardware and software is dirt cheap.

    There will be some dish washing to take care

    of before it's a broadly useful system.    



 

 

   Bob . . .    [quote][b]

paulf(at)hughes.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:27 pm Post subject: Data acquisition tools?

Thanks Bob.  I would be interested if you find your amplifier board     description.  This looks cheap enough to buy just to play with it to     see what it can do!

     

      - Paul

     

     On 6/11/2015 3:49 PM, Robert L.       Nuckolls, III wrote:

     

     [quote]       At 10:25 AM 6/10/2015, you wrote:

               	  Quote: 	
		  Our           local EAA chapter is looking           to invest in something that can do data acquisition on a           flying           aircraft.Â  I figured this group would be a good place to           start.Â  Technology in this area seems to be moving quickly,           so it           seems like there has to be a valid solution that we could           try. 	
       

       

          Take a look at this product . . .

       

                http://tinyurl.com/n3roz5z

       

          I've used perhaps a dozen different pc base DAS

          products over the last 20 years. Every year you

          can do more for less.

       

          This particular offering comes with an excellent

          graphical user interface to boot!

       

          The downside is that while it records a LOT of

          data channels, it is hardware limited to 0-5 volt

          analog inputs. This means that for most measurements

          you'll need to craft some signal conditioning.

       

          Somewhere in the archives, I have a 6 or 8 channel

          amplifier board that mounts instrumentation amps

          and a component 'patch' area to install components

          that set gain and frequency roll off. The       instrumentation

          amps even let you read 50mv, high-side shunts.

       

          I'll see if I can find it . . .

       

          I used a similar system to record some strain-gage

          data on a trim system failure investigation back

          about 1992. That DAS cost $100 and didn't have

          a GUI . . . had to massage the data in Excel/AutoCAD

          In this case, the singing and dancing side of

          the DAS hardware and software is dirt cheap.

          There will be some dish washing to take care

          of before it's a broadly useful system.          

       

       

                

             Bob . . .       

     [b]

ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:52 pm Post subject: Data acquisition tools?

On 6/11/2015 3:49 PM, Robert L.       Nuckolls, III wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		         At 10:25 AM 6/10/2015, you wrote:

               	  Quote: 	
		  Our           local EAA chapter is looking           to invest in something that can do data acquisition on a           flying           aircraft.Â  I figured this group would be a good place to           start.Â  Technology in this area seems to be moving quickly,           so it           seems like there has to be a valid solution that we could           try. 	
       

       

          Take a look at this product . . .

       

                http://tinyurl.com/n3roz5z

       

          I've used perhaps a dozen different pc base DAS

          products over the last 20 years. Every year you

          can do more for less.

       

          This particular offering comes with an excellent

          graphical user interface to boot!

       

          The downside is that while it records a LOT of

          data channels, it is hardware limited to 0-5 volt

          analog inputs. This means that for most measurements

          you'll need to craft some signal conditioning.

       

          Somewhere in the archives, I have a 6 or 8 channel

          amplifier board that mounts instrumentation amps

          and a component 'patch' area to install components

          that set gain and frequency roll off. The       instrumentation

          amps even let you read 50mv, high-side shunts.

       

          I'll see if I can find it . . .

       

          I used a similar system to record some strain-gage

          data on a trim system failure investigation back

          about 1992. That DAS cost $100 and didn't have

          a GUI . . . had to massage the data in Excel/AutoCAD

          In this case, the singing and dancing side of

          the DAS hardware and software is dirt cheap.

          There will be some dish washing to take care

          of before it's a broadly useful system.          

       

       

                

             Bob . . .       

     	
     From down under:

     

     http://geoffg.net/tft-maximite.html

     (lots of variations, too, with/without a screen)

     

     and from around there:

     

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/280916642088?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

     

     Haven't used either one, but the Maximite is being used as an engine     monitor by an Aussie running a rotary engine. I've got one of the     ebay usb stick DACs, but haven't had time to actually play with it.     Looks pretty easy to use with an android tablet, which is why I went     ahead & bought one.

     

     Charlie

      [quote][b]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 6:01 am Post subject: Data acquisition tools?

At 04:25 PM 6/11/2015, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Thanks Bob.  I would be interested if you find your amplifier board description.  This looks cheap enough to buy just to play with it to see what it can do! 	


    You got that right. In fact, even if I can't

    find the original (I think it had a d-sub

    input and ribbon cable output to my $100

    fast-das) I think I'll whip out another version

    with a hole pattern that will accept that $15

    eBay product. 



    If your guys are willing to put up the hardware

    with wings, I'll put up the electron-pushers.

    This is possibly the beginnings of a nice

    article for KP.



    I've done a lot of this kind of thing . . . on

    other people's million dollar airplanes. Given

    that I don't have ready access to OBAM aircraft,

    it's a rarer opportunity to exploit the trickle-down

    possibilities.



 

   Bob . . .    [quote][b]

paulf(at)hughes.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 2:00 pm Post subject: Data acquisition tools?

I'm sure we can find "hardware with wings"!  I've been chasing hot     oil temperatures lately, so I have a vested interest in this - which     is why I volunteered to investigate tools for our chapter.  If we     could make a KP article out of it that would help others, that would     be even better!

     

     Let me know how (if) you would like to proceed.

     

      - Paul

     

     On 6/12/2015 6:59 AM, Robert L.       Nuckolls, III wrote:

     

     [quote]       At 04:25 PM 6/11/2015, you wrote:

               	  Quote: 	
		  Thanks           Bob.  I would be           interested if you find your amplifier board description.  This           looks           cheap enough to buy just to play with it to see what it can           do! 	
       

          You got that right. In fact, even if I can't

          find the original (I think it had a d-sub

          input and ribbon cable output to my $100

          fast-das) I think I'll whip out another version

          with a hole pattern that will accept that $15

          eBay product. 

       

          If your guys are willing to put up the hardware

          with wings, I'll put up the electron-pushers.

          This is possibly the beginnings of a nice

          article for KP.

       

          I've done a lot of this kind of thing . . . on

          other people's million dollar airplanes. Given

          that I don't have ready access to OBAM aircraft,

          it's a rarer opportunity to exploit the         trickle-down

            possibilities.

         

                

             Bob . . .               	  Quote: 	
		  

	
     [b]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:16 pm Post subject: Data acquisition tools?

At 04:58 PM 6/12/2015, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I'm sure we can find "hardware with wings"!  I've been chasing hot oil temperatures lately, so I have a vested interest in this - which is why I volunteered to investigate tools for our chapter.  If we could make a KP article out of it that would help others, that would be even better!



 Let me know how (if) you would like to proceed. 	


   I've got one of those pic-stix around here

   somewhere. It's embedded in some tool I built

   a couple years ago. Ordered another one 

   just to make sure I'll have one handy to

   get the pin-out dimensions. I can put a matching

   pattern on a 'motor board' that mounts the

   signal conditioning and d-sub interface.



   I'm thinking about two, balanced inputs

   capable of reading small signals on a large

   common mode . . . like ammeter shunts. 

   Two channels of K thermocouple inputs. A couple

   of 0-5v inputs. It would be helpful to develop

   a list of probable measurement tasks . . . make

   sure we have an signal input port tailored

   to task. 

   



 

 

   Bob . . .     [quote][b]

yellowduckduo(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 3:37 am Post subject: Data acquisition tools?

I believe this USB stick has to be connected to a laptop to record data.

Is there a cheap dedicated USB port recorder that would record a few 

hours of data for later analysis on a laptop? Perhaps even a loop 

recorder that could be pulled after an event or for trend monitoring. 

Occasionally I would have liked to look at the data from a previous flight.

In my case, I already have the data that interests me available from the 

EIS via an RS232 port but it is not recorded unless I run my laptop in 

flight which is not practical on every flight.  I do have a cobbled 

together standalone data recorder for temporary specific items. Data 

display and analysis is quite time consuming with the affordable or free 

software that I'm aware of though.

Ken

On 14/06/2015 12:14 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   At 04:58 PM 6/12/2015, you wrote:

> I'm sure we can find "hardware with wings"!  I've been chasing hot 

> oil temperatures lately, so I have a vested interest in this - which 

> is why I volunteered to investigate tools for our chapter.  If we 

> could make a KP article out of it that would help others, that would 

> be even better!

>

> Let me know how (if) you would like to proceed.

   I've got one of those pic-stix around here

   somewhere. It's embedded in some tool I built

   a couple years ago. Ordered another one

   just to make sure I'll have one handy to

   get the pin-out dimensions. I can put a matching

   pattern on a 'motor board' that mounts the

   signal conditioning and d-sub interface.

   I'm thinking about two, balanced inputs

   capable of reading small signals on a large

   common mode . . . like ammeter shunts.

   Two channels of K thermocouple inputs. A couple

   of 0-5v inputs. It would be helpful to develop

   a list of probable measurement tasks . . . make

   sure we have an signal input port tailored

   to task.

   Bob . . .

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:21 am Post subject: Data acquisition tools?

At 06:35 AM 6/14/2015, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: C&K <yellowduckduo(at)gmail.com>



 I believe this USB stick has to be connected to a laptop to record data. 	


   Yes . . .



  	  Quote: 	
		  Is there a cheap dedicated USB port recorder that would record a few hours of data for later analysis on a laptop? Perhaps even a loop recorder that could be pulled after an event or for trend monitoring. Occasionally I would have liked to look at the data from a previous flight.

 	


   It depends  . . . 



   There are stand-alone "USB Data Loggers"

   tailored to a variety of tasks. E.g.



  http://tinyurl.com/q2o97dd



   depending on the kind of signal, conditioning

   of that signal necessary to port it to the data

   logger (the range, resolution, sample rate)

   and number of channels, the general answer to

   your question is yes.



 

   Bob . . .    [quote][b]

pestar

Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 61
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: Data acquisition tools?

Got to http://www.ikalogic.com/ and have a look.  I use the Scanalogic-2 20 MHz Logic Analyzer in my hangar for monitoring and analysing data.  They have a newer unit now available, faster and more channels.



Cheers Peter

_________________
Peter Armstrong
Auckland, New Zealand
DynAero MCR-4S (Do not shoot me Smile

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