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Harv
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 172
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 Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:56 am Post subject: HS6/Chang Triplex Gauge |
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Good afternoon
I have a faulty oil pressure displaying in the front cockpit of my Chang, it started intermittently reading and now pops up to a reading of 5 or zero as soon as the engine instruments are switched on (engine not running!).
Could someone enlighten me if there is more than one pressure sender on the engine or if one unit supplies the readings to both cockpit instruments? I should add the rear gauge reads fine with engine running.
Just trying to cut down investigation time by narrowing down if I have a instrument or sender problem here.
Cheers
Harv
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:10 am Post subject: HS6/Chang Triplex Gauge |
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There are two fuel pressure senders. Mostlike the one for front
cockpithas gone T.U.
A. Dennis Savarese
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 6/16/2015 7:56 AM, Harv wrote:
| Quote: |
Good afternoon
I have a faulty oil pressure displaying in the front cockpit of my Chang, it started intermittently reading and now pops up to a reading of 5 or zero as soon as the engine instruments are switched on (engine not running!).
Could someone enlighten me if there is more than one pressure sender on the engine or if one unit supplies the readings to both cockpit instruments? I should add the rear gauge reads fine with engine running.
Just trying to cut down investigation time by narrowing down if I have a instrument or sender problem here.
Cheers
Harv
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443606#443606
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:15 am Post subject: HS6/Chang Triplex Gauge |
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Sorry about the typo's. I have no idea what happened. It should read,
"Most Likely the one for the front cockpit has gone T.U."
A. Dennis Savarese
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 6/16/2015 8:10 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
| Quote: |
<dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>
There are two fuel pressure senders. Mostlike the one for front
cockpithas gone T.U.
A. Dennis Savarese
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 6/16/2015 7:56 AM, Harv wrote:
>
>
> Good afternoon
>
> I have a faulty oil pressure displaying in the front cockpit of my
> Chang, it started intermittently reading and now pops up to a reading
> of 5 or zero as soon as the engine instruments are switched on
> (engine not running!).
>
> Could someone enlighten me if there is more than one pressure sender
> on the engine or if one unit supplies the readings to both cockpit
> instruments? I should add the rear gauge reads fine with engine running.
>
> Just trying to cut down investigation time by narrowing down if I
> have a instrument or sender problem here.
>
> Cheers
>
> Harv
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443606#443606
>
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Harv
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 172
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:41 am Post subject: Re: HS6/Chang Triplex Gauge |
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This is the oil pressure, not fuel pressure.
Are there 2 oil senders?
Thanks
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dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:54 am Post subject: HS6/Chang Triplex Gauge |
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Harv,Yes, there is a fuel pressure and a oil pressure transducer for each cockpit.
Sometimes there is enough slack in the wire bundle to swap the cannon plugs to test the units and wiring. Most often the problem is located in the wiring. We do stock the triple gauges, transducers, and also the cannon plugs if your find that is the problem.
All that said it is not uncommon for just the oil pressure sector of the triple gauge to fail internally. But when that happens you will normally not see any "needle bounce" when power is applied to the system. Swapping the instruments between cockpits would be my first check.
Best,
Doug
On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 7:41 AM, Harv <martin.harvey(at)kbr.com (martin.harvey(at)kbr.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "Harv" <martin.harvey(at)kbr.com (martin.harvey(at)kbr.com)>
This is the oil pressure, not fuel pressure.
Are there 2 oil senders?
Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443620#443620
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Harv
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
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dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 2:14 pm Post subject: HS6/Chang Triplex Gauge |
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Harv,They are not on the engine, they are on the back side of the front firewall. Look at the back of the engine and locate the small oil pressure line which runs from the engine to a dual fitting on the firewall. You should see two such fittings, one with a black hose (FUEL) and one with a reddish hose (OIL). The transducers are on the back side of the fire at that position.
OR
See your parts book #2, page 4, see item #29. Those two round things are your FUEL transducers. For the OIL transducers see page 23, item #23 of the same book.
Parts books contain a wealth of knowledge.
Best from here,
Doug
On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 2:59 PM, Harv <martin.harvey(at)kbr.com (martin.harvey(at)kbr.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "Harv" <martin.harvey(at)kbr.com (martin.harvey(at)kbr.com)>
Doug
Thanks for your reply and thoughts on this.
Just to make my life a little easier, could you identify for me where on the engine the pressure transducers for the oil are?
Thanks again 
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=443647#443647
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clouddog22(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:37 pm Post subject: HS6/Chang Triplex Gauge |
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I just went through this also. List the rear transducer and three weeks later lost the front one. All is well now. I would check your front transducer. When you find them, swap the canon plugs and see if the problem follows. It could be as simple as replacing a canon plug only. I had one where the one of the wires had deteriorated and was causing a false reading. On Jun 16, 2015 6:16 PM, "doug sapp" <dougsappllc(at)gmail.com (dougsappllc(at)gmail.com)> wrote:[quote]Harv,They are not on the engine, they are on the back side of the front firewall. Look at the back of the engine and locate the small oil pressure line which runs from the engine to a dual fitting on the firewall. You should see two such fittings, one with a black hose (FUEL) and one with a reddish hose (OIL). The transducers are on the back side of the fire at that position.
OR
See your parts book #2, page 4, see item #29. Those two round things are your FUEL transducers. For the OIL transducers see page 23, item #23 of the same book.
Parts books contain a wealth of knowledge.
Best from here,
Doug
On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 2:59 PM, Harv <martin.harvey(at)kbr.com (martin.harvey(at)kbr.com)> wrote:
[b]
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Harv
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 172
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| Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:15 am Post subject: Re: HS6/Chang Triplex Gauge |
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Guys
Thanks for the replies, as yet I've not made it back to the a/c to check and swap the cannon plugs for the oil pressure senders.
So my understanding from Doug's wise words and from checking the parts manual diagram is that the oil senders and cannon plugs are mounted on the reverse side of the front firewall.
What's the method for accessing them? Do I remove the inspection panels on the side of the fuselage to gain access or via the cockpit?
If someone has a photo showing the location they could post up I'd really appreciate it.
Cheers
Harv
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clouddog22(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:56 am Post subject: HS6/Chang Triplex Gauge |
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Harv, it is the large inspection panel on right side of aircraft just aft of the cowling. Here is what you are loom ng for. There are two side by side to the right as you are looking into the cavity after you remove panel. Can't remember which one goes to front gate vs back have. On Jun 25, 2015 3:20 AM, "Harv" <martin.harvey(at)kbr.com (martin.harvey(at)kbr.com)> wrote: | Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "Harv" <martin.harvey(at)kbr.com (martin.harvey(at)kbr.com)>
Guys
Thanks for the replies, as yet I've not made it back to the a/c to check and swap the cannon plugs for the oil pressure senders.
So my understanding from Doug's wise words and from checking the parts manual diagram is that the oil senders and cannon plugs are mounted on the reverse side of the front firewall.
What's the method for accessing them? Do I remove the inspection panels on the side of the fuselage to gain access or via the cockpit?
If someone has a photo showing the location they could post up I'd really appreciate it.
Cheers
Harv
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=444016#444016
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rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
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Harv
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 172
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Harv
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 172
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:45 pm Post subject: Re: HS6/Chang Triplex Gauge |
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Update
I removed the access panels and established which oil pressure sender gives signal to front and rear cockpits respectively. Cleaned and swapped cannon plugs and the rear reads fine with the front still being at fault. I assume from this then the front cockpit triplex gauge is defective.
Does anyone have a good gauge for sale?
Also what function does the blanked off tube pushed onto the sender serve??
Thanks
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 1:06 pm Post subject: HS6/Chang Triplex Gauge |
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It's a vent tube.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 7/5/2015 3:45 PM, Harv wrote:
| Quote: |
Update
I removed the access panels and established which oil pressure sender gives signal to front and rear cockpits respectively. Cleaned and swapped cannon plugs and the rear reads fine with the front still being at fault. I assume from this then the front cockpit triplex gauge is defective.
Does anyone have a good gauge for sale?
Also what function does the blanked off tube pushed onto the sender serve??
Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=444403#444403
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pfstelwagon(at)earthlink.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 2:17 pm Post subject: HS6/Chang Triplex Gauge |
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Not necessarily the gauge. Carefully unscrew the backshells from the
connectors (sender and gauge) and inspect the wiring, don't twist the
wires,. It is not uncommon to find a wire broken at the terminal. When
soldered they can become brittle if solder crept up the wire and vibration
will break them.
Frank
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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
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| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:42 am Post subject: HS6/Chang Triplex Gauge |
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All true, but now just swap the gages from front to rear and verify.
Simple logic. Maybe a little bit of a pain but kind of proves it one way or the other.
I totally concur that it could be the wiring, as Frank mentioned below. I do not concur that it is because solder crept up the wire ... when the wire is properly tinned, it should have solder creeping up the wire. I have never worked on the CJ, so I cannot say for sure but most Russian cannon plugs include a backs-shell to prevent exactly what he was talking about .... but the issue with the Russian wiring that I have seen is most likely due to the solder/flux combination that they used. Typically there is a solder fracture (as Frank also pointed out) right at the wire to pin joint or slightly behind it. I have seen corrosion in these areas (need a good magnifying glass to see it) and this points to the flux really. If you ever end up having to re-solder these areas, pick a high quality solder and not something you bought from the now defunct "Radio Shack". I recommend Kester solder which includes the flux in the core.
Mark
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dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:16 am Post subject: HS6/Chang Triplex Gauge |
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If Frank's fix doesn't do the job, I have new and used gauges in stock. But I would first swap the gauges as Mark suggested.
Please contact me off list if you find you need a replacement triplex gauge.
Doug
On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 8:39 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)> wrote:
[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>
All true, but now just swap the gages from front to rear and verify.
Simple logic. Maybe a little bit of a pain but kind of proves it one way or the other.
I totally concur that it could be the wiring, as Frank mentioned below. I do not concur that it is because solder crept up the wire ... when the wire is properly tinned, it should have solder creeping up the wire. I have never worked on the CJ, so I cannot say for sure but most Russian cannon plugs include a backs-shell to prevent exactly what he was talking about .... but the issue with the Russian wiring that I have seen is most likely due to the solder/flux combination that they used. Typically there is a solder fracture (as Frank also pointed out) right at the wire to pin joint or slightly behind it. I have seen corrosion in these areas (need a good magnifying glass to see it) and this points to the flux really. If you ever end up having to re-solder these areas, pick a high quality solder and not something you bought from the now defunct "Radio Shack". I recommend Kester solder which includes the flux in the core.
Mark
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Harv
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 172
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: HS6/Chang Triplex Gauge |
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Update
So today I swapped the front and rear gauges over and guess what??
There is still no oil pressure on the front cockpit gauge. I have already swapped the cannon plugs at the sender and established they are both functioning correctly.
I guess this must be a wiring issue, I will check for continuity using a multimeter on each pin of the cannon plugs.
Any other ideas??
Thanks
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jay-dub
Joined: 31 May 2014
Posts: 99
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 11:58 pm Post subject: Re: HS6/Chang Triplex Gauge |
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Hi Harv,
Don't run out and buy a gauge yet. It may be worth swapping them over initially to troubleshoot. We have a similar problem in that the outlet oil temp on the triplex goes bananas in the front cockpit - rock steady in the rear. We assumed it was a gauge problem so swapped front and rear gauges. There was no effect meaning it is either the front sender or the wiring. We'll sort it out over the winter.
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Harv
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 172
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:29 am Post subject: Re: HS6/Chang Triplex Gauge |
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Thanks
I'm certain it's a wiring problem as the gauges behave normally when put into the rear cockpit, probably a bad joint at one of the cannon plugs on the front loom.
I'm not sure though how to debug? I've unscrewed the plug ends and eyeballed the internal joints which look ok. My idea is to now test the cannon sockets one by one, so socket connection pin marked as 1 goes to the other end of the wiring loom which is also marked as 1 on that cannon plug?
I will have to dig through my wiring diagrams.
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GeorgeCoy
Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 310
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:15 am Post subject: HS6/Chang Triplex Gauge |
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I hope you guys reversed your senders to confirm it is not a sender problem.
Swap the two cannon plugs and see if the problem follows. We have seen bad
senders in the past.
George Coy
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