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JL2A

Joined: 07 Apr 2015
Posts: 113
Location: Australia

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:18 pm Post subject: Sticky valve?

On a cold morning if the gear lever is selected down and main air turned on it hisses out the selector for a while then stops. This morning it just didn't stop, figuring I have a sticky one way valve somewhere (what I get for following manufacturers castor oil recommendation I suspect)



Anyone got a tip best place to start looking? For a CJ

Dawg

Joined: 19 May 2013
Posts: 355

Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:10 pm Post subject: Sticky valve?

Start looking for a Yak.



On Jul 21, 2015, at 1:18 PM, JL2A <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 On a cold morning if the gear lever is selected down and main air turned on it hisses out the selector for a while then stops. This morning it just didn't stop, figuring I have a sticky one way valve somewhere (what I get for following manufacturers castor oil recommendation I suspect)

 

 Anyone got a tip best place to start looking? For a CJ

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445005#445005

_________________
Dawg

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:55 am Post subject: Sticky valve?

When was the last time the gear actuators and diverter valves were overhauled? What may be happening is the air pressure from the DOWN side of the actuator is going by the seals in the actuator and out the UP side which goes back to the gear selector.

Dennis

        From: JL2A <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au>

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 11:18 PM

 Subject: Sticky valve?

--> Yak-List message posted by: "JL2A" <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au (info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au)>

On a cold morning if the gear lever is selected down and main air turned on it hisses out the selector for a while then stops. This morning it just didn't stop, figuring I have a sticky one way valve somewhere (what I get for following manufacturers castor oil recommendation I suspect)

Anyone got a tip best place to start looking? For a CJ

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.ronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/N               - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -http

 [quote][b]

Viperdoc

Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 484
Location: 08A

Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 5:27 am Post subject: Sticky valve?

Yep. Dennis is right.

Doc



Sent from my iPad



On Jul 21, 2015, at 6:49 AM, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:

[quote]When was the last time the gear actuators and diverter valves were overhauled? What may be happening is the air pressure from the DOWN side of the actuator is going by the seals in the actuator and out the UP side which goes back to the gear selector.

Dennis



        From: JL2A <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au (info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au)>

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 11:18 PM

 Subject: Sticky valve?

  

 

--> Yak-List message posted by: "JL2A" <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au (info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au)>



On a cold morning if the gear lever is selected down and main air turned on it hisses out the selector for a while then stops. This morning it just didn't stop, figuring I have a sticky one way valve somewhere (what I get for following manufacturers castor oil recommendation I suspect)



Anyone got a tip best place to start looking? For a CJ





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.ronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/N               - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -http

 

 

  

  	  Quote: 	
		  



D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

"3D"courier" new,courier"="">[url=3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List"]http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List[/url]

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

//forums.matronics.com

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D



	


[b]

_________________
Viperdoc

JL2A

Joined: 07 Apr 2015
Posts: 113
Location: Australia

Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 5:10 am Post subject: Re: Sticky valve?

Thanks Dennis, sounds reasonable. But why only when it's cold? Seems to indicate to me something is sticky with the cold castor oil? One actuator is new, the other has been in service for a while and used to drip a bit of oil out one end - I suspect this one.



I've stared at the schematic for long enough and still can't figure out where the diverter valves are on the actual aircraft - any hints!?

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 5:39 am Post subject: Sticky valve?

Don't discount the 3rd actuator as being the problem. Regarding the 

diverter valves, maybe someone on the list has a photo or two of the 

diverter valves they could post to the list. If I remember correctly, if 

you follow the air line from the down side of the actuator (that's the 

side opposite the chrome shaft that moves in and out of the actuator) 

backa bit, it will go into a T. Attached to the other side of the T are 

diverter valves.



My suspicion the reason it happens when it's cold is because the seals 

inside the actuator cylinders are stiffer and may not be sealing 

properly. Once the external temperature goes up, the rubber gets softer 

and possibly is allowing the seal to work properly. Perfect indication 

of old, dried out rubber seals.



The actuator you said was leaking should be overhauledor replaced before 

a more serious situation happens.  Like that gear leg not coming down. 

If it's been more than 5 years since theactuators and diverter valves 

have been overhauled, you're on borrowed time as far as normal gear 

operation is concerned.



Dennis



A. Dennis Savarese

334-546-8182 (mobile)

www.yak-52.com

Skype - Yakguy1



On 7/22/2015 8:10 AM, JL2A wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Thanks Dennis, sounds reasonable. But why only when it's cold? Seems to indicate to me something is sticky with the cold castor oil? One actuator is new, the other has been in service for a while and used to drip a bit of oil out one end - I suspect this one.



 I've stared at the schematic for long enough and still can't figure out where the diverter valves are on the actual aircraft - any hints!?





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445063#445063

av8ter

Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 27

Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:32 am Post subject: Re: Sticky valve?

I have gone through this issue in the past and I can tell you that the likely culprit and easiest to troubleshoot first is the rear cockpit handle. Place it DOWN and see what happens. 



Keith

JL2A

Joined: 07 Apr 2015
Posts: 113
Location: Australia

Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:55 pm Post subject: Re: Sticky valve?

Thanks guys, I'm tending towards it being an actuator getting worn. I warmed the suspect one up today and then selected down and there was only a short venting before it 'sealed'.



Time to put the overhauled one in methinks!



BUT, you never know, av8ter - how could the rear selector cause this? I've only ever seen the front one in pieces but from what I can see it's all bronze & steel bits, can't quite visualise how it relates to the symptoms - O ring maybe? What am I looking for when it is selected down?



Also, had a look and the only valve type assembly I can see on the down line is where it T's off to the uplock actuator - is this what is meant by diverter valve? Can't find any drawings referring to said part

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:07 am Post subject: Sticky valve?

Just remember, when the rear gear selector is in the neutral position, 

it passes the air to the front selector.   If you want to test this, 

FIRST put the rear selector in the DOWN position.  Then put the front 

selector in the NEUTRAL position. Next, turn on the main air valve. If 

an actuator is leaking, it will also leak at the rear selector.

Dennis

A. Dennis Savarese

334-546-8182 (mobile)

www.yak-52.com

Skype - Yakguy1



On 7/23/2015 1:55 AM, JL2A wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Thanks guys, I'm tending towards it being an actuator getting worn. I warmed the suspect one up today and then selected down and there was only a short venting before it 'sealed'.



 Time to put the overhauled one in methinks!



 BUT, you never know, av8ter - how could the rear selector cause this? I've only ever seen the front one in pieces but from what I can see it's all bronze & steel bits, can't quite visualise how it relates to the symptoms - O ring maybe? What am I looking for when it is selected down?





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=445113#445113

av8ter

Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 27

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:14 pm Post subject: Re: Sticky valve?

Dennis,  Thank you for clarifying my poorly worded troubleshooting option.



In any case that found the issue quickly.

JL2A

Joined: 07 Apr 2015
Posts: 113
Location: Australia

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:25 am Post subject: Re: Sticky valve?

'Twas the nose gear actuator! Bench tested it and air just whistled straight past the piston seals. Now for some freon, a sniffer and track down any other little leaks



Thanks Dennis, got all new actuators in now and have switche dto light machine oil rather than castor oil as I'm sick of the mess it makes on everything and the fact I can't seem to find a solvent for the sticky residue it leaves everywhere!

Ernie

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 513

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:40 am Post subject: Sticky valve?

Have we come to a consensus on machine oil being OK for the seals? Or is another MMO discussion?



Ernie

On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 8:25 AM, JL2A <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au (info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au)> wrote:

[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "JL2A" <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au (info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au)>

 

 'Twas the nose gear actuator! Bench tested it and air just whistled straight past the piston seals. Now for some freon, a sniffer and track down any other little leaks

 

 Thanks Dennis, got all new actuators in now and have switche dto light machine oil rather than castor oil as I'm sick of the mess it makes on everything and the fact I can't seem to find a solvent for the sticky residue it leaves everywhere!

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446375#446375

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

 ===========

  FORUMS -

 eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 b Site -

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 [b]

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:35 am Post subject: Sticky valve?

No.   Yes.  



Mark

--

dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:41 am Post subject: Sticky valve?

Anatole,True, castor oil does leave a residue, but you will discover in time that you will have more small leaks without it.Â  It's propensity to gum up does more good than harm in my opinion.Â  Also I'd test the oil that you are using to see if it's "friendly" as many of the modern tool oils will soften the old technology seals and 0 rings which are used in the CJ.Â  I would think that a straight mineral oil would be the safest way to go. Â  Knowledge gained from inspecting exchange core gear actuators suggest that many of us are using far to much light oil in our pneumatic systems.Â  We found that many core actuators had little or no high pressure grease left in them, it would appear that it had been washed away by the light weight oil.Â  To much light weight oil also has a tendency to carry (flush out) small bits of grit and junk down stream.Â  These small pieces of old rusted out standard steel springs, corrosion, and grit are the major killers of your start solenoid, and flap and gear valves.Â  We are now testing the installation of a second SS pneumatic filter placed just before the point where the air enters the rear flap and gear valves.Â  I think this will greatly extend the life of these expensive valves.

Doug

On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 5:25 AM, JL2A <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au (info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Yak-List message posted by: "JL2A" <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au (info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au)>

 

 'Twas the nose gear actuator! Bench tested it and air just whistled straight past the piston seals. Now for some freon, a sniffer and track down any other little leaks

 

 Thanks Dennis, got all new actuators in now and have switche dto light machine oil rather than castor oil as I'm sick of the mess it makes on everything and the fact I can't seem to find a solvent for the sticky residue it leaves everywhere!

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446375#446375

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

 ===========

  FORUMS -

 eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 b Site -

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 	




-- 

Doug

You have to make up your mind about growing up and becoming a pilot. You can't do both.

 

  [quote][b]

byronmfox(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:14 am Post subject: Sticky valve?

Good to hear from you, Doug. Would seem to indicate that the immediate need to defend the homestead from the surrounding fires has diminished.



Blitz Fox415-307-2405

On Aug 25, 2015, at 9:38 AM, doug sapp <dougsappllc(at)gmail.com (dougsappllc(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]Anatole,True, castor oil does leave a residue, but you will discover in time that you will have more small leaks without it.  It's propensity to gum up does more good than harm in my opinion.  Also I'd test the oil that you are using to see if it's "friendly" as many of the modern tool oils will soften the old technology seals and 0 rings which are used in the CJ.  I would think that a straight mineral oil would be the safest way to go.   Knowledge gained from inspecting exchange core gear actuators suggest that many of us are using far to much light oil in our pneumatic systems.  We found that many core actuators had little or no high pressure grease left in them, it would appear that it had been washed away by the light weight oil.  To much light weight oil also has a tendency to carry (flush out) small bits of grit and junk down stream.  These small pieces of old rusted out standard steel springs, corrosion, and grit are the major killers of your start solenoid, and flap and gear valves.  We are now testing the installation of a second SS pneumatic filter placed just before the point where the air enters the rear flap and gear valves.  I think this will greatly extend the life of these expensive valves.

Doug

On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 5:25 AM, JL2A <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au (info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Yak-List message posted by: "JL2A" <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au (info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au)>

 

 'Twas the nose gear actuator! Bench tested it and air just whistled straight past the piston seals. Now for some freon, a sniffer and track down any other little leaks

 

 Thanks Dennis, got all new actuators in now and have switche dto light machine oil rather than castor oil as I'm sick of the mess it makes on everything and the fact I can't seem to find a solvent for the sticky residue it leaves everywhere!

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446375#446375

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

 ===========

  FORUMS -

 eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 b Site -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 	




-- 

Doug

You have to make up your mind about growing up and becoming a pilot. You can't do both.

 

   	  Quote: 	
		  



D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

ist"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

//forums.matronics.com

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D



	


[b]

dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:43 am Post subject: Sticky valve?

Blitz and all,Yes, the fire is past us and we seem to have come away unscathed thanks to all who helped.Â  Many thanks to all those who sent their thoughts and prayers.

The fire is still not under control so please keep those still in harms way in your thoughts and prayers.Â  Refresh the fire map I posted earlier and zoom out, you can get a better idea as to the true size of this monster fire, it's nearly beyond belief.

We are back in the office and all is good, a bit smoky but good.

Thanks again to all our friends,

Doug and Kathleen

On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 10:11 AM, Byron Fox <byronmfox(at)gmail.com (byronmfox(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Good to hear from you, Doug. Would seem to indicate that the immediate need to defend the homestead from the surrounding fires has diminished.



Blitz Fox[url=tel:415-307-2405]415-307-2405[/url]

On Aug 25, 2015, at 9:38 AM, doug sapp <dougsappllc(at)gmail.com (dougsappllc(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Anatole,True, castor oil does leave a residue, but you will discover in time that you will have more small leaks without it.Â  It's propensity to gum up does more good than harm in my opinion.Â  Also I'd test the oil that you are using to see if it's "friendly" as many of the modern tool oils will soften the old technology seals and 0 rings which are used in the CJ.Â  I would think that a straight mineral oil would be the safest way to go. Â  Knowledge gained from inspecting exchange core gear actuators suggest that many of us are using far to much light oil in our pneumatic systems.Â  We found that many core actuators had little or no high pressure grease left in them, it would appear that it had been washed away by the light weight oil.Â  To much light weight oil also has a tendency to carry (flush out) small bits of grit and junk down stream.Â  These small pieces of old rusted out standard steel springs, corrosion, and grit are the major killers of your start solenoid, and flap and gear valves.Â  We are now testing the installation of a second SS pneumatic filter placed just before the point where the air enters the rear flap and gear valves.Â  I think this will greatly extend the life of these expensive valves.

Doug

On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 5:25 AM, JL2A <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au (info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Yak-List message posted by: "JL2A" <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au (info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au)>

 

 'Twas the nose gear actuator! Bench tested it and air just whistled straight past the piston seals. Now for some freon, a sniffer and track down any other little leaks

 

 Thanks Dennis, got all new actuators in now and have switche dto light machine oil rather than castor oil as I'm sick of the mess it makes on everything and the fact I can't seem to find a solvent for the sticky residue it leaves everywhere!

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446375#446375

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

 ===========

  FORUMS -

 eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 b Site -

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 	




-- 

Doug

You have to make up your mind about growing up and becoming a pilot. You can't do both.

 

   	  Quote: 	
		  



D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

ist"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

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//forums.matronics.com

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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  	  Quote: 	
		  



et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


	




-- 

Doug

You have to make up your mind about growing up and becoming a pilot. You can't do both.

 

  [quote][b]

cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:43 am Post subject: Sticky valve?

That's great to hear cause you have all our damn PARTS!!   

Pappy. 



Sent from my iPad from some where on The 3rd rock from the Sun.



On Aug 25, 2015, at 13:39, doug sapp <dougsappllc(at)gmail.com (dougsappllc(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]Blitz and all,Yes, the fire is past us and we seem to have come away unscathed thanks to all who helped.  Many thanks to all those who sent their thoughts and prayers.

The fire is still not under control so please keep those still in harms way in your thoughts and prayers.  Refresh the fire map I posted earlier and zoom out, you can get a better idea as to the true size of this monster fire, it's nearly beyond belief.

We are back in the office and all is good, a bit smoky but good.

Thanks again to all our friends,

Doug and Kathleen

On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 10:11 AM, Byron Fox <byronmfox(at)gmail.com (byronmfox(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Good to hear from you, Doug. Would seem to indicate that the immediate need to defend the homestead from the surrounding fires has diminished.



Blitz Fox[url=tel:415-307-2405]415-307-2405[/url]

On Aug 25, 2015, at 9:38 AM, doug sapp <dougsappllc(at)gmail.com (dougsappllc(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Anatole,True, castor oil does leave a residue, but you will discover in time that you will have more small leaks without it.  It's propensity to gum up does more good than harm in my opinion.  Also I'd test the oil that you are using to see if it's "friendly" as many of the modern tool oils will soften the old technology seals and 0 rings which are used in the CJ.  I would think that a straight mineral oil would be the safest way to go.   Knowledge gained from inspecting exchange core gear actuators suggest that many of us are using far to much light oil in our pneumatic systems.  We found that many core actuators had little or no high pressure grease left in them, it would appear that it had been washed away by the light weight oil.  To much light weight oil also has a tendency to carry (flush out) small bits of grit and junk down stream.  These small pieces of old rusted out standard steel springs, corrosion, and grit are the major killers of your start solenoid, and flap and gear valves.  We are now testing the installation of a second SS pneumatic filter placed just before the point where the air enters the rear flap and gear valves.  I think this will greatly extend the life of these expensive valves.

Doug

On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 5:25 AM, JL2A <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au (info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Yak-List message posted by: "JL2A" <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au (info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au)>

 

 'Twas the nose gear actuator! Bench tested it and air just whistled straight past the piston seals. Now for some freon, a sniffer and track down any other little leaks

 

 Thanks Dennis, got all new actuators in now and have switche dto light machine oil rather than castor oil as I'm sick of the mess it makes on everything and the fact I can't seem to find a solvent for the sticky residue it leaves everywhere!

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=446375#446375

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Doug

You have to make up your mind about growing up and becoming a pilot. You can't do both.

 

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You have to make up your mind about growing up and becoming a pilot. You can't do both.

 

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[b]

JL2A

Joined: 07 Apr 2015
Posts: 113
Location: Australia

Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:01 am Post subject: Re: Sticky valve?

Mmm ok, so Aeroshell 100 then? In the manual it specifies castor oil OR type 8 aviation oil, what ever that is (or type x I can't remember) Do we think that it is probably a mineral oil? Has anyone got a way to find out?



I am done with castor oil! The book calls for a colossal amount (something like 30mL into each end if I recall correctly?) and around the front rudder pedals and all that area is a sticky mess. There's a very well preserved CJ under it all which is a plus I guess. 



I think I read here that others were using machine oil and it was fine - the thought did cross my mind about seal compatibility but one of those wanting to believe situations I guess.

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:55 pm Post subject: Sticky valve?

I was talked into putting pneumatic tool oil into my pneumatic system back around 2001 or so, on the original version of the YAK LIST.   



I had just purchased my YAK-50 and had no idea how old the landing gear actuator seals were, but they were working fine at the time.   I injected the oil and several flights later, the seals in the landing gear actuators started coming apart.  What I noticed was air leaking out the gear handle when the gear was down and locked.   Luckily I figured out that if the actuator had internal leakage, you would hear that at the gear handle.   When I took the actuators apart, the chevron seals were pretty much like soft putty.   



Granted, these were probably original Russian seals.   Granted, they were probably hardened and in very poor shape.  However, the oil caused them to just fall apart.  



To each his or her own, but after that little experience I have never injected a DARN thing into my air system.  NADA ZERO ZIPPO.   I did rebuild the actuators, and honestly it is about time to do them again and personally... I believe that rebuilding the actuators, and taking apart and looking at pneumatic components every so often is a very good idea, especially the areas where there is known corrosion issues and doing that is much more important than injecting ANYTHING into that system.  



As I said, I own a YAK-50, so my experience may not be applicable to 52's or CJ's.  However, I'd be very cautious of what I inject into the air system and would not ad hoc it under any circumstance, or make guesses.   Also of note is that my brake system is no longer pneumatic,  it is now toe brakes and hydraulic.   So my pneumatic system is just for landing gear and starting.  



There is long term impact with this decision, so caution is the order of the day (so to speak). 



Best of luck, 



Mark

--

wlannon(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:00 pm Post subject: Sticky valve?

Mark, et al.



Been meaning to join this discussion for a while but due to old age, 

inertia, laziness (or a combination of all three) have failed to do so.  But 

you have given me a kick in the butt so here we go.

Back in the day of PT19s, PT22s, PT26s, early T6s etc. aircraft  hydraulic 

fluid (Mil spec. 3586 if I remember correctly) was blue in color and was a 

vegetable based oil,  perfectly compatible with the natural rubber seals of 

that era.

With the introduction of mineral oil based fluids (eg. Mil 5606) all seals 

had to be replaced with synthetic rubber equivalents (nitrile, neoprene, 

etc.) Natural rubber exposed to mineral based oils was (and is) a disaster. 

Nitrile seals are perfectly OK in vegetable fluids (castor oil, etc.) but 

the reverse is not true.

As a result over the past 20 years whenever I overhaul a Nanchang oleo or 

actuator I first immerse the new seals in MIL 5606 for a period of 48 hours 

prior to installation.  Not surprisingly some have to be rejected due to 

swelling.  There appears to be both natural and nitrile seals from China 

though as I indicated both would be acceptable in castor oil.

Air tool oil (which I use) is a petroleum based fluid with a moisture 

retaining additive (though seems impossible to get a definitive  breakdown 

of ingredients) which will certainly destroy natural rubber seals.

Cheers;

Walt



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