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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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 Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:04 pm Post subject: AOA |
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https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s
Here is a link with an even cheaper AOA gage that I found on You Tube. I think it is worth watching. I do believe that one could save even more weight and money over the one that I built. Granted mine only cost a bit of my time, a bolt and two pop rivets. This one could be had for the cost of a piece of twine stuck on the side of your lexan. In any case I found it very informative. The weather is being very nice to us by rain and snow, both highly unusual in this part of the country. I may not be able to do any testing on mine before Feb.
Larry
--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 7:06 am Post subject: AOA |
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Don't know if I can hold my breath in anticipation that long or not.
Turning blue at hauck's holler.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
PS: Why not kill two experiments at one time. Stick a piece of yarn on the Lexan and see if it will work.
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Cottrell
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 12:04 AM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: AOA
https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s
Here is a link with an even cheaper AOA gage that I found on You Tube. I think it is worth watching. I do believe that one could save even more weight and money over the one that I built. Granted mine only cost a bit of my time, a bolt and two pop rivets. This one could be had for the cost of a piece of twine stuck on the side of your lexan. In any case I found it very informative. The weather is being very nice to us by rain and snow, both highly unusual in this part of the country. I may not be able to do any testing on mine before Feb.
Larry
--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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russk50(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:04 pm Post subject: AOA |
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JohnHope you’re not completely blue. It’s a balmy 17F here now. Dont visit for awhile.
Never thought I’d hear you say VG’s without cussing. In a day or 2 I’ll measure where mine are on the Xtra. Put on by the original builder here in Maine. I had to replace those on one wing, gottum from Gilpin. Good stuff, easy to apply.
Fair winds,
Russ K
| Quote: | On Jan 14, 2016, at 10:06 AM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:
Don't know if I can hold my breath in anticipation that long or not.
Turning blue at hauck's holler.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
PS: Why not kill two experiments at one time. Stick a piece of yarn on the Lexan and see if it will work.
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Larry CottrellSent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 12:04 AMTo: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)Subject: AOA
https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s
Here is a link with an even cheaper AOA gage that I found on You Tube. I think it is worth watching. I do believe that one could save even more weight and money over the one that I built. Granted mine only cost a bit of my time, a bolt and two pop rivets. This one could be had for the cost of a piece of twine stuck on the side of your lexan. In any case I found it very informative. The weather is being very nice to us by rain and snow, both highly unusual in this part of the country. I may not be able to do any testing on mine before Feb.Larry
--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.
|
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:10 pm Post subject: AOA |
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Larry,
A very elegant solution
At 01:04 AM 1/14/2016, you wrote:
| Quote: | <https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s>https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s
|
I tried several different things over the years. One worked well but
was cumbersome. The other was a yarn tuft on the side of the
windshield. I moved it up and down to see where it was the most
sensitive. Unfortunately that spot was where I could not see it while
looking forward.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:31 pm Post subject: AOA |
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Thanks for the comments Jack. When the weather clears I will do some testing and see if Firestars react differently to Fire Flys. I will eventually go to the yarn, but I want to try the bigger surface of the alum first. Larry
On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 7:08 PM, Jack B. Hart <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net (jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net (jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net)>
Larry,
A very elegant solution
At 01:04 AM 1/14/2016, you wrote:
I tried several different things over the years. One worked well but
was cumbersome. The other was a yarn tuft on the side of the
windshield. I moved it up and down to see where it was the most
sensitive. Unfortunately that spot was where I could not see it while
looking forward.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
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--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 7:00 pm Post subject: AOA |
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Over the years folks on this List have assumed that I do not like VGs. That assumption was and is entirely incorrect.
My stand on VGs has always been, in the past, that I did not need them on my MKIII. Until recently I was a much better pilot than I am now. Two reasons:
-Age.
-Not flying nearly as much as I used to. I am rusty and will be rusty until I decide I want to fly much more frequently.
Flying Larry Cottrell's FSII convinced me that VGs help make a difference landing for old pilots that are rusty as Hell. Why not take advantage of that change/improvement?
Never said I did not like VGs.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of kinne russ
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 8:04 PM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: AOA
John
Hope you’re not completely blue. It’s a balmy 17F here now. Dont visit for awhile.
Never thought I’d hear you say VG’s without cussing. In a day or 2 I’ll measure where mine are on the Xtra. Put on by the original builder here in Maine. I had to replace those on one wing, gottum from Gilpin. Good stuff, easy to apply.
Fair winds,
Russ K
| Quote: |
On Jan 14, 2016, at 10:06 AM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:
Don't know if I can hold my breath in anticipation that long or not.
Turning blue at hauck's holler.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
PS: Why not kill two experiments at one time. Stick a piece of yarn on the Lexan and see if it will work.
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Larry Cottrell
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 12:04 AM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: AOA
https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s
Here is a link with an even cheaper AOA gage that I found on You Tube. I think it is worth watching. I do believe that one could save even more weight and money over the one that I built. Granted mine only cost a bit of my time, a bolt and two pop rivets. This one could be had for the cost of a piece of twine stuck on the side of your lexan. In any case I found it very informative. The weather is being very nice to us by rain and snow, both highly unusual in this part of the country. I may not be able to do any testing on mine before Feb.
Larry
--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.
|
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 7:32 pm Post subject: AOA |
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Keep in mind that to be truly useful, AOA needs some sort of audio in the headset, or to at least be directly in the pilot's normal line of sight while maneuvering. If you're visually fixating on something out to the side, bad things in front can go unnoticed. 
On 1/14/2016 8:31 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
| Quote: | Thanks for the comments Jack. When the weather clears I will do some testing and see if Firestars react differently to Fire Flys. I will eventually go to the yarn, but I want to try the bigger surface of the alum first. Larry
On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 7:08 PM, Jack B. Hart <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net (jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" <[url=mailto:jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net]jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net (jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net)[/url]>
Larry,
A very elegant solution
At 01:04 AM 1/14/2016, you wrote:
I tried several different things over the years. One worked well but
was cumbersome. The other was a yarn tuft on the side of the
windshield. I moved it up and down to see where it was the most
sensitive. Unfortunately that spot was where I could not see it while
looking forward.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
|
|
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
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| Back to top |
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 7:39 pm Post subject: AOA |
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Quick scan, cross check?
In a Kolb, any model, I find the ASI works great to prevent stalls. There is very little difference in air speed between a straight and level stall and an accelerated stall.
I realize the subject is AOA. Guess I am trying to say I don't think I need one. 
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie England
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 9:33 PM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: AOA
Keep in mind that to be truly useful, AOA needs some sort of audio in the headset, or to at least be directly in the pilot's normal line of sight while maneuvering. If you're visually fixating on something out to the side, bad things in front can go unnoticed.
On 1/14/2016 8:31 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
| Quote: |
Thanks for the comments Jack. When the weather clears I will do some testing and see if Firestars react differently to Fire Flys. I will eventually go to the yarn, but I want to try the bigger surface of the alum first.
Larry
On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 7:08 PM, Jack B. Hart <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net (jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net)> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net (jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net)>
Larry,
A very elegant solution
At 01:04 AM 1/14/2016, you wrote:
<https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s>https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s
I tried several different things over the years. One worked well but
was cumbersome. The other was a yarn tuft on the side of the
windshield. I moved it up and down to see where it was the most
sensitive. Unfortunately that spot was where I could not see it while
looking forward.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
|
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:01 pm Post subject: AOA |
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Charlie England via matronics.com 8:33 PM (11 minutes ago)
to kolb-list
Keep in mind that to be truly useful, AOA needs some sort of audio in the headset, or to at least be directly in the pilot's normal line of sight while maneuvering. If you're visually fixating on something out to the side, bad things in front can go unnoticed.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think where I have it located I will be able to see it with my peripheral vision. It actually would not take all that much to actually make it audible, or with lights, with some contact points at the proper places. However I have to admit that I am most likely too lazy to do so.
I still haven't convinced myself that one is needed with a Firestar. I am sure that it would help a novice, but I have bounced, crashed and other unmentionables enough times that I think I have it slammed into my head. I am open to change and if I can land better and slower with one, I will be happy to change.
Larry
On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 8:33 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Keep in mind that to be truly useful, AOA needs some sort of audio in the headset, or to at least be directly in the pilot's normal line of sight while maneuvering. If you're visually fixating on something out to the side, bad things in front can go unnoticed.
On 1/14/2016 8:31 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
| Quote: | Thanks for the comments Jack. When the weather clears I will do some testing and see if Firestars react differently to Fire Flys. I will eventually go to the yarn, but I want to try the bigger surface of the alum first. Larry
On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 7:08 PM, Jack B. Hart <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net (jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" < (jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net)jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net (jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net)>
Larry,
A very elegant solution
At 01:04 AM 1/14/2016, you wrote:
I tried several different things over the years. One worked well but
was cumbersome. The other was a yarn tuft on the side of the
windshield. I moved it up and down to see where it was the most
sensitive. Unfortunately that spot was where I could not see it while
looking forward.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
|
|
|
--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
_________________
do not archive |
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| Back to top |
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patrickjladd(at)hotmail.c
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 3:33 am Post subject: AOA |
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KISS John. I agree with you. Pat
From: John Hauck (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 3:39 AM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: AOA
Quick scan, cross check?
In a Kolb, any model, I find the ASI works great to prevent stalls. There is very little difference in air speed between a straight and level stall and an accelerated stall.
I realize the subject is AOA. Guess I am trying to say I don't think I need one.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie England
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 9:33 PM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: AOA
Keep in mind that to be truly useful, AOA needs some sort of audio in the headset, or to at least be directly in the pilot's normal line of sight while maneuvering. If you're visually fixating on something out to the side, bad things in front can go unnoticed.
On 1/14/2016 8:31 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
| Quote: |
Thanks for the comments Jack. When the weather clears I will do some testing and see if Firestars react differently to Fire Flys. I will eventually go to the yarn, but I want to try the bigger surface of the alum first.
Larry
On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 7:08 PM, Jack B. Hart <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net (jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net)> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net (jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net)>
Larry,
A very elegant solution
At 01:04 AM 1/14/2016, you wrote:
<https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s>https://youtu.be/Ubx5S8rzl7s
I tried several different things over the years. One worked well but
was cumbersome. The other was a yarn tuft on the side of the
windshield. I moved it up and down to see where it was the most
sensitive. Unfortunately that spot was where I could not see it while
looking forward.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
|
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
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mojavjoe
Joined: 23 Dec 2013
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:04 pm Post subject: AOA |
|
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Larry:
If your device works; it would be simple to put a small magenet on the arm and a mag. pickup inside, placed near the point of stall, hooked to an audio device.
From: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com>
To: "kolb-list" <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 11:01:00 PM
Subject: Re: AOA
Charlie England via matronics.com 8:33 PM (11 minutes ago)
to kolb-list
Keep in mind that to be truly useful, AOA needs some sort of audio in the headset, or to at least be directly in the pilot's normal line of sight while maneuvering. If you're visually fixating on something out to the side, bad things in front can go unnoticed.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think where I have it located I will be able to see it with my peripheral vision. It actually would not take all that much to actually make it audible, or with lights, with some contact points at the proper places. However I have to admit that I am most likely too lazy to do so.
I still haven't convinced myself that one is needed with a Firestar. I am sure that it would help a novice, but I have bounced, crashed and other unmentionables enough times that I think I have it slammed into my head. I am open to change and if I can land better and slower with one, I will be happy to change.
Larry
On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 8:33 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Keep in mind that to be truly useful, AOA needs some sort of audio in the headset, or to at least be directly in the pilot's normal line of sight while maneuvering. If you're visually fixating on something out to the side, bad things in front can go unnoticed.
On 1/14/2016 8:31 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
| Quote: | Thanks for the comments Jack. When the weather clears I will do some testing and see if Firestars react differently to Fire Flys. I will eventually go to the yarn, but I want to try the bigger surface of the alum first. Larry
On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 7:08 PM, Jack B. Hart <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net (jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" < (jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net)jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net (jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net)>
Larry,
A very elegant solution
At 01:04 AM 1/14/2016, you wrote:
I tried several different things over the years. One worked well but
was cumbersome. The other was a yarn tuft on the side of the
windshield. I moved it up and down to see where it was the most
sensitive. Unfortunately that spot was where I could not see it while
looking forward.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
|
|
|
--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
|
| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:00 pm Post subject: AOA |
|
|
If the indicating arm is far enough out towards the nose, the air should flow in a straight line. Assuming that it does and its position is discernible to the pilot, you might not need a light or horn. Most of my landings do not have or require any serious movement of the stick until I get within a foot or so of the ground.
I would however be interested in any thing that you could find that would make it an audible or visual indicator.
Larry
On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 6:01 PM, <mojavjoe(at)comcast.net (mojavjoe(at)comcast.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | Larry:
If your device works; it would be simple to put a small magenet on the arm and a mag. pickup inside, placed near the point of stall, hooked to an audio device.
From: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com (lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com)>
To: "kolb-list" <kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 11:01:00 PM
Subject: Re: AOA
Charlie England via matronics.com 8:33 PM (11 minutes ago)
to kolb-list
Keep in mind that to be truly useful, AOA needs some sort of audio in the headset, or to at least be directly in the pilot's normal line of sight while maneuvering. If you're visually fixating on something out to the side, bad things in front can go unnoticed.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think where I have it located I will be able to see it with my peripheral vision. It actually would not take all that much to actually make it audible, or with lights, with some contact points at the proper places. However I have to admit that I am most likely too lazy to do so.
I still haven't convinced myself that one is needed with a Firestar. I am sure that it would help a novice, but I have bounced, crashed and other unmentionables enough times that I think I have it slammed into my head. I am open to change and if I can land better and slower with one, I will be happy to change.
Larry
On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 8:33 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Keep in mind that to be truly useful, AOA needs some sort of audio in the headset, or to at least be directly in the pilot's normal line of sight while maneuvering. If you're visually fixating on something out to the side, bad things in front can go unnoticed.
On 1/14/2016 8:31 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
| Quote: | Thanks for the comments Jack. When the weather clears I will do some testing and see if Firestars react differently to Fire Flys. I will eventually go to the yarn, but I want to try the bigger surface of the alum first. Larry
On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 7:08 PM, Jack B. Hart <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net (jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" < (jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net)jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net (jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net)>
Larry,
A very elegant solution
At 01:04 AM 1/14/2016, you wrote:
I tried several different things over the years. One worked well but
was cumbersome. The other was a yarn tuft on the side of the
windshield. I moved it up and down to see where it was the most
sensitive. Unfortunately that spot was where I could not see it while
looking forward.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:50 pm Post subject: AOA |
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I'm thinking install a micro switch. Install a light on top of the dash. Set the light to come on 5 mph above the stall
Boyd On Jan 15, 2016 6:07 PM, <mojavjoe(at)comcast.net (mojavjoe(at)comcast.net)> wrote: | Quote: | Larry:
If your device works; it would be simple to put a small magenet on the arm and a mag. pickup inside, placed near the point of stall, hooked to an audio device.
From: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com (lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com)>
To: "kolb-list" <kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 11:01:00 PM
Subject: Re: AOA
Charlie England via matronics.com 8:33 PM (11 minutes ago)
to kolb-list
Keep in mind that to be truly useful, AOA needs some sort of audio in the headset, or to at least be directly in the pilot's normal line of sight while maneuvering. If you're visually fixating on something out to the side, bad things in front can go unnoticed.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think where I have it located I will be able to see it with my peripheral vision. It actually would not take all that much to actually make it audible, or with lights, with some contact points at the proper places. However I have to admit that I am most likely too lazy to do so.
I still haven't convinced myself that one is needed with a Firestar. I am sure that it would help a novice, but I have bounced, crashed and other unmentionables enough times that I think I have it slammed into my head. I am open to change and if I can land better and slower with one, I will be happy to change.
Larry
On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 8:33 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Keep in mind that to be truly useful, AOA needs some sort of audio in the headset, or to at least be directly in the pilot's normal line of sight while maneuvering. If you're visually fixating on something out to the side, bad things in front can go unnoticed.
On 1/14/2016 8:31 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
| Quote: | Thanks for the comments Jack. When the weather clears I will do some testing and see if Firestars react differently to Fire Flys. I will eventually go to the yarn, but I want to try the bigger surface of the alum first. Larry
On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 7:08 PM, Jack B. Hart <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net (jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" < (jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net)jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net (jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net)>
Larry,
A very elegant solution
At 01:04 AM 1/14/2016, you wrote:
I tried several different things over the years. One worked well but
was cumbersome. The other was a yarn tuft on the side of the
windshield. I moved it up and down to see where it was the most
sensitive. Unfortunately that spot was where I could not see it while
looking forward.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
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If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.
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ceengland7(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:40 pm Post subject: AOA |
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Might not be that useful on a Kolb, but the really useful feature of AOA indicators is supposed to be the ability to fly at max lift/drag; not just avoid stall. The AOA lets you do that regardless of weight, since stall speed changes significantly with weight but stall AOA does not.
Ideally, a variable light/tone should be helpful. This one has a 'ladder' type display. Wouldn't take much for a HAM radio buddy to build you a voltage to frequency converter for audio.
http://www.barkeraircraft.com/AOA_kit.html
I hope it's still available; it's been on & off the market a couple of times.
Charlie
On 1/15/2016 9:49 PM, B Young wrote:
| Quote: |
I'm thinking install a micro switch. Install a light on top of the dash. Set the light to come on 5 mph above the stall
Boyd On Jan 15, 2016 6:07 PM, <[url=mailto:mojavjoe(at)comcast.net]mojavjoe(at)comcast.net (mojavjoe(at)comcast.net)[/url]> wrote: | Quote: | Larry:
If your device works; it would be simple to put a small magenet on the arm and a mag. pickup inside, placed near the point of stall, hooked to an audio device.
From: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com (lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com)>
To: "kolb-list" <kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 11:01:00 PM
Subject: Re: AOA
Charlie England via matronics.com 8:33 PM (11 minutes ago)
to kolb-list
Keep in mind that to be truly useful, AOA needs some sort of audio in the headset, or to at least be directly in the pilot's normal line of sight while maneuvering. If you're visually fixating on something out to the side, bad things in front can go unnoticed.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think where I have it located I will be able to see it with my peripheral vision. It actually would not take all that much to actually make it audible, or with lights, with some contact points at the proper places. However I have to admit that I am most likely too lazy to do so.
I still haven't convinced myself that one is needed with a Firestar. I am sure that it would help a novice, but I have bounced, crashed and other unmentionables enough times that I think I have it slammed into my head. I am open to change and if I can land better and slower with one, I will be happy to change.
Larry
On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 8:33 PM, Charlie England <[url=mailto:ceengland7(at)gmail.com]ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)[/url]> wrote:
| Quote: | Keep in mind that to be truly useful, AOA needs some sort of audio in the headset, or to at least be directly in the pilot's normal line of sight while maneuvering. If you're visually fixating on something out to the side, bad things in front can go unnoticed.
On 1/14/2016 8:31 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
| Quote: | Thanks for the comments Jack. When the weather clears I will do some testing and see if Firestars react differently to Fire Flys. I will eventually go to the yarn, but I want to try the bigger surface of the alum first. Larry
On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 7:08 PM, Jack B. Hart <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net (jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net (jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net)>
Larry,
A very elegant solution
At 01:04 AM 1/14/2016, you wrote:
I tried several different things over the years. One worked well but
was cumbersome. The other was a yarn tuft on the side of the
windshield. I moved it up and down to see where it was the most
sensitive. Unfortunately that spot was where I could not see it while
looking forward.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
|
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If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.
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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:41 pm Post subject: aoa |
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What I am visualizing is a vane, much like what I have with an arm on the inside of the lexan. Run one wire to the arm. make a "board" with 4 or five wires sticking through the board with a solder lump on the ends. The arm as it moves up and down would make contact with the different wires as it moves, each lighting a different light moving up to the red one. Larry
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ceengland7(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:46 pm Post subject: aoa |
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On 1/15/2016 10:41 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
| Quote: | What I am visualizing is a vane, much like what I have with an arm on the inside of the lexan. Run one wire to the arm. make a "board" with 4 or five wires sticking through the board with a solder lump on the ends. The arm as it moves up and down would make contact with the different wires as it moves, each lighting a different light moving up to the red one. Larry
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Ships passing in the night....
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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:54 pm Post subject: aoa |
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Ships passing in the night....
I'm betting the other one would be a lot nicer.
On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 9:46 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | On 1/15/2016 10:41 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
| Quote: | What I am visualizing is a vane, much like what I have with an arm on the inside of the lexan. Run one wire to the arm. make a "board" with 4 or five wires sticking through the board with a solder lump on the ends. The arm as it moves up and down would make contact with the different wires as it moves, each lighting a different light moving up to the red one. Larry
--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.
|
Ships passing in the night....
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If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.
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Richard Pike
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee
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| Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:37 am Post subject: Re: AOA |
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|
Why could you not make an AOA indicator using a fuel gauge assembly? The sender typically uses an arm that changes angle and sends a signal; instead of the wire and float, make a counterbalanced vane that would move in the airflow. Mount the gauge on its side, and now you have a needle that goes up and down at different vane angles. Ideally you take the gauge cover off and instead of empty and full, you paint on angles of attack up to stall.
You could try something like this first:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-52mm-2-Car-Fuel-Level-Gauge-Meter-With-Fuel-Sensor-E-1-2-F-Pointer-/401028163857?hash=item5d5f242911:g:sHEAAOSweuxWSo-T&vxp=mtr
Looking at the sender unit in this set, if you cut off everything you didn't need, the sender itself would be about 2" across, plus however big your vane is.
Once you got that to work, but say you wanted a lighted gauge instead, one that went up and down, you could try something like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Motor-Motorcycle-2-Fuel-Meter-Digital-Display-Fuel-Ratio-Level-Gauge-/201502529749?hash=item2eea7c98d5:g:nr0AAOSwYIhWlint&vxp=mtr
Now you have led's that go up and down as your AOA changed. And if you repainted the face and mounted it upside down, you have yellow and red at the top.
Then stick the gauge in a little holder that sits on top of your panel so it is in your immediate vision while you are on final:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/52Mm-2-Adjustable-Swivel-Dash-Mount-Single-Racing-Gauge-Cup-Holder-Pod-Bracket-/172060327859?hash=item280f983fb3:g:F8IAAOSwGotWlXS6&vxp=mtr
Seems to me a fairly simple exercise in making your vane assembly light and responsive, finding the best airflow location, and doing some calibrating.
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Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
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Herbgh(at)nctc.com
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| Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:14 am Post subject: AOA |
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My first AOA design was to use a small nuclear reactor coupled
to a scintillator...hooked to a high voltage shock device in the seat of
the plane.... but the engineering would take too long...
so how about this...a linear potentiometer hooked to the air
vane(some weather protection) ...two leads run to an indicator on the
panel... the indicator being a Milli volt meter...in series with another
small pot /AA battery to adjust the meter reading . Meter would be over
laid with green and red markers... simply adjust the potentiometer on
the dash into the red when stalled onset is sensed.. Herb
On 01/16/2016 07:37 AM, Richard Pike wrote:
| Quote: |
Why could you not make an AOA indicator using a fuel gauge assembly? The sender typically uses an arm that changes angle and sends a signal; instead of the wire and float, make a counterbalanced vane that would move in the airflow. Mount the gauge on its side, and now you have a needle that goes up and down at different vane angles. Ideally you take the gauge cover off and instead of empty and full, you paint on angles of attack up to stall.
You could try something like this first:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-52mm-2-Car-Fuel-Level-Gauge-Meter-With-Fuel-Sensor-E-1-2-F-Pointer-/401028163857?hash=item5d5f242911:g:sHEAAOSweuxWSo-T&vxp=mtr
Looking at the sender unit in this set, if you cut off everything you didn't need, the sender itself would be about 2" across, plus however big your vane is.
Once you got that to work, but say you wanted a lighted gauge instead, one that went up and down, you could try something like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Motor-Motorcycle-2-Fuel-Meter-Digital-Display-Fuel-Ratio-Level-Gauge-/201502529749?hash=item2eea7c98d5:g:nr0AAOSwYIhWlint&vxp=mtr
Now you have led's that go up and down as your AOA changed. And if you repainted the face and mounted it upside down, you have yellow and red at the top.
Then stick the gauge in a little holder that sits on top of your panel so it is in your immediate vision while you are on final:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/52Mm-2-Adjustable-Swivel-Dash-Mount-Single-Racing-Gauge-Cup-Holder-Pod-Bracket-/172060327859?hash=item280f983fb3:g:F8IAAOSwGotWlXS6&vxp=mtr
Seems to me a fairly simple exercise in making your vane assembly light and responsive, finding the best airflow location, and doing some calibrating.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452018#452018
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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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| Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:21 am Post subject: AOA |
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Sounds good, you guy's let me know when you get them finished. It appears that my work is done here.
For me however, I don't have room on my panel for another gage, so some form of lights would work the best for me. Hopefully one of us "Kolbers" can come up with something that is worth doing.
Larry
On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 7:13 AM, Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com (Herbgh(at)nctc.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: Herb <Herbgh(at)nctc.com (Herbgh(at)nctc.com)>
so how about this...a linear potentiometer hooked to the air vane(some weather protection) ...two leads run to an indicator on the panel.. the indicator being a Milli volt meter...in series with another small pot /AA battery to adjust the meter reading . Meter would be over laid with green and red markers... simply adjust the potentiometer on the dash into the red when stalled onset is sensed.. Herb
On 01/16/2016 07:37 AM, Richard Pike wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net (thegreybaron(at)charter.net)>
Why could you not make an AOA indicator using a fuel gauge assembly? The sender typically uses an arm that changes angle and sends a signal; instead of the wire and float, make a counterbalanced vane that would move in the airflow. Mount the gauge on its side, and now you have a needle that goes up and down at different vane angles. Ideally you take the gauge cover off and instead of empty and full, you paint on angles of attack up to stall.
You could try something like this first:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-52mm-2-Car-Fuel-Level-Gauge-Meter-With-Fuel-Sensor-E-1-2-F-Pointer-/401028163857?hash=item5d5f242911:g:sHEAAOSweuxWSo-T&vxp=mtr
Looking at the sender unit in this set, if you cut off everything you didn't need, the sender itself would be about 2" across, plus however big your vane is.
Once you got that to work, but say you wanted a lighted gauge instead, one that went up and down, you could try something like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Motor-Motorcycle-2-Fuel-Meter-Digital-Display-Fuel-Ratio-Level-Gauge-/201502529749?hash=item2eea7c98d5:g:nr0AAOSwYIhWlint&vxp=mtr
Now you have led's that go up and down as your AOA changed. And if you repainted the face and mounted it upside down, you have yellow and red at the top.
Then stick the gauge in a little holder that sits on top of your panel so it is in your immediate vision while you are on final:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/52Mm-2-Adjustable-Swivel-Dash-Mount-Single-Racing-Gauge-Cup-Holder-Pod-Bracket-/172060327859?hash=item280f983fb3:g:F8IAAOSwGotWlXS6&vxp=mtr
Seems to me a fairly simple exercise in making your vane assembly light and responsive, finding the best airflow location, and doing some calibrating.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWcDXT6pH7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452018#452018
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