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Tim(at)MyRV10.com
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 Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:49 am Post subject: Lightspeed with Keyswitch and 1 Mag Wiring |
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This is a repost of previous info. I had a builder ask me about it
and I couldn't find it in the archives well, so I thought I'd
resend it with a good subject line.
-----
Wiring a Keyswitch Ignition - Lightspeed Plasma III/II+ ignition and a Mag
Another non-RV10 builder, Dave Sundberg passed this on to me previously,
and I wired mine this way and it indeed works fine. It does seem a bit
like black magic, but seeing as it works fine I won't be complaining.
Test it out before and after you run the engine, but it should work fine.
The configuration is a Mag on the Left side, feeding the lower plugs,
and a Lightspeed Plasma III (or II+) feeding the top plugs as the Right
system. Note that allthough Lightspeed calls it a keyswitch "Option",
it's always on the system, just optional to connect.
* The P-Lead from the Mag goes to the L-Terminal on the Switch with
the shield connected to the GRN terminal on the mag and not connected to
anything on the switch end.
* The P-Lead from the LS (Pin 1) goes to the R-Terminal on the
switch and the shield (Pin 9) goes to the GRN-Terminal in the center of
the switch.
* Do not connect the jumper from the R-Term to the GRN-Terminal
next to it.
* Do not connect the center GRN-Terminal on the switch to aircraft
ground. Both ignitions are grounded out with the switch in the OFF position.
Dave had been flying and it was working for him. I am flying too and
it's working great for me. I had previously spent time hooking mine up
and ohming things out and was confused as heck. I also was confused in
that the P-Lead on the mag is seemingly shorted to ground even with the
wire disconnected, so I couldn't easily tell that it would be grounded
by the switch. (Turns out this is normal) If you hook it all up, except
for the mag P-Lead, you can indeed see that they ground the way their
supposed to by using your ohmmeter.
I also have this posted on my Electrical Tips section on my site.
Tim
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
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ScooterF15
Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 136
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| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:17 am Post subject: Lightspeed with Keyswitch and 1 Mag Wiring |
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I have a similar, but slightly different solution for this. I have an IO-540 with a single (left) mag with impulse coupler and a Lightspeed II+. I am using the standard Van's key switch for the ignition. I am starting using the Lightspeed.
Since I'm starting on the Lightspeed I want to ground out (disable) the Left mag during start. If you connect the mag to the R-terminal with jumper to GRN-terminal installed, the mag will be grounded out during start. I connected the L-terminal to the keyswitch option on the Lightspeed. All other keyswitch connections were normal per the instructions included. Then (this is important) I relabeled the key switch. It now says OFF-L-E-BOTH-START (L for left mag and E for electronic ignition).
-Jim
40134
In a message dated 7/5/2006 9:54:13 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, Tim(at)MyRV10.com writes:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
This is a repost of previous info. I had a builder ask me about it
and I couldn't find it in the archives well, so I thought I'd
resend it with a good subject line.
-----
Wiring a Keyswitch Ignition - Lightspeed Plasma III/II+ ignition and a Mag
Another non-RV10 builder, Dave Sundberg passed this on to me previously,
and I wired mine this way and it indeed works fine. It does seem a bit
like black magic, but seeing as it works fine I won't be complaining.
Test it out before and after you run the engine, but it should work fine.
The configuration is a Mag on the Left side, feeding the lower plugs,
and a Lightspeed Plasma III (or II+) feeding the top plugs as the Right
system. Note that allthough Lightspeed calls it a keyswitch "Option",
it's always on the system, just optional to connect.
* The P-Lead from the Mag goes to the L-Terminal on the Switch with
the shield connected to the GRN terminal on the mag and not connected to
anything on the switch end.
* The P-Lead from the LS (Pin 1) goes to the R-Terminal on the
switch and the shield (Pin 9) goes to the GRN-Terminal in the center of
the switch.
* Do not connect the jumper from the R-Term to the GRN-Terminal
next to it.
* Do not connect the center GRN-Terminal on the switch to aircraft
ground. Both ignitions are grounded out with the switch in the OFF position.
Dave had been flying and it was working for him. I am flying too and
it's working great for me. I had previously spent time hooking mine up
and ohming things out and was confused as heck. I also was confused in
that the P-Lead on the mag is seemingly shorted to ground even with the
wire disconnected, so I couldn't easily tell that it would be grounded
by the switch. (Turns out this is normal) If you hook it all up, except
for the mag P-Lead, you can indeed see that they ground the way their
supposed to by using your ohmmeter.
I also have this posted on my Electrical Tips section on my site.
Tim
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - ========================= es Day
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Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:59 am Post subject: Lightspeed with Keyswitch and 1 Mag Wiring |
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I was hoping I'd hear some input on this. Thanks Jim.
Question: Why did you want to ground the mag during start?
I've been starting on both and it's been starting very
well. Is there something bad about starting with both?
I see why you included "this is important" on the relabeling
portion, as the standard operation is: OFF-R-L-BOTH-START
so the "E" isn't taking place of the "R", it's taking place
of the "L" and the "L" is where the "R" is normally.
One more question: From what you can tell then, the
NORMALLY RIGHT mag portion is grounded during start,
correct? This is the problem I tried to overcome. The
switching diagram provided really doesn't seem to indicate
exactly what is going on. I didn't find that the switch,
if wired "normally" without the "GND" jumper in place,
would allow for proper operation in all modes. I believe
it was START that was the one that didn't behave.
Also, another builder contacted me off-list who believes
the way I have it wired may be using the switch's case
as the ground, and that it wouldn't be safe if the ground
wasn't solid. I'm not sure if this is or isn't true. The
original guy who gave me the tip, and I myself, seem to
think that the ground source might be the Lightspeed
itself. Not 100% sure about this though. The only
100% sure thing I am, is that at least the way it's wired
right now it operates the way I want it to. Left and
Right are grounded when the opposite is chosen, both
ungrounds both, and so does start. And most importantly,
they are both grounded when OFF is chosen.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
JSMcGrew(at)aol.com wrote:
| Quote: | I have a similar, but slightly different solution for this. I have an
IO-540 with a single (left) mag with impulse coupler and a Lightspeed
II+. I am using the standard Van's key switch for the ignition. I am
starting using the Lightspeed.
Since I'm starting on the Lightspeed I want to ground out (disable) the
Left mag during start. If you connect the mag to the R-terminal with
jumper to GRN-terminal installed, the mag will be grounded out during
start. I connected the L-terminal to the keyswitch option on the
Lightspeed. All other keyswitch connections were normal per the
instructions included. Then (this is important) I relabeled the key
switch. It now says OFF-L-E-BOTH-START (L for left mag and E for
electronic ignition).
-Jim
40134
In a message dated 7/5/2006 9:54:13 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
Tim(at)MyRV10.com writes:
This is a repost of previous info. I had a builder ask me about it
and I couldn't find it in the archives well, so I thought I'd
resend it with a good subject line.
-----
Wiring a Keyswitch Ignition - Lightspeed Plasma III/II+ ignition and
a Mag
Another non-RV10 builder, Dave Sundberg passed this on to me
previously,
and I wired mine this way and it indeed works fine. It does seem a bit
like black magic, but seeing as it works fine I won't be complaining.
Test it out before and after you run the engine, but it should work
fine.
The configuration is a Mag on the Left side, feeding the lower plugs,
and a Lightspeed Plasma III (or II+) feeding the top plugs as the Right
system. Note that allthough Lightspeed calls it a keyswitch "Option",
it's always on the system, just optional to connect.
* The P-Lead from the Mag goes to the L-Terminal on the Switch
with
the shield connected to the GRN terminal on the mag and not
connected to
anything on the switch end.
* The P-Lead from the LS (Pin 1) goes to the R-Terminal on the
switch and the shield (Pin 9) goes to the GRN-Terminal in the center of
the switch.
* Do not connect the jumper from the R-Term to the GRN-Terminal
next to it.
* Do not connect the center GRN-Terminal on the switch to aircraft
ground. Both ignitions are grounded out with the switch in the OFF
position.
Dave had been flying and it was working for him. I am flying too and
it's working great for me. I had previously spent time hooking mine up
and ohming things out and was confused as heck. I also was confused in
that the P-Lead on the mag is seemingly shorted to ground even with
the
wire disconnected, so I couldn't easily tell that it would be grounded
by the switch. (Turns out this is normal) If you hook it all up,
except
for the mag P-Lead, you can indeed see that they ground the way their
supposed to by using your ohmmeter.
I also have this posted on my Electrical Tips section on my site.
Tim
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - ========================= es Day
--> ================================================== -
NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
- List Contribution Web Site
==================================================
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ScooterF15
Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 136
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:58 pm Post subject: Lightspeed with Keyswitch and 1 Mag Wiring |
|
|
Tim
I'm not an expert, but it is my understanding when you are retarding the spark for starting it is best to only have one system doing that for you. I suppose if the impulse mag and electronic ignition are doing approximately the same thing you would never know the difference.
I spent a lot of time with a multi-meter and the ignition switch. I don't have it or my notes in front of me right now, but I recall that there are 2 GRN-terminals (as far as I could tell they are labeled exactly the same) - one is in the center (for connection to aircraft ground) and one is for the jumper to the R-terminal. In the START position the GRN-terminal next to the R terminal is internally connected to the center aircraft ground GRN-terminal - so if the jumper is in place, the R-terminal will be grounded. Without the jumper it will not be grounded.
If you are still with me, here is what I found to be strange: In R - L or BOTH the R-terminal is INTERNALLY connected to the GRN-terminal (the one next to the R-terminal), however the internal connection with the aircraft ground GRN terminal has been broken. What I am getting at, is if you were to put a jumper from the L-terminal to the GRN terminal thinking that you were going to start on the right mag and ground out the left mag, it wouldn't quite work that way and you would have trouble when doing a mag check (as the L and R terminal would be connected together). This is why I ended up switching L for R and E for L on the markings.
I realize that this isn't the exact problem that you are having, but I think the way yours is set up is related to the unexpected internal connections inside the switch. I'm not certain whether your ground is coming from the switch case or the LS, but it doesn't seem right to not be grounded to aircraft ground.
All that and now I must caveat this with the fact that, although my ignition system works great on paper and with a multi-meter... I haven't started it yet. I'll let you know.
-Jim
40134
In a message dated 7/6/2006 12:02:38 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, Tim(at)MyRV10.com writes:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
I was hoping I'd hear some input on this. Thanks Jim.
Question: Why did you want to ground the mag during start?
I've been starting on both and it's been starting very
well. Is there something bad about starting with both?
I see why you included "this is important" on the relabeling
portion, as the standard operation is: OFF-R-L-BOTH-START
so the "E" isn't taking place of the "R", it's taking place
of the "L" and the "L" is where the "R" is normally.
One more question: From what you can tell then, the
NORMALLY RIGHT mag portion is grounded during start,
correct? This is the problem I tried to overcome. The
switching diagram provided really doesn't seem to indicate
exactly what is going on. I didn't find that the switch,
if wired "normally" without the "GND" jumper in place,
would allow for proper operation in all modes. I believe
it was START that was the one that didn't behave.
Also, another builder contacted me off-list who believes
the way I have it wired may be using the switch's case
as the ground, and that it wouldn't be safe if the ground
wasn't solid. I'm not sure if this is or isn't true. The
original guy who gave me the tip, and I myself, seem to
think that the ground source might be the Lightspeed
itself. Not 100% sure about this though. The only
100% sure thing I am, is that at least the way it's wired
right now it operates the way I want it to. Left and
Right are grounded when the opposite is chosen, both
ungrounds both, and so does start. And most importantly,
they are both grounded when OFF is chosen.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
JSMcGrew(at)aol.com wrote:
| Quote: | I have a similar, but slightly different solution for this. I have an
IO-540 with a single (left) mag with impulse coupler and a Lightspeed
II+. I am using the standard Van's key switch for the ignition. I am
starting using the Lightspeed.
Since I'm starting on the Lightspeed I want to ground out (disable) the
Left mag during start. If you connect the mag to the R-terminal with
jumper to GRN-terminal installed, the mag will be grounded out during
start. I connected the L-terminal to the keyswitch option on the
Lightspeed. All other keyswitch connections were normal per the
instructions included. Then (this is important) I relabeled the key
switch. It now says OFF-L-E-BOTH-START (L for left mag and E for
electronic ignition).
-Jim
40134
In a message dated 7/5/2006 9:54:13 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
Tim(at)MyRV10.com writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
This is a repost of previous info. I had a builder ask me about it
and I couldn't find it in the archives well, so I thought I'd
resend it with a good subject line.
-----
Wiring a Keyswitch Ignition - Lightspeed Plasma III/II+ ignition and
a Mag
Another non-RV10 builder, Dave Sundberg passed this on to me
previously,
and I wired mine this way and it indeed works fine. It does seem a bit
like black magic, but seeing as it works fine I won't be complaining.
Test it out before and after you run the engine, but it should work
fine.
The configuration is a Mag on the Left side, feeding the lower plugs,
and a Lightspeed Plasma III (or II+) feeding the top plugs as the Right
system. Note that allthough Lightspeed calls it a keyswitch "Option",
it's always on the system, just optional to connect.
* The P-Lead from the Mag goes to the L-Terminal on the Switch
with
the shield connected to the GRN terminal on the mag and not
connected to
anything on the switch end.
* The P-Lead from the LS (Pin 1) goes to the R-Terminal on the
switch and the shield (Pin 9) goes to the GRN-Terminal in the center of
the switch.
* Do not connect the jumper from the R-Term to the GRN-Terminal
next to it.
* Do not connect the center GRN-Terminal on the switch to aircraft
ground. Both ignitions are grounded out with the switch in the OFF
position.
Dave had been flying and it was working for him. I am flying too and
it's working great for me. I had previously spent time hooking mine up
and ohming things out and was confused as heck. I also was confused in
that the P-Lead on the mag is seemingly shorted to ground even with
the
wire disconnected, so I couldn't easily tell that it would be grounded
by the switch. (Turns out this is normal) If you hook it all up,
except
for the mag P-Lead, you can indeed see that they ground the way their
supposed to by using your ohmmeter.
I also have this posted on my Electrical Tips section on my site.
Tim
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - ========================= es Day
--> ================================================== -
NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
- List Contribution Web Site
==================================================
========================= es Day
--> ================================================== - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
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_-= sp; -> =========================p; - List Contribution Web Site ==================================================
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:41 pm Post subject: Lightspeed with Keyswitch and 1 Mag Wiring |
|
|
Without getting into the details of the switch per se....the switches
are manufactured to allow you the choice of starting on both mags or on
left mag only. I don't believe right mag only is an option.
This originates with certified aircraft, where you can have a shower of
sparks ignition on the left mag, and no retard on the right, or you can
have impulse coupling on the left mag and none on the right, or you can
have two impulse coupled mags. You want any mag (or electronic
equivalent) that fires during cranking to do so at TDC. If a mag fires
at the normal 20-25 degrees during cranking, you risk a cylinder firing
enough before TDC to drive the engine backwards, also called a
kickback..which can destroy your starter and vacuum pump. This is
prevented by having the right mag grounded during the time the key is in
the start position, and the left mag fired by retard breaker or impulse
coupling.
Obviously your experimental doesn't have to adhere to convention, but it
is harder to swim upstream when the boat points the other way.
Tim Olson wrote:
| Quote: |
I was hoping I'd hear some input on this. Thanks Jim.
Question: Why did you want to ground the mag during start?
I've been starting on both and it's been starting very
well. Is there something bad about starting with both?
I see why you included "this is important" on the relabeling
portion, as the standard operation is: OFF-R-L-BOTH-START
so the "E" isn't taking place of the "R", it's taking place
of the "L" and the "L" is where the "R" is normally.
One more question: From what you can tell then, the
NORMALLY RIGHT mag portion is grounded during start,
correct? This is the problem I tried to overcome. The
switching diagram provided really doesn't seem to indicate
exactly what is going on. I didn't find that the switch,
if wired "normally" without the "GND" jumper in place,
would allow for proper operation in all modes. I believe
it was START that was the one that didn't behave.
Also, another builder contacted me off-list who believes
the way I have it wired may be using the switch's case
as the ground, and that it wouldn't be safe if the ground
wasn't solid. I'm not sure if this is or isn't true. The
original guy who gave me the tip, and I myself, seem to
think that the ground source might be the Lightspeed
itself. Not 100% sure about this though. The only
100% sure thing I am, is that at least the way it's wired
right now it operates the way I want it to. Left and
Right are grounded when the opposite is chosen, both
ungrounds both, and so does start. And most importantly,
they are both grounded when OFF is chosen.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
JSMcGrew(at)aol.com wrote:
> I have a similar, but slightly different solution for this. I have an
> IO-540 with a single (left) mag with impulse coupler and a Lightspeed
> II+. I am using the standard Van's key switch for the ignition. I am
> starting using the Lightspeed.
>
> Since I'm starting on the Lightspeed I want to ground out (disable)
> the Left mag during start. If you connect the mag to the R-terminal
> with jumper to GRN-terminal installed, the mag will be grounded out
> during start. I connected the L-terminal to the keyswitch option on
> the Lightspeed. All other keyswitch connections were normal per the
> instructions included. Then (this is important) I relabeled the key
> switch. It now says OFF-L-E-BOTH-START (L for left mag and E for
> electronic ignition).
>
> -Jim
> 40134
>
> In a message dated 7/5/2006 9:54:13 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
> Tim(at)MyRV10.com writes:
>
>
>
> This is a repost of previous info. I had a builder ask me about it
> and I couldn't find it in the archives well, so I thought I'd
> resend it with a good subject line.
>
> -----
>
> Wiring a Keyswitch Ignition - Lightspeed Plasma III/II+ ignition and
> a Mag
>
> Another non-RV10 builder, Dave Sundberg passed this on to me
> previously,
> and I wired mine this way and it indeed works fine. It does seem
> a bit
> like black magic, but seeing as it works fine I won't be
> complaining.
> Test it out before and after you run the engine, but it should work
> fine.
> The configuration is a Mag on the Left side, feeding the lower
> plugs,
> and a Lightspeed Plasma III (or II+) feeding the top plugs as the
> Right
> system. Note that allthough Lightspeed calls it a keyswitch
> "Option",
> it's always on the system, just optional to connect.
>
> * The P-Lead from the Mag goes to the L-Terminal on the Switch
> with
> the shield connected to the GRN terminal on the mag and not
> connected to
> anything on the switch end.
> * The P-Lead from the LS (Pin 1) goes to the R-Terminal on the
> switch and the shield (Pin 9) goes to the GRN-Terminal in the
> center of
> the switch.
> * Do not connect the jumper from the R-Term to the GRN-Terminal
> next to it.
> * Do not connect the center GRN-Terminal on the switch to
> aircraft
> ground. Both ignitions are grounded out with the switch in the OFF
> position.
>
> Dave had been flying and it was working for him. I am flying too
> and
> it's working great for me. I had previously spent time hooking
> mine up
> and ohming things out and was confused as heck. I also was
> confused in
> that the P-Lead on the mag is seemingly shorted to ground even with
> the
> wire disconnected, so I couldn't easily tell that it would be
> grounded
> by the switch. (Turns out this is normal) If you hook it all up,
> except
> for the mag P-Lead, you can indeed see that they ground the way
> their
> supposed to by using your ohmmeter.
>
> I also have this posted on my Electrical Tips section on my site.
> Tim
>
> -- Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - ========================= es
> Day -->
> ================================================== -
> NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
> - List Contribution Web Site
> ==================================================
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://wiki.matronics.com
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A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
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