 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
ch601xl(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
 Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:15 pm Post subject: Dynon on Corvair engine |
 |
|
"this corvair stuff is just dumb" meant the Back and forth about it...Not that the corvair in dumb..."Corvair people come off as rude...That is what is hurting the engine the most" Is true. Read phil's post. If I wanted to knock the corvair, I would do so on my website. But I don't, in fact I have a link to the corvair website. If I felt the engine was bad I would not link to it. I see now that the corvair folks are not willing to help me understand the engine I have an interest in. When that happens, I look elsewhere. I will from now on post questions to my website about the corvair to keep the list clear. Anyone wanting to help me with corvair can post a comment on the site. Sorry for getting this started, I thought that I could get help here.
On 7/6/06, Rick Lindstrom <tigerrick(at)mindspring.com (tigerrick(at)mindspring.com)> wrote: | Quote: | Hi, Chris, et al:
Sure, the Corvair engine has its share of downsides. So does every other aero engine flying, including certificated ones. And that's the beauty of the experimental category - we get to experiment, just as the name implies, with various airframe and powerplant solutions.
So blanket statements like "...this corvair stuff is just dumb", "...most who choose it is for the cost savings", and "Corvair people come off as rude...That is what is hurting the engine the most" are sure to raise the ire of those of us who have done the research, looked at the options, heard the word from on high, and made the decision to build up one of these beautiful little powerplants from a formerly automotive Corvair.
In my case, I first chose the engine (cost was NOT a factor), and then went out looking for the right airframe to stick on the back of it. I'm more than convinced of its reliability and its suitably to haul my ample butt around, having read the conversion manual, talked to other Corvair flyers about their experiences, and spent considerable time with the man who has invested a considerable amount of his life bringing the engine to the aviation market.
In this little corner of aviation, blanket statements get shot down with alarming regularity given the variables inherent in each individual installation. And those statements do little to further the legitimate educational dialogue, but tend to just polarize folks into "pro" and "anti" camps. (Besides, it's just not friendly to imply that someone's an idiot after making an informed choice, when your own research is a bit lacking.)
And, I've had a forced landing due to an exhaust valve breaking up in a Lycoming O-360A4K. I do know of a couple of Corvair engines that failed in flight, but I also know that putting excessive loads on any certified or non-certified crankshaft will eventually cause a failure. Look at the rash of recent ADs concerning crankshaft retirement from Lycoming!
So, forgive us if we defend our engine choice with passion. To do otherwise would indicate that we're really not capable of independent thought, and are content to only fly behind brand C or brand L engines for the remainder of our dull, uninspired, sheep-like lives.
Rick Lindstrom
Corvair / 601XL
Christopher Smith wrote:
| Quote: | I know I am new to the list but this corvair stuff is just dumb. It seems no one can say the corvair has it's downsides. It has lots of downsides, that's because it's a car engine. But the reason most who choose it is for the cost savings. The engine does not have the data to prove it's reliability. Too few are flying. But I will wager that if you look at the engine failures per capita against a certified engines, it fails more often. One thing is clear.....Corvair people come off as rude when defending the choice. That is what is hurting the engine the most.
On 7/6/06, Phil Maxson <pmaxpmax(at)hotmail.com (pmaxpmax(at)hotmail.com)> wrote: | Quote: | --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" <pmaxpmax(at)hotmail.com (pmaxpmax(at)hotmail.com)>
Paul,
No offense intended, but you are showing your ignorance about the Corvair
conversion. I'm flying one.
If it is as you say, "not clear to you", why don't you accept the input of
experts and those who have been flying for years?
On second thought, don't answer that. Some people like one engine better
than another. In the future, could you please leave the Corvair discussion
to us who are interested in building and flying Corvair engines?
Phil Maxson
601XL/Corvair
Northwest New Jersey
75 hours
>From: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net (p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net)>
>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com (zenith-list(at)matronics.com)
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com (zenith-list(at)matronics.com)
>Subject: RE: Re: Dynon on Corvair engine
>Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 11:32:15 -0700
>
>It is not clear to me whether Mr. Wynne's dual coil ignition system
|
--
Christopher W. E. Smith
fly1m1
http://ch-601xl.com |
|
--
Christopher W. E. Smith
fly1m1
http://ch-601xl.com
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
ch601xl(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:17 pm Post subject: Dynon on Corvair engine |
|
|
At no time did I say anything about your choice. I was hoping you guys would help me with mine. Again, Sorry & enjoy the dvd.
On 7/6/06, LHusky(at)aol.com (LHusky(at)aol.com) <LHusky(at)aol.com (LHusky(at)aol.com)> wrote: | Quote: | WOW! I am planning on using a Corvair engine, but at no time have I came off rude when talking to anyone in this group about the engine. Your statement is what is RUDE! If you don't have anything nice to say, go join the LYCOMING PEOPLE group and be rude there. No, I am not defending my choice of engine. I could care less what you think of my choice. That is why it is my choice. I am defending the fact that not ALL Corvair people are RUDE!
|
--
Christopher W. E. Smith
fly1m1
http://ch-601xl.com
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
barcusc(at)comcast.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:21 pm Post subject: Dynon on Corvair engine |
|
|
I think some are missing the real point of this list!!!!!! Good information is what we need.
First and foremost we are Pilots pursuing a passion, to build and fly our own airplane. It doesn't make one bit of difference to me what engine you have up front, you are a fellow builder, period! This list has provided valuable information to me from time and time and to several of my friends. When someone ask for information on a specific engine, instruments, whatever, that's what they need. Unless you have significant experience in that field your opinion on that specific question is probably not needed or wanted. Paul's opinion on auto conversions does not help someone looking for an answer to a serious question. I will be using a corvair, I have never said it is the best choice but for me personally I think auto conversions help make it affordable for a lot more people. The Corvair people I know are far from rude, William Wynne, Mark Langford and numerous others share everything to help make our choice as safe as it can be and it is based on flying experience, not opinion. If you choose a Lycoming or auto conversion you still need good information to build an airplane unless you have been there before with that specific engine choice. Last point! Years ago, I owned a Tiger with a 180 hp Lycoming, it didn't help one damn bit that it was certified, it quit and cost a lot to get it repaired. Lycoming did accept the responsibility and reimbursed me months later.
Clyde Barcus
601XL, Corvair Powered
Do Not Archive
[quote] ---
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
admin(at)arachnidrobotics
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:22 pm Post subject: Dynon on Corvair engine |
|
|
When looking for help, one does not usually run into the room and shout, "You're all rude, and your engines fail more than those other ones!". Just aks, and you'll get it. 
Christopher Smith <ch601xl(at)gmail.com> wrote: | Quote: | "this corvair stuff is just dumb" meant the Back and forth about it...Not that the corvair in dumb..."Corvair people come off as rude...That is what is hurting the engine the most" Is true. Read phil's post. If I wanted to knock the corvair, I would do so on my website. But I don't, in fact I have a link to the corvair website. If I felt the engine was bad I would not link to it. I see now that the corvair folks are not willing to help me understand the engine I have an interest in. When that happens, I look elsewhere. I will from now on post questions to my website about the corvair to keep the list clear. Anyone wanting to help me with corvair can post a comment on the site. Sorry for getting this started, I thought that I could get help here.
On 7/6/06, Rick Lindstrom <tigerrick(at)mindspring.com (tigerrick(at)mindspring.com)> wrote: | Quote: | Hi, Chris, et al:
Sure, the Corvair engine has its share of downsides. So does every other aero engine flying, including certificated ones. And that's the beauty of the experimental category - we get to experiment, just as the name implies, with various airframe and powerplant solutions.
So blanket statements like "...this corvair stuff is just dumb", "...most who choose it is for the cost savings", and "Corvair people come off as rude...That is what is hurting the engine the most" are sure to raise the ire of those of us who have done the research, looked at the options, heard the word from on high, and made the decision to build up one of these beautiful little powerplants from a formerly automotive Corvair.
In my case, I first chose the engine (cost was NOT a factor), and then went out looking for the right airframe to stick on the back of it. I'm more than convinced of its reliability and its suitably to haul my ample butt around, having read the conversion manual, talked to other Corvair flyers about their experiences, and spent considerable time with the man who has invested a considerable amount of his life bringing the engine to the aviation market.
In this little corner of aviation, blanket statements get shot down with alarming regularity given the variables inherent in each individual installation. And those statements do little to further the legitimate educational dialogue, but tend to just polarize folks into "pro" and "anti" camps. (Besides, it's just not friendly to imply that someone's an idiot after making an informed choice, when your own research is a bit lacking.)
And, I've had a forced landing due to an exhaust valve breaking up in a Lycoming O-360A4K. I do know of a couple of Corvair engines that failed in flight, but I also know that putting excessive loads on any certified or non-certified crankshaft will eventually cause a failure. Look at the rash of recent ADs concerning crankshaft retirement from Lycoming!
So, forgive us if we defend our engine choice with passion. To do otherwise would indicate that we're really not capable of independent thought, and are content to only fly behind brand C or brand L engines for the remainder of our dull, uninspired, sheep-like lives.
Rick Lindstrom
Corvair / 601XL
Christopher Smith wrote:
| Quote: | I know I am new to the list but this corvair stuff is just dumb. It seems no one can say the corvair has it's downsides. It has lots of downsides, that's because it's a car engine. But the reason most who choose it is for the cost savings. The engine does not have the data to prove it's reliability. Too few are flying. But I will wager that if you look at the engine failures per capita against a certified engines, it fails more often. One thing is clear.....Corvair people come off as rude when defending the choice. That is what is hurting the engine the most.
On 7/6/06, Phil Maxson <pmaxpmax(at)hotmail.com (pmaxpmax(at)hotmail.com)> wrote: | Quote: | --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" <pmaxpmax(at)hotmail.com (pmaxpmax(at)hotmail.com)>
Paul,
No offense intended, but you are showing your ignorance about the Corvair
conversion. I'm flying one.
If it is as you say, "not clear to you", why don't you accept the input of
experts and those who have been flying for years?
On second thought, don't answer that. Some people like one engine better
than another. In the future, could you please leave the Corvair discussion
to us who are interested in building and flying Corvair engines?
Phil Maxson
601XL/Corvair
Northwest New Jersey
75 hours
>From: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net (p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net)>
>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com (zenith-list(at)matronics.com)
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com (zenith-list(at)matronics.com)
>Subject: RE: Re: Dynon on Corvair engine
>Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 11:32:15 -0700
>
>It is not clear to me whether Mr. Wynne's dual coil ignition system
|
--
Christopher W. E. Smith
fly1m1
http://ch-601xl.com |
|
--
Christopher W. E. Smith
fly1m1
http://ch-601xl.com |
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jhstarn(at)verizon.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:27 pm Post subject: Dynon on Corvair engine |
|
|
Me thinks he complains too loudly......Mis quote from Willie the Shake. 8*)
Easy guys we are ALL just trying to learn from one another rather than re-inventing the wheel everytime someone get the building bug. KABONG Do Not Archive
[quote] ---
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
daberti(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:35 pm Post subject: Dynon on Corvair engine |
|
|
Not on a Rotax!
--
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ch601xl(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:43 pm Post subject: Dynon on Corvair engine |
|
|
Paul's opinion on auto conversions does not help someone looking for an answer to a serious question. Really, Cus I have the same question! He said " It is not clear to me whether Mr. Wynne's dual coil ignition system increases the reliability of the Corvair engine or reduces it." Did anyone answer? No. Did he get ripped a new one? Yes. "No offense intended, but you are showing your ignorance about the Corvair conversion. I'm flying one.
If it is as you say, "not clear to you", why don't you accept the input of
experts and those who have been flying for years?
On second thought, don't answer that. Some people like one engine better
than another. In the future, could you please leave the Corvair discussion
to us who are interested in building and flying Corvair engines?
On 7/6/06, Clyde Barcus <barcusc(at)comcast.net (barcusc(at)comcast.net)> wrote:[quote] I think some are missing the real point of this list!!!!!! Good information is what we need.
First and foremost we are Pilots pursuing a passion, to build and fly our own airplane. It doesn't make one bit of difference to me what engine you have up front, you are a fellow builder, period! This list has provided valuable information to me from time and time and to several of my friends. When someone ask for information on a specific engine, instruments, whatever, that's what they need. Unless you have significant experience in that field your opinion on that specific question is probably not needed or wanted. Paul's opinion on auto conversions does not help someone looking for an answer to a serious question. I will be using a corvair, I have never said it is the best choice but for me personally I think auto conversions help make it affordable for a lot more people. The Corvair people I know are far from rude, William Wynne, Mark Langford and numerous others share everything to help make our choice as safe as it can be and it is based on flying experience, not opinion. If you choose a Lycoming or auto conversion you still need good information to build an airplane unless you have been there before with that specific engine choice. Last point! Years ago, I owned a Tiger with a 180 hp Lycoming, it didn't help one damn bit that it was certified, it quit and cost a lot to get it repaired. Lycoming did accept the responsibility and reimbursed me months later.
Clyde Barcus
601XL, Corvair Powered
Do Not Archive
---
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ch601xl(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:46 pm Post subject: Dynon on Corvair engine |
|
|
"Just aks, and you'll get it. " The question has been ask. Still no reponse.
On 7/6/06, Tom and Bren Henderson < admin(at)arachnidrobotics.com (admin(at)arachnidrobotics.com)> wrote: | Quote: | When looking for help, one does not usually run into the room and shout, "You're all rude, and your engines fail more than those other ones!". Just aks, and you'll get it.
Christopher Smith <ch601xl(at)gmail.com (ch601xl(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
"this corvair stuff is just dumb" meant the Back and forth about it...Not that the corvair in dumb..."Corvair people come off as rude...That is what is hurting the engine the most" Is true. Read phil's post. If I wanted to knock the corvair, I would do so on my website. But I don't, in fact I have a link to the corvair website. If I felt the engine was bad I would not link to it. I see now that the corvair folks are not willing to help me understand the engine I have an interest in. When that happens, I look elsewhere. I will from now on post questions to my website about the corvair to keep the list clear. Anyone wanting to help me with corvair can post a comment on the site. Sorry for getting this started, I thought that I could get help here.
On 7/6/06, Rick Lindstrom <tigerrick(at)mindspring.com (tigerrick(at)mindspring.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Hi, Chris, et al:
Sure, the Corvair engine has its share of downsides. So does every other aero engine flying, including certificated ones. And that's the beauty of the experimental category - we get to experiment, just as the name implies, with various airframe and powerplant solutions.
So blanket statements like "...this corvair stuff is just dumb", "...most who choose it is for the cost savings", and "Corvair people come off as rude...That is what is hurting the engine the most" are sure to raise the ire of those of us who have done the research, looked at the options, heard the word from on high, and made the decision to build up one of these beautiful little powerplants from a formerly automotive Corvair.
In my case, I first chose the engine (cost was NOT a factor), and then went out looking for the right airframe to stick on the back of it. I'm more than convinced of its reliability and its suitably to haul my ample butt around, having read the conversion manual, talked to other Corvair flyers about their experiences, and spent considerable time with the man who has invested a considerable amount of his life bringing the engine to the aviation market.
In this little corner of aviation, blanket statements get shot down with alarming regularity given the variables inherent in each individual installation. And those statements do little to further the legitimate educational dialogue, but tend to just polarize folks into "pro" and "anti" camps. (Besides, it's just not friendly to imply that someone's an idiot after making an informed choice, when your own research is a bit lacking.)
And, I've had a forced landing due to an exhaust valve breaking up in a Lycoming O-360A4K. I do know of a couple of Corvair engines that failed in flight, but I also know that putting excessive loads on any certified or non-certified crankshaft will eventually cause a failure. Look at the rash of recent ADs concerning crankshaft retirement from Lycoming!
So, forgive us if we defend our engine choice with passion. To do otherwise would indicate that we're really not capable of independent thought, and are content to only fly behind brand C or brand L engines for the remainder of our dull, uninspired, sheep-like lives.
Rick Lindstrom
Corvair / 601XL
Christopher Smith wrote:
I know I am new to the list but this corvair stuff is just dumb. It seems no one can say the corvair has it's downsides. It has lots of downsides, that's because it's a car engine. But the reason most who choose it is for the cost savings. The engine does not have the data to prove it's reliability. Too few are flying. But I will wager that if you look at the engine failures per capita against a certified engines, it fails more often. One thing is clear.....Corvair people come off as rude when defending the choice. That is what is hurting the engine the most.
On 7/6/06, Phil Maxson < pmaxpmax(at)hotmail.com (pmaxpmax(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" < pmaxpmax(at)hotmail.com (pmaxpmax(at)hotmail.com)>
Paul,
No offense intended, but you are showing your ignorance about the Corvair
conversion. I'm flying one.
If it is as you say, "not clear to you", why don't you accept the input of
experts and those who have been flying for years?
On second thought, don't answer that. Some people like one engine better
than another. In the future, could you please leave the Corvair discussion
to us who are interested in building and flying Corvair engines?
Phil Maxson
601XL/Corvair
Northwest New Jersey
75 hours
>From: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net (p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net)>
>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com (zenith-list(at)matronics.com)
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com (zenith-list(at)matronics.com)
>Subject: RE: Re: Dynon on Corvair engine
>Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 11:32:15 -0700
>
>It is not clear to me whether Mr. Wynne's dual coil ignition system
|
--
Christopher W. E. Smith
fly1m1
http://ch-601xl.com
|
--
Christopher W. E. Smith
fly1m1
http://ch-601xl.com
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
601zv(at)ritternet.com
Guest
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ch601xl(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:13 pm Post subject: Dynon on Corvair engine |
|
|
Thank you. I have read alot on the corvair website by WW. I will have to check out CorvAircraft's website for it is new to me. I was just asking about info I could not find on the corvair site. But trust me, I have learned my lesson, & will save Corvair questions for my own site. Thank you again for your help.
On 7/6/06, Robin Bellach <601zv(at)ritternet.com (601zv(at)ritternet.com)> wrote:[quote] If you don't find enough information at FlyCorvair.Com, check out the CorvairCraft list:
search the CorvAircraft archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/corvairsrch/index.jsp
Other CorvAircraft list info is at http://www.krnet.org/corvaircraft_inst.html
---
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tigerrick(at)mindspring.c
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:22 pm Post subject: Dynon on Corvair engine |
|
|
Upon your suggestion, Chris, I went back and read Phil's post again.
Yep, he took offense at a prior post. And, he responded to what he perceived as an attack on the wisdom of flying behind a Corvair.
I know Phil. He's not a bad guy. And he'll even pick up a lunch tab occasionally. But he IS from New Jersey. So you have to cut him a bit a slack. 
You are in the right place to ask questions and get valid responses. But lumping all Corvair guys together as to their engine motivations and attitudes does tend to chafe a bit, and really doesn't help move the ball down the field for anyone.
Well, I'm off to my local biker bar to ask the other fine patrons why their Harleys suck so badly when compared to the latest in crotch rockets from Japan and the European Union...
Again -
Rick
Christopher Smith wrote:
| Quote: | "this corvair stuff is just dumb" meant the Back and forth about it...Not that the corvair in dumb..."Corvair people come off as rude...That is what is hurting the engine the most" Is true. Read phil's post. If I wanted to knock the corvair, I would do so on my website. But I don't, in fact I have a link to the corvair website. If I felt the engine was bad I would not link to it. I see now that the corvair folks are not willing to help me understand the engine I have an interest in. When that happens, I look elsewhere. I will from now on post questions to my website about the corvair to keep the list clear. Anyone wanting to help me with corvair can post a comment on the site. Sorry for getting this started, I thought that I could get help here.
On 7/6/06, Rick Lindstrom <tigerrick(at)mindspring.com (tigerrick(at)mindspring.com)> wrote: | Quote: | Hi, Chris, et al:
Sure, the Corvair engine has its share of downsides. So does every other aero engine flying, including certificated ones. And that's the beauty of the experimental category - we get to experiment, just as the name implies, with various airframe and powerplant solutions.
So blanket statements like "...this corvair stuff is just dumb", "...most who choose it is for the cost savings", and "Corvair people come off as rude...That is what is hurting the engine the most" are sure to raise the ire of those of us who have done the research, looked at the options, heard the word from on high, and made the decision to build up one of these beautiful little powerplants from a formerly automotive Corvair.
In my case, I first chose the engine (cost was NOT a factor), and then went out looking for the right airframe to stick on the back of it. I'm more than convinced of its reliability and its suitably to haul my ample butt around, having read the conversion manual, talked to other Corvair flyers about their experiences, and spent considerable time with the man who has invested a considerable amount of his life bringing the engine to the aviation market.
In this little corner of aviation, blanket statements get shot down with alarming regularity given the variables inherent in each individual installation. And those statements do little to further the legitimate educational dialogue, but tend to just polarize folks into "pro" and "anti" camps. (Besides, it's just not friendly to imply that someone's an idiot after making an informed choice, when your own research is a bit lacking.)
And, I've had a forced landing due to an exhaust valve breaking up in a Lycoming O-360A4K. I do know of a couple of Corvair engines that failed in flight, but I also know that putting excessive loads on any certified or non-certified crankshaft will eventually cause a failure. Look at the rash of recent ADs concerning crankshaft retirement from Lycoming!
So, forgive us if we defend our engine choice with passion. To do otherwise would indicate that we're really not capable of independent thought, and are content to only fly behind brand C or brand L engines for the remainder of our dull, uninspired, sheep-like lives.
Rick Lindstrom
Corvair / 601XL
Christopher Smith wrote:
| Quote: | I know I am new to the list but this corvair stuff is just dumb. It seems no one can say the corvair has it's downsides. It has lots of downsides, that's because it's a car engine. But the reason most who choose it is for the cost savings. The engine does not have the data to prove it's reliability. Too few are flying. But I will wager that if you look at the engine failures per capita against a certified engines, it fails more often. One thing is clear.....Corvair people come off as rude when defending the choice. That is what is hurting the engine the most.
On 7/6/06, Phil Maxson <pmaxpmax(at)hotmail.com (pmaxpmax(at)hotmail.com)> wrote: | Quote: | --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" <pmaxpmax(at)hotmail.com (pmaxpmax(at)hotmail.com)>
Paul,
No offense intended, but you are showing your ignorance about the Corvair
conversion. I'm flying one.
If it is as you say, "not clear to you", why don't you accept the input of
experts and those who have been flying for years?
On second thought, don't answer that. Some people like one engine better
than another. In the future, could you please leave the Corvair discussion
to us who are interested in building and flying Corvair engines?
Phil Maxson
601XL/Corvair
Northwest New Jersey
75 hours
>From: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net (p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net)>
>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com (zenith-list(at)matronics.com)
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com (zenith-list(at)matronics.com)
>Subject: RE: Re: Dynon on Corvair engine
>Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 11:32:15 -0700
>
>It is not clear to me whether Mr. Wynne's dual coil ignition system
|
--
Christopher W. E. Smith
fly1m1
http://ch-601xl.com |
|
--
Christopher W. E. Smith
fly1m1
http://ch-601xl.com |
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ch601xl(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:46 pm Post subject: Dynon on Corvair engine |
|
|
I really didn't mean to lump all corvair guys into one for I might be one soon. I'm sure Phil is a nice guy & I hope he will help me on deciding on what to do about my engine choices. I know there are many smart people on this list, & that can only be a help to me in the years to come. I will ask lots of questions, & none of them will be to put down anyone. Thank you for the response & thank all of you who have written me off list. Your words on the list are nice to hear. & oh.....crotch rockets all the way!
On 7/6/06, Rick Lindstrom <tigerrick(at)mindspring.com (tigerrick(at)mindspring.com)> wrote: | Quote: | Upon your suggestion, Chris, I went back and read Phil's post again.
Yep, he took offense at a prior post. And, he responded to what he perceived as an attack on the wisdom of flying behind a Corvair.
I know Phil. He's not a bad guy. And he'll even pick up a lunch tab occasionally. But he IS from New Jersey. So you have to cut him a bit a slack.
You are in the right place to ask questions and get valid responses. But lumping all Corvair guys together as to their engine motivations and attitudes does tend to chafe a bit, and really doesn't help move the ball down the field for anyone.
Well, I'm off to my local biker bar to ask the other fine patrons why their Harleys suck so badly when compared to the latest in crotch rockets from Japan and the European Union...
Again -
Rick
Christopher Smith wrote:
"this corvair stuff is just dumb" meant the Back and forth about it...Not that the corvair in dumb..."Corvair people come off as rude...That is what is hurting the engine the most" Is true. Read phil's post. If I wanted to knock the corvair, I would do so on my website. But I don't, in fact I have a link to the corvair website. If I felt the engine was bad I would not link to it. I see now that the corvair folks are not willing to help me understand the engine I have an interest in. When that happens, I look elsewhere. I will from now on post questions to my website about the corvair to keep the list clear. Anyone wanting to help me with corvair can post a comment on the site. Sorry for getting this started, I thought that I could get help here.
On 7/6/06, Rick Lindstrom <tigerrick(at)mindspring.com (tigerrick(at)mindspring.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Hi, Chris, et al:
Sure, the Corvair engine has its share of downsides. So does every other aero engine flying, including certificated ones. And that's the beauty of the experimental category - we get to experiment, just as the name implies, with various airframe and powerplant solutions.
So blanket statements like "...this corvair stuff is just dumb", "...most who choose it is for the cost savings", and "Corvair people come off as rude...That is what is hurting the engine the most" are sure to raise the ire of those of us who have done the research, looked at the options, heard the word from on high, and made the decision to build up one of these beautiful little powerplants from a formerly automotive Corvair.
In my case, I first chose the engine (cost was NOT a factor), and then went out looking for the right airframe to stick on the back of it. I'm more than convinced of its reliability and its suitably to haul my ample butt around, having read the conversion manual, talked to other Corvair flyers about their experiences, and spent considerable time with the man who has invested a considerable amount of his life bringing the engine to the aviation market.
In this little corner of aviation, blanket statements get shot down with alarming regularity given the variables inherent in each individual installation. And those statements do little to further the legitimate educational dialogue, but tend to just polarize folks into "pro" and "anti" camps. (Besides, it's just not friendly to imply that someone's an idiot after making an informed choice, when your own research is a bit lacking.)
And, I've had a forced landing due to an exhaust valve breaking up in a Lycoming O-360A4K. I do know of a couple of Corvair engines that failed in flight, but I also know that putting excessive loads on any certified or non-certified crankshaft will eventually cause a failure. Look at the rash of recent ADs concerning crankshaft retirement from Lycoming!
So, forgive us if we defend our engine choice with passion. To do otherwise would indicate that we're really not capable of independent thought, and are content to only fly behind brand C or brand L engines for the remainder of our dull, uninspired, sheep-like lives.
Rick Lindstrom
Corvair / 601XL
Christopher Smith wrote:
I know I am new to the list but this corvair stuff is just dumb. It seems no one can say the corvair has it's downsides. It has lots of downsides, that's because it's a car engine. But the reason most who choose it is for the cost savings. The engine does not have the data to prove it's reliability. Too few are flying. But I will wager that if you look at the engine failures per capita against a certified engines, it fails more often. One thing is clear.....Corvair people come off as rude when defending the choice. That is what is hurting the engine the most.
On 7/6/06, Phil Maxson < pmaxpmax(at)hotmail.com (pmaxpmax(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" <pmaxpmax(at)hotmail.com (pmaxpmax(at)hotmail.com)>
Paul,
No offense intended, but you are showing your ignorance about the Corvair
conversion. I'm flying one.
If it is as you say, "not clear to you", why don't you accept the input of
experts and those who have been flying for years?
On second thought, don't answer that. Some people like one engine better
than another. In the future, could you please leave the Corvair discussion
to us who are interested in building and flying Corvair engines?
Phil Maxson
601XL/Corvair
Northwest New Jersey
75 hours
>From: Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net (p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net)>
>Reply-To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com (zenith-list(at)matronics.com)
>To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com (zenith-list(at)matronics.com)
>Subject: RE: Re: Dynon on Corvair engine
>Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 11:32:15 -0700
>
>It is not clear to me whether Mr. Wynne's dual coil ignition system
|
--
Christopher W. E. Smith
fly1m1
http://ch-601xl.com
|
--
Christopher W. E. Smith
fly1m1
http://ch-601xl.com
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John.Hines(at)craftontull
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:48 pm Post subject: Dynon on Corvair engine |
|
|
Chris,
The duplicate systems on the WW ignition system are the points, coils, capacitors and resistors. According to WW these are the systems that are affected by heat, "the primary killer of ignition systems." The non-redundant systems are the plugs, wires, and cap. Another difference between the WW system and mag systems is that you only run one at a time. If one system malfunctions you simply flip a switch to engage the second system. This was a big topic of discussion at Corvair day at the Mexico factory. Since the conversion manual is WW's lively hood, I probably should copy the entire details of the ignition system onto a web forum. I really encourage you to get the conversion manual. I was surprised that the first chapter is mainly his philosophy on risk management. It is a great read whether you build a Corvair or not.
Contact me off the list if you would like to continue this discussion.
Thanks,
John
www.johnsplane.com
________________________________
Smith
Sent: Thu 7/6/2006 6:13 PM
Thank you. I have read alot on the corvair website by WW. I will have to check out CorvAircraft's website for it is new to me. I was just asking about info I could not find on the corvair site. But trust me, I have learned my lesson, & will save Corvair questions for my own site. Thank you again for your help.
On 7/6/06, Robin Bellach <601zv(at)ritternet.com> wrote:
If you don't find enough information at FlyCorvair.Com, check out the CorvairCraft list:
search the CorvAircraft archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/corvairsrch/index.jsp <https://webvpn.craftontull.com/http/0/www.maddyhome.com/corvairsrch/index.jsp>
Other CorvAircraft list info is at http://www.krnet.org/corvaircraft_inst.html <https://webvpn.craftontull.com/http/0/www.krnet.org/corvaircraft_inst.html>
---
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John.Hines(at)craftontull
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:57 pm Post subject: Dynon on Corvair engine |
|
|
Oops. I meant to say "should not".
John R. HinesIT ManagerJohn.Hines(at)craftontull.com Office: 479-878-2449 Mobile: 479-366-4783 Fax: 479-631-6224 www.craftontull.com901 N. 47th Street, Suite 200 ·Rogers, AR 72756 Crafton, Tull & Associates, Inc. exists to anticipate and understand the needs of our clients and provide them with successful solutions.
--
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 4:36 pm Post subject: Dynon on Corvair engine |
|
|
Love the pro and con on all these emotionally charged debates, but
remember that you're eating into the technical volumes of our archives
and I'd not like to see them ruined by having to read all this over and
over again. Perhaps you all could be convinced to add
DO NOT ARCHIVE TO THE POSTS THAT ARE NOT SO INFORMATIVE.
Very much appreciated,
thanks guys,
Larry McFarland
do not archive
LHusky(at)aol.com wrote:
| Quote: | WOW! I am planning on using a Corvair engine, but at no time have I
came off rude when talking to anyone in this group about the engine.
Your statement is what is RUDE! If you don't have anything nice to
say, go join the LYCOMING PEOPLE group and be rude there. No, I am
not defending my choice of engine. I could care less what you think
of my choice. That is why it is my choice. I am defending the fact
that not ALL Corvair people are RUDE!
|
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ch601xl(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 5:16 pm Post subject: Dynon on Corvair engine |
|
|
Wait wait wait!
do not archive
On 7/6/06, Christopher Smith <ch601xl(at)gmail.com (ch601xl(at)gmail.com)> wrote: | Quote: | Will do Larry...Sorry
On 7/6/06, LarryMcFarland < larry(at)macsmachine.com (larry(at)macsmachine.com)> wrote: | Quote: | --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com (larry(at)macsmachine.com)>
Love the pro and con on all these emotionally charged debates, but
remember that you're eating into the technical volumes of our archives
and I'd not like to see them ruined by having to read all this over and
over again. Perhaps you all could be convinced to add
DO NOT ARCHIVE TO THE POSTS THAT ARE NOT SO INFORMATIVE.
Very much appreciated,
thanks guys,
Larry McFarland
do not archive
LHusky(at)aol.com (LHusky(at)aol.com) wrote:
| Quote: | WOW! I am planning on using a Corvair engine, but at no time have I
came off rude when talking to anyone in this group about the engine.
Your statement is what is RUDE! If you don't have anything nice to
say, go join the LYCOMING PEOPLE group and be rude there. No, I am
not defending my choice of engine. I could care less what you think
|
|
--
Christopher W. E. Smith
fly1m1
http://ch-601xl.com
|
--
Christopher W. E. Smith
fly1m1
http://ch-601xl.com
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ch601xl(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 5:16 pm Post subject: Dynon on Corvair engine |
|
|
Will do Larry...Sorry
On 7/6/06, LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com (larry(at)macsmachine.com)> wrote: | Quote: | --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com (larry(at)macsmachine.com)>
Love the pro and con on all these emotionally charged debates, but
remember that you're eating into the technical volumes of our archives
and I'd not like to see them ruined by having to read all this over and
over again. Perhaps you all could be convinced to add
DO NOT ARCHIVE TO THE POSTS THAT ARE NOT SO INFORMATIVE.
Very much appreciated,
thanks guys,
Larry McFarland
do not archive
LHusky(at)aol.com (LHusky(at)aol.com) wrote:
| Quote: | WOW! I am planning on using a Corvair engine, but at no time have I
came off rude when talking to anyone in this group about the engine.
Your statement is what is RUDE! If you don't have anything nice to
say, go join the LYCOMING PEOPLE group and be rude there. No, I am
not defending my choice of engine. I could care less what you think
|
|
--
Christopher W. E. Smith
fly1m1
http://ch-601xl.com
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:36 pm Post subject: Dynon on Corvair engine |
|
|
| Quote: | Well, I'm off to my local biker bar to ask the other fine patrons
why their Harleys suck so badly when compared to the latest in
crotch rockets from Japan and the European Union...
|
Well done, Rick. That one got even me into a deep belly laugh.
For anyone who is interested, let me actually make a clear statement
of where I stand on the engine questions:
1. I am building a 601XL and have not yet made a final decision on
which engine to install. I am leaning heavily toward the Jabiru
3300, but until I have it in hand that decision could change. My
goal is to get the best possible performance from my plane and engine
without much concern for reliability or cost.
2. I don't have anything against William Wynne or Corvair
engines. I am personally concerned about the discussions that have
taken place over this engine choice. The reason I am concerned is I
get the impression that the most vocal Corvair advocates do so
without any support of a technical nature for their positions. They
seem to make it a completely personal issue and not a technical
one. This makes me wonder if the picture they have of the Corvair
engine is accurate. Since I have yet to have a single technical
response to my comments (except for the citing of a "Dual points and
coil" system) and have received perhaps two dozen personal attacks
without any technical backup, I remain worried that fellow builders
are going down the garden path with their eyes firmly shut. For any
builder who chooses a Corvair or other auto conversion engine knowing
they are trading apparent cost for reliability and performance losses
I am very happy. For those who think they are getting improved
reliability or performance by using an auto engine in an airplane I
am concerned.
3. While I am not an expert in auto ignition systems, I am somewhat
expert in design of fault tolerant systems. I did that for a living
for a number of years when I was designing computers that run
communications systems. I believe my discussion of the possible
reduction in reliability in the non-isolated ignition system
additions was reasonably competent. While I would like to thank
Frank for his comments regarding addition of diodes with the hope of
causing isolation I remain unconvinced that these low volume custom
systems are really fault tolerant. If it is just me, that is
fine. I agree completely with the listers who pointed out that
engine failures occur with all engine choices and the really
important issue is for the pilots to keep their skills at landing
newly minted gliders up to the requirements.
4. As to the question about why the Corvair gets so much attention
on this list while the other auto conversions get nary a peep, I
think it is the way the Corvair advocates make every comment a
personal insult that leads to so much hot air. If only the technical
issues were discussed as such I think we would all be happier.
Best regards to all,
Paul
XL fuselage
do not archive
--
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kevin Bonds
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 171
Location: Nashville, Tn
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kevin Bonds
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 171
Location: Nashville, Tn
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:12 pm Post subject: Dynon on Corvair engine |
|
|
Paul
I suspect that some are like me. We are in the middle of building some other
part of our plane--and our mental efforts are taken up by it. Not that we
are necessarily unable to discuss technically, but that we would need to go
back and reference various materials, and such, to give qualified
information that is not based on spotty memory. I have read and re-read my
plans and manuals so many times but still wouldn't think of trying to do
anything strictly from memory. I haven't even looked at my engine this year.
I have rebuilt a Lyc 0-320 in class; taken, Applied Calculus, Philosophy,
Sociology, and Plane Trigonometry, and built half my fuse since the last
time I even opened WW's manual. Heck After reading about a million posts I'm
not even sure what your original post was. Maybe it has something to do with
the fact that it is 2:00am as well. I probably should make a rule to not
type after 1:00 for fear that it is all gobbledigoop.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville TN
<html><image
src="http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds/images/Empennage/Elevator.jpg
width="120"></html>
601XL Corvair powered; Plans building.
Empennage done; working on wings and engine.
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds
do not archive DO NOT ARCHIVE
| | - The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
|
_________________
KevinBonds
Nashville, TN
Plans-building Zenith CH601XL w/Corvair Power
http://home.comcast.net/~kevinbonds |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
