Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - torque tube support attach to wing root rib

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

torque tube support attach to wing root rib
Goto page 1, 2 Next

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV10-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

t_agold(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:02 am Post subject: torque tube support attach to wing root rib

Group,



Has anyone run into the problem of the rear aileron torque tube support brackets interfering with the bead in the forward most lightening hole of the wing root ribs? 



Thanks

   

  Todd

 #362 



  		Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

ericmpmail-rv10(at)yahoo.
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 8:39 am Post subject: torque tube support attach to wing root rib

Todd,



Yes, You have to cut it back to open up the space.

Even the hinge gets cut back a little. Factory plane

has this mod, so does every other flying plane I have

seen. Van's changed the opening from rectangle to

teardrop at some build #. It would be nice if they

sent out a revision notice as it would be much easier

to fix when you have the rear spar on the bench as

opposed to riveted to the wing.



If you search back I had more detail about this about

6-9 months ago. Bottom line is if you have a

retangular opening in your wing rear spar for your

aileron push tube you will need to widen the opening

for clearance.



Another area where I have noticed clearance issues is

between the small landing gear front tube and one of

the seat supports. If you don't increase dia of the

existing opening then the tube wll rub against the

support and wear thru the powdercoat into the metal.  



Overall, I think we are spoiled that everything fits

so well... 



Eric

#40150



--- todd agold <t_agold(at)yahoo.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Group,

 

 Has anyone run into the problem of the rear aileron

 torque tube support brackets interfering with the

 bead in the forward most lightening hole of the wing

 root ribs? 

 

 Thanks

    

   Todd

  #362 

 

  		

 ---------------------------------

 Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make

 PC-to-Phone calls.  Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:23 am Post subject: torque tube support attach to wing root rib

Eric,



 From the sounds of it, he's asking about the rounded bead

that surrounds a wing rib lightening hole....not the

pushrod exit hole....right Todd, or am I misreading?

If this is what you're asking about, I'm not familiar

with anyone having a problem so far.  If you're talking

about the exit hole for the pushrod in the rear spar

then Eric is right on for sure.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Eric Panning wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Todd,

 

 Yes, You have to cut it back to open up the space.

 Even the hinge gets cut back a little. Factory plane

 has this mod, so does every other flying plane I have

 seen. Van's changed the opening from rectangle to

 teardrop at some build #. It would be nice if they

 sent out a revision notice as it would be much easier

 to fix when you have the rear spar on the bench as

 opposed to riveted to the wing.

 

 If you search back I had more detail about this about

 6-9 months ago. Bottom line is if you have a

 retangular opening in your wing rear spar for your

 aileron push tube you will need to widen the opening

 for clearance.

 

 Another area where I have noticed clearance issues is

 between the small landing gear front tube and one of

 the seat supports. If you don't increase dia of the

 existing opening then the tube wll rub against the

 support and wear thru the powdercoat into the metal.  

 

 Overall, I think we are spoiled that everything fits

 so well... 

 

 Eric

 #40150

 

 --- todd agold <t_agold(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

 

> Group,

>

> Has anyone run into the problem of the rear aileron

> torque tube support brackets interfering with the

> bead in the forward most lightening hole of the wing

> root ribs? 

>

> Thanks

>    

>   Todd

>  #362 

>

>  		

> ---------------------------------

> Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make

> PC-to-Phone calls.  Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

t_agold(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:28 am Post subject: torque tube support attach to wing root rib

Eric,

   

  Thanks for the reply, but I'm referring to a different issue.  See picture...

   

  Todd

  #362

  <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />



Eric Panning <ericmpmail-rv10(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

  [quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: Eric Panning 



Todd,



Yes, You have to cut it back to open up the space.

Even the hinge gets cut back a little. Factory plane

has this mod, so does every other flying plane I have

seen. Van's changed the opening from rectangle to

teardrop at some build #. It would be nice if they

sent out a revision notice as it would be much easier

to fix when you have the rear spar on the  bench as

opposed to riveted to the wing.



If you search back I had more detail about this about

6-9 months ago. Bottom line is if you have a

retangular opening in your wing rear spar for your

aileron push tube you will need to widen the opening

for clearance.



Another area where I have noticed clearance issues is

between the small landing gear front tube and one of

the seat supports. If you don't increase dia of the

existing opening then the tube wll rub against the

support and wear thru the powdercoat into the metal. 



Overall, I think we are spoiled that everything fits

so well... 



Eric

#40150



--- todd agold wrote:



[quote] Group,

 

 Has anyone run into the problem of the rear aileron

 torque tube support brackets interfering with the

 bead in the forward most lightening hole of the wing

 root ribs? 

 

 Thanks

 

 		Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. [url=http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=36035/*http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/  ]Try it free.[/url]

rib_interference.JPG

Description:

Filesize:

57.9 KB

Viewed:

266 Time(s)

rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:50 am Post subject: torque tube support attach to wing root rib

I am not 100% sure, I will look tonight, but I think I had to shape that piece in order to get it to fit flat on the rib.  

Rene' Felker  

40322  

N423CF  

Finish Kit……..going slow L  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of todd agold

 Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 11:28 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: torque tube support attach to wing root rib  

Eric,  

Thanks for the reply, but I'm referring to a different issue.  See picture...  

Todd  

#362  

 Eric Panning <ericmpmail-rv10(at)yahoo.com> wrote:  

   	  Quote: 	

--> RV10-List message posted by: Eric Panning 

 Todd,

 Yes, You have to cut it back to open up the space.

 Even the hinge gets cut back a little. Factory plane

 has this mod, so does every other flying plane I have

 seen. Van's changed the opening from rectangle to

 teardrop at some build #. It would be nice if they

 sent out a revision notice as it would be much easier

 to fix when you have the rear spar on the bench as

 opposed to riveted to the wing.

 If you search back I had more detail about this about

 6-9 months ago. Bottom line is if you have a

 retangular opening in your wing rear spar for your

 aileron push tube you will need to widen the opening

 for clearance.

 Another area where I have noticed clearance issues is

 between the small landing gear front tube and one of

 the seat supports. If you don't increase dia of the

 existing opening then the tube wll rub against the

 support and wear thru the powdercoat into the metal. 

 Overall, I think we are spoiled that everything fits

 so well... 

 Eric

 #40150

 --- todd agold wrote:

 > Group,

 > 

 > Has anyone run into the problem of the rear aileron

 > torque tube support brackets interfering with the

 > bead in the forward most lightening hole of the wing

 > root ribs? 

 > 

 > Thanks

 > 

 >       

Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. [url=http://pa.yahoo.com/*http:/us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=36035/*http:/music.yahoo.com/unlimited/%20%0d%0a]Try it free.[/url]

ericmpmail-rv10(at)yahoo.
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:54 am Post subject: torque tube support attach to wing root rib

Sorry Todd - looked again and I think your question is

different topic than my response. Sorry for the

confusion! Eric



Do not archive



--- Eric Panning <ericmpmail-rv10(at)yahoo.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <ericmpmail-rv10(at)yahoo.com>

 

 Todd,

 

 Yes, You have to cut it back to open up the space.

 Even the hinge gets cut back a little. Factory plane

 has this mod, so does every other flying plane I

 have

 seen. Van's changed the opening from rectangle to

 teardrop at some build #. It would be nice if they

 sent out a revision notice as it would be much

 easier

 to fix when you have the rear spar on the bench as

 opposed to riveted to the wing.

 

 If you search back I had more detail about this

 about

 6-9 months ago. Bottom line is if you have a

 retangular opening in your wing rear spar for your

 aileron push tube you will need to widen the opening

 for clearance.

 

 Another area where I have noticed clearance issues

 is

 between the small landing gear front tube and one of

 the seat supports. If you don't increase dia of the

 existing opening then the tube wll rub against the

 support and wear thru the powdercoat into the metal.

  

 

 Overall, I think we are spoiled that everything fits

 so well... 

 

 Eric

 #40150

 

 --- todd agold <t_agold(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

 

 > Group,

 > 

 > Has anyone run into the problem of the rear

 aileron

 > torque tube support brackets interfering with the

 > bead in the forward most lightening hole of the

 wing

 > root ribs? 

 > 

 > Thanks

 >    

 >   Todd

 >  #362 

 > 

 >  		

 > ---------------------------------

 > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make

 > PC-to-Phone calls.  Great rates starting at

 1¢/min.

 

 

 

 



 browse

 Subscriptions page,

 FAQ,

 Admin.

rv10(at)tpg.com.au
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:33 am Post subject: torque tube support attach to wing root rib

Hey Todd,



Just did this a couple of days ago and also sat scratching my head for some time after striking the 

same problem.  I also spent some time searching through the lists thinking "Surely someone else 

has had this problem!!"  In the end I ground the bottom of the support brackets back to provide 

clearance at which point they sat in there semi-nicely (still had headaches getting the holes 

common to the flanges even close to lining up).



Have fun,

Scott Lewis

RV-10 40172

Adelaide, South Australia



Quoting todd agold <t_agold(at)yahoo.com>:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Group,

 

 Has anyone run into the problem of the rear aileron torque tube

 support brackets interfering with the bead in the forward most

 lightening hole of the wing root ribs? 

 

 Thanks

    

   Todd

  #362

jesse(at)itecusa.org
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:01 am Post subject: torque tube support attach to wing root rib

I had to do that as well.  Just grind down, file down, whatever-down the angle until it sits flat.  

Do not archive.  

Jesse Saint  

I-TEC, Inc.  

jesse(at)itecusa.org (jesse(at)itecusa.org)  

www.itecusa.org  

W: 352-465-4545  

C: 352-427-0285  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of todd agold

 Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 1:28 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: torque tube support attach to wing root rib  

Eric,  

Thanks for the reply, but I'm referring to a different issue.  See picture...  

Todd  

#362  

 Eric Panning <ericmpmail-rv10(at)yahoo.com> wrote:  

   	  Quote: 	

--> RV10-List message posted by: Eric Panning 

 Todd,

 Yes, You have to cut it back to open up the space.

 Even the hinge gets cut back a little. Factory plane

 has this mod, so does every other flying plane I have

 seen. Van's changed the opening from rectangle to

 teardrop at some build #. It would be nice if they

 sent out a revision notice as it would be much easier

 to fix when you have the rear spar on the bench as

 opposed to riveted to the wing.

 If you search back I had more detail about this about

 6-9 months ago. Bottom line is if you have a

 retangular opening in your wing rear spar for your

 aileron push tube you will need to widen the opening

 for clearance.

 Another area where I have noticed clearance issues is

 between the small landing gear front tube and one of

 the seat supports. If you don't increase dia of the

 existing opening then the tube wll rub against the

 support and wear thru the powdercoat into the metal. 

 Overall, I think we are spoiled that everything fits

 so well... 

 Eric

 #40150

 --- todd agold wrote:

 > Group,

 > 

 > Has anyone run into the problem of the rear aileron

 > torque tube support brackets interfering with the

 > bead in the forward most lightening hole of the wing

 > root ribs? 

 > 

 > Thanks

 > 

 >       

Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. [url=http://pa.yahoo.com/*http:/us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=36035/*http:/music.yahoo.com/unlimited/%20%0d%0a]Try it free.[/url]   

--

 No virus found in this incoming message.

 7/7/2006

Rick S.

Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 347
Location: Las Vegas

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:13 am Post subject: torque tube support attach to wing root rib

The old Yahoo list had a bunch of info about this but alas it tis gone so for us old Yahoo guys who remember, this is what I recall:



Some had clearance issues, some didn't, and if you do, it's a VERY LITTLE amount of interference.  My right bracket just interfered (only right) with the bead so I buffed off the slightest amount of material off the bottom of the bracket and it worked fine.



Later someone posted that Van's said to flatten the bead slightly to allow the bracket to sit properly. I know this sounds dumb but make sure the angle is aft of the bracket and not forward which would make it sit right on top of the bead. Carefully line up the spacer and bracket to make sure your not to far forward when you match drill. If the bracket is sitting really high up on the bead, something is wrong somewhere. You should only have to round the edge of the bracket a small amount for it to come together correctly.



Rick S.

40185

_________________
Rick S.
RV-10
40185

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:44 am Post subject: torque tube support attach to wing root rib

The beads act as stiffeners.  Adding that attach point stiffens it way

more than a bead.  I do recall the comments in the past about flattening

it which is a better idea than removing any material.  I believe that is

what I did also. 



Michael Sausen

RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage

Do Not Archive



--

jim(at)CombsFive.Com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:13 pm Post subject: torque tube support attach to wing root rib

That problem is common.  My kit #40192 had it too.



Van support will tell you to flatten out the rib.  



Jim C



============================================================



Eric,

   

  Thanks for the reply, but I'm referring to a different issue.  See picture...

   

  Todd

  #362

  



Eric Panning <ericmpmail-rv10(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

  



Todd,



Yes, You have to cut it back to open up the space.

Even the hinge gets cut back a little. Factory plane

has this mod, so does every other flying plane I have

seen. Van's changed the opening from rectangle to

teardrop at some build #. It would be nice if they

sent out a revision notice as it would be much easier

to fix when you have the rear spar on the bench as

opposed to riveted to the wing.



If you search back I had more detail about this about

6-9 months ago. Bottom line is if you have a

retangular opening in your wing rear spar for your

aileron push tube you will need to widen the opening

for clearance.



Another area where I have noticed clearance issues is

between the small landing gear front tube and one of

the seat supports. If you don't increase dia of the

existing opening then the tube wll rub against the

support and wear thru the powdercoat into the metal. 



Overall, I think we are spoiled that everything fits

so well... 



Eric

#40150



--- todd agold wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Group,

 

 Has anyone run into the problem of the rear aileron

 torque tube support brackets interfering with the

 bead in the forward most lightening hole of the wing

 root ribs? 

 

 Thanks

 

 Todd

 #362 

 

 

 ---------------------------------

 Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make

 PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.


	






 		

---------------------------------

Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. 

============================================================

rib_interference.JPG

Description:

Filesize:

57.9 KB

Viewed:

279 Time(s)

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:57 am Post subject: torque tube support attach to wing root rib

I remembered from seeing Rob's old repost a bit more on this

spot.  I think it touches, but once you have the ailerons

hooked up, you can't get that much travel out of it

anymore, so then it no longer rubs.  So for those who are

looking at this and worrying about it, you may want to wait

until you attach your ailerons.  I don't think I ended up having

to bend mine in, but I also don't think they rub.  If someone

else had a different experience, please post to disagree, but

if someone had the same experience, it would be nice to hear

that this is valid...just in case.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

todd agold wrote:

[quote] Thanks all for the replies.  It made the most sense to me to flatten the 

 bead in the interfering area.  I tried it last night and all turned out 

 well.

  

 Thanks again.

 Todd

 #362

 

 */"Robert G. Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net>/* wrote:

 

     

 

     Todd,

 

     I think this is the message from the old Yahoo list that Rick S. was

     referring to earlier.

 

     Um, personal archive for a lot of this stuff, but this one should be

     in the

     matronics archives as well.

 

     Rob Wright

     #392

     QB Wings

 

     --

mritter509(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:53 am Post subject: torque tube support attach to wing root rib

My experience is the same as Tim's - once on the wing my ailerons do not rub. 

Mark (40043)

 

 [quote]   

From:  Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>

Reply-To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject:  Re: torque tube support attach to wing root rib

Date:  Tue, 11 Jul 2006 08:55:53 -0500

[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>



I remembered from seeing Rob's old repost a bit more on this

spot.  I think it touches, but once you have the ailerons

hooked up, you can't get that much travel out of it

anymore, so then it no longer rubs.  So for those who are

looking at this and worrying about it, you may want to wait

until you attach your ailerons.  I don't think I ended up having

to bend mine in, but I also don't think they rub.  If  someone

else had a different experience, please post to disagree, but

if someone had the same experience, it would be nice to hear

that this is valid...just in case.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

todd agold wrote:

>Thanks all for the replies.  It made the most sense to me to 

>flatten the bead in the interfering area.  I tried it last night 

>and all turned out well.

>  Thanks again.

>Todd

>#362

>

>*/"Robert G. Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net>/* wrote:

>

>     --> RV10-List message posted by: "Robert G. Wright"

>

>     Todd,

>

>     I think this is the message from  the old Yahoo list that Rick 

>S. was

>     referring to earlier.

>

>     Um, personal archive for a lot of this stuff, but this one 

>should be

>     in the

>     matronics archives as well.

>

>     Rob Wright

>     #392

>     QB Wings

>

>     --

james.k.hovis(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:47 am Post subject: torque tube support attach to wing root rib

Hello all, 

   First off, I've been lurking on this list for a few weeks to get a feel of what's going on with building an RV-10 since I've decided this airplane will fit my requirements. I'm still a few months away from actually ordering a kit ( other issues need to be worked on, especially final approval from the household finance minister!). And while lurking I've thought about giving some opinion about a few of these issues and this discussion seems a pretty good place to start. Let me give you my bonafides first. I work for a rather large midwestern producer of military aircraft (guess who!) as a structural design engineer specializing in production support for 17 years. Dealing with problems associated with aircraft assembly is my profession. I've held a private pilot's license since 1989 and owned a Grumman AA-1A for nearly nine years. However, I've only been flying very intermittently since selling my airplane a few years ago. This is why the RV-10 looks really attractive to me, good design, easy (relative) building and four seats for the whole family (wife and two girls now 11 and 6) for those trips we could make by air.  

 Now about this problem: It is my opinion that if at all possible do not flatten or trim the stiffening bead around the cutout in the inboard closure rib. Looking at the figure sent, it appears that the issue is that the outside of the bent section of the W-1029C angle rides on the initial bend radius of the W-1010R rib when located to the matched holes in the rib. First off, the stiffening bead is there so that the rib will not buckle under the maximum shear load seen by the rib. It may seem counter-intuitive, but a rib such as this can actually take a higher shear load with the cutouts and stiffening beads than if the rib had a solid web. If it is absolutely necessary to flatten or trim the bead off for clearance, then it is best to add a stiffening doubler to the opposite side of the rib to help keep the rib from buckling locally.  

 However, looking at the picture, I'm not sure there is a need to "adjust" this bead. I have to ask some questions (and since I don't have an airplane to look at either) about the rib. Does the bead bend convex inboard or outboard of the web? And since the picture doesn't give me orientation, is the torque tube support assy installed on the inboard or outboard side. Also, are the left hand and right hand closure ribs identical or are they mirror images of each other? It seems to me that if the beads convex outboard and the bracket assy is installed to the inboard surface, there should be no interference. The only issue you'd have is an "overhang" which structurally isn't an issue as long as the heads and tails of the MS20470 rivets attaching the bracket doesn't ride in the bead radius. And if the two ribs are mirror images, your problem could be a mis-identified or mis-formed rib. Swapping left for right might solve the problem, but hole alignments to skins and spars may be off.  

 While the typical aircraft design is rather robust and can stand some deviation from design ideal, too much alteration without checking with the factory or other professional could be a bad thing. Fully flattening rib stiffening beads qualifies as a major alteration to me.  

 James K. Hovis

 On 7/11/06, Mark Ritter <mritter509(at)msn.com (mritter509(at)msn.com)> wrote: [quote] --> RV10-List message posted by: "Mark Ritter"    

My experience is the same as Tim's - once on the wing my ailerons do not rub. 

Mark (40043)

  	  Quote: 	

From:  Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com (Tim(at)MyRV10.com)>

Reply-To:   rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject:  Re: torque tube support attach to wing root rib 

Date:  Tue, 11 Jul 2006 08:55:53 -0500 	

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com  (Tim(at)MyRV10.com)>

I remembered from seeing Rob's old repost a bit more on this

spot.  I think it touches, but once you have the ailerons

hooked up, you can't get that much travel out of it

anymore, so then it no longer rubs.  So for those who are 

looking at this and worrying about it, you may want to wait

until you attach your ailerons.  I don't think I ended up having

to bend mine in, but I also don't think they rub.  If someone

else had a different experience, please post to disagree, but 

if someone had the same experience, it would be nice to hear

that this is valid...just in case.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

todd agold wrote: 

>Thanks all for the replies.  It made the most sense to me to 

>flatten the bead in the interfering area.  I tried it last night 

>and all turned out well.

>  Thanks again.

>Todd 

>#362

>

>*/"Robert G. Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net (armywrights(at)adelphia.net)>/* wrote: 

>

>     --> RV10-List message posted by: "Robert G. Wright"

>

>     Todd,

>

>     I think this is the message from the old Yahoo list that Rick 

 >>S. was

[quote]>     referring to earlier.

>

>     Um, personal archive for a lot of this stuff, but this one 

>should be

>     in the

>     matronics archives as well. 

>

>     Rob Wright

>     #392

>     QB Wings

>

>     --

t_agold(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:26 am Post subject: torque tube support attach to wing root rib

James,

  I sent Van's an email and got back a reply to flatten the bead.  I understand you concerns, but hopefully the following answers to your questions will clarify the issue. 

  Does the bead bend convex inboard or outboard of the web? - Convex.  The bead is on the same side as the flange.

  is the torque tube support assy installed on the inboard or outboard side. Inboard.  The flange also faces inboard.

  Also, are the left hand and right hand closure ribs identical or are they mirror images of each other? -Mirror images

  , your problem could be a mis-identified or mis-formed rib. -The edge of the lightening hole doesn't exactly line up with the line of holes for the stiffening angle.

   Swapping left for right might solve the problem, Can't do that.  Nothing will line up and I don't think it could even be assembled that way.

  Once the torque tube support is installed, the rib is MUCH stiffer that with the bead.  I only flattened the portion of the bead that interfered. 

  Todd #362  

James K Hovis <james.k.hovis(at)gmail.com> wrote:

  [quote]  Hello all, 

    First off, I've been lurking on this list for a few weeks to get a feel of what's going on with building an RV-10 since I've decided this airplane will fit my requirements. I'm still a few months away from actually ordering a kit ( other issues need to be worked on, especially final approval from the  household finance minister!). And while lurking I've thought about giving some opinion about a few of these issues and this discussion seems a pretty good place to start. Let me give you my bonafides first. I work for a rather large midwestern producer of military aircraft (guess who!) as a structural design engineer specializing in production support for 17 years. Dealing with problems associated with aircraft assembly is my profession. I've held a private pilot's license since 1989 and owned a Grumman AA-1A for nearly nine years. However, I've only been flying very intermittently since selling my airplane a few years ago. This is why the RV-10 looks really attractive to me, good design, easy (relative) building and four seats for the whole family (wife and two girls now 11 and 6) for those trips we could make by air. 

  Now about this problem: It is my opinion that if at all possible do not flatten or trim the stiffening bead around the  cutout in the inboard closure rib. Looking at the figure sent, it appears that the issue is that the outside of the bent section of the W-1029C angle rides on the initial bend radius of the W-1010R rib when located to the matched holes in the rib. First off, the stiffening bead is there so that the rib will not buckle under the maximum shear load seen by the rib. It may seem counter-intuitive, but a rib such as this can actually take a higher shear load with the cutouts and stiffening beads than if the rib had a solid web. If it is absolutely necessary to flatten or trim the bead off for clearance, then it is best to add a stiffening doubler to the opposite side of the rib to help keep the rib from buckling locally.  

  However, looking at the picture, I'm not sure there is a need to "adjust" this bead. I have to ask some questions (and since I don't have an airplane to look at either) about the rib. Does the bead bend convex  inboard or outboard of the web? And since the picture doesn't give me orientation, is the torque tube support assy installed on the inboard or outboard side. Also, are the left hand and right hand closure ribs identical or are they mirror images of each other? It seems to me that if the beads convex outboard and the bracket assy is installed to the inboard surface, there should be no interference. The only issue you'd have is an "overhang" which structurally isn't an issue as long as the heads and tails of the MS20470 rivets attaching the bracket doesn't ride in the bead radius. And if the two ribs are mirror images, your problem could be a mis-identified or mis-formed rib. Swapping left for right might solve the problem, but hole alignments to skins and spars may be off.  

  While the typical aircraft design is rather robust and can stand some deviation from design ideal, too much alteration without checking  with the factory or other professional could be a bad thing. Fully flattening rib stiffening beads qualifies as a major alteration to me.  

  James K. Hovis

  On 7/11/06, Mark Ritter <mritter509(at)msn.com (mritter509(at)msn.com)> wrote:   [quote]  --> RV10-List message posted by: "Mark Ritter"       My experience is the same as Tim's - once on the wing my ailerons do not rub.

  Mark (40043)

   	  Quote: 	

From:  Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com (Tim(at)MyRV10.com)>

Reply-To:   rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject:  Re: torque tube support attach to wing root rib 

Date:  Tue, 11 Jul 2006 08:55:53 -0500 	

[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com  (Tim(at)MyRV10.com)>

I remembered from seeing Rob's old repost a bit more on  this

spot.  I think it touches, but once you have the ailerons

hooked up, you can't get that much travel out of it

anymore, so then it no longer rubs.  So for those who are 

looking at this and worrying about it, you may want to wait

until you attach your ailerons.  I don't think I ended up having

to bend mine in, but I also don't think they rub.  If someone

else had a different experience, please post to disagree, but 

if someone had the same experience, it would be nice to hear

that this is valid...just in case.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

todd agold wrote: 

>Thanks all for the replies.  It made the most sense to me to 

>flatten the bead in the interfering area.  I tried it last night 

>and all turned out well.

>  Thanks  again.

>Todd 

>#362

>

>*/"Robert G. Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net (armywrights(at)adelphia.net)>/* wrote: 

>

>     --> RV10-List message posted by: "Robert G. Wright"

>

>     Todd,

>

>     I think this is the message from the old Yahoo list that Rick 

>S. was

>     referring to earlier.

>

>     Um, personal archive for a lot of this stuff, but this one 

>should be

>     in the

>     matronics archives as well. 

>

>     Rob Wright

>     #392

>     QB  Wings

>

>     --

jeff(at)westcottpress.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:56 am Post subject: torque tube support attach to wing root rib

Welcome James!

I think the list quality (already quite excellent) just went up another notch.

Jeff Carpenter

40304

N410CF

"Why does the right side always come out better than the left?"

Do Not Archive.

On Jul 11, 2006, at 8:45 AM, James K Hovis wrote:

[quote]Hello all, 

   First off, I've been lurking on this list for a few weeks to get a feel of what's going on with building an RV-10 since I've decided this airplane will fit my requirements. I'm still a few months away from actually ordering a kit ( other issues need to be worked on, especially final approval from the household finance minister!). And while lurking I've thought about giving some opinion about a few of these issues and this discussion seems a pretty good place to start. Let me give you my bonafides first. I work for a rather large midwestern producer of military aircraft (guess who!) as a structural design engineer specializing in production support for 17 years. Dealing with problems associated with aircraft assembly is my profession. I've held a private pilot's license since 1989 and owned a Grumman AA-1A for nearly nine years. However, I've only been flying very intermittently since selling my airplane a few years ago. This is why the RV-10 looks really attractive to me, good design, easy (relative) building and four seats for the whole family (wife and two girls now 11 and 6) for those trips we could make by air. 

 Now about this problem: It is my opinion that if at all possible do not flatten or trim the stiffening bead around the cutout in the inboard closure rib. Looking at the figure sent, it appears that the issue is that the outside of the bent section of the W-1029C angle rides on the initial bend radius of the W-1010R rib when located to the matched holes in the rib. First off, the stiffening bead is there so that the rib will not buckle under the maximum shear load seen by the rib. It may seem counter-intuitive, but a rib such as this can actually take a higher shear load with the cutouts and stiffening beads than if the rib had a solid web. If it is absolutely necessary to flatten or trim the bead off for clearance, then it is best to add a stiffening doubler to the opposite side of the rib to help keep the rib from buckling locally.  

 However, looking at the picture, I'm not sure there is a need to "adjust" this bead. I have to ask some questions (and since I don't have an airplane to look at either) about the rib. Does the bead bend convex inboard or outboard of the web? And since the picture doesn't give me orientation, is the torque tube support assy installed on the inboard or outboard side. Also, are the left hand and right hand closure ribs identical or are they mirror images of each other? It seems to me that if the beads convex outboard and the bracket assy is installed to the inboard surface, there should be no interference. The only issue you'd have is an "overhang" which structurally isn't an issue as long as the heads and tails of the MS20470 rivets attaching the bracket doesn't ride in the bead radius. And if the two ribs are mirror images, your problem could be a mis-identified or mis-formed rib. Swapping left for right might solve the problem, but hole alignments to skins and spars may be off.  

 While the typical aircraft design is rather robust and can stand some deviation from design ideal, too much alteration without checking with the factory or other professional could be a bad thing. Fully flattening rib stiffening beads qualifies as a major alteration to me.  

 James K. Hovis

 On 7/11/06, Mark Ritter <mritter509(at)msn.com (mritter509(at)msn.com)> wrote: [quote] --> RV10-List message posted by: "Mark Ritter"  

My experience is the same as Tim's - once on the wing my ailerons do not rub.

Mark (40043)

  	  Quote: 	

From:  Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com (Tim(at)MyRV10.com)>

Reply-To:   rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject:  Re: torque tube support attach to wing root rib 

Date:  Tue, 11 Jul 2006 08:55:53 -0500 	

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com  (Tim(at)MyRV10.com)>

I remembered from seeing Rob's old repost a bit more on this

spot.  I think it touches, but once you have the ailerons

hooked up, you can't get that much travel out of it

anymore, so then it no longer rubs.  So for those who are 

looking at this and worrying about it, you may want to wait

until you attach your ailerons.  I don't think I ended up having

to bend mine in, but I also don't think they rub.  If someone

else had a different experience, please post to disagree, but 

if someone had the same experience, it would be nice to hear

that this is valid...just in case.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

todd agold wrote: 

>Thanks all for the replies.  It made the most sense to me to 

>flatten the bead in the interfering area.  I tried it last night 

>and all turned out well.

>  Thanks again.

>Todd 

>#362

>

>*/"Robert G. Wright" <armywrights(at)adelphia.net (armywrights(at)adelphia.net)>/* wrote: 

>

>     --> RV10-List message posted by: "Robert G. Wright"

>

>     Todd,

>

>     I think this is the message from the old Yahoo list that Rick 

 >>S. was

[quote]>     referring to earlier.

>

>     Um, personal archive for a lot of this stuff, but this one 

>should be

>     in the

>     matronics archives as well. 

>

>     Rob Wright

>     #392

>     QB Wings

>

>     --

james.k.hovis(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:58 am Post subject: torque tube support attach to wing root rib

Thanks for the info! If the guys at Van's say to flatten the bead, then flatten the bead. Seems that a simple solution for future kits is for Van's to change the production process and swap the direction they apply the bead. Yes, the angle itself will add stiffness to the rib after the bead is flattened. And if only a portion is flattened, then you still have some of the original intent to stiffen around the cutout being effective. However, the support bracket is adding a shear load into the web and all things being equal, the conservative engineer in me will tell you to add a doubler to the opposite side. But, the loadings seen by each discreet part may not happen at the same time. The maximum shear reacted by the rib from the wing skins may not be at Va, it is most likely a walking load from a person on the wing-walk area since this is a closure rib and the support bracket sees its maximum load in the unlikely event of a control jam. Since Van's looked at the problem I'd go with their recommendation.  

 JKH

 On 7/11/06, todd agold <t_agold(at)yahoo.com (t_agold(at)yahoo.com)> wrote: [quote]  James,

 I sent Van's an email and got back a reply to flatten the bead.  I understand you concerns, but hopefully the following answers to your questions will clarify the issue. 

 Does the bead bend convex inboard or outboard of the web? - Convex.  The bead is on the same side as the flange.

 is the torque tube support assy installed on the inboard or outboard side. Inboard.  The flange also faces inboard.

 Also, are the left hand and right hand closure ribs identical or are they mirror images of each other? -Mirror images

 , your problem could be a mis-identified or mis-formed rib. -The edge of the lightening hole doesn't exactly line up with the line of holes for the stiffening angle.

 Swapping left for right might solve the problem, Can't do that.  Nothing will line up and I don't think it could even be assembled that way.

 Once the torque tube support is installed, the rib is MUCH stiffer that with the bead.  I only flattened the portion of the bead that interfered. 

 Todd #362  

James K Hovis <james.k.hovis(at)gmail.com (james.k.hovis(at)gmail.com)> wrote: 

 [quote] Hello all, 

   First off, I've been lurking on this list for a few weeks to get a feel of what's going on with building an RV-10 since I've decided this airplane will fit my requirements. I'm still a few months away from actually ordering a kit ( other issues need to be worked on, especially final approval from the household finance minister!). And while lurking I've thought about giving some opinion about a few of these issues and this discussion seems a pretty good place to start. Let me give you my bonafides first. I work for a rather large midwestern producer of military aircraft (guess who!) as a structural design engineer specializing in production support for 17 years. Dealing with problems associated with aircraft assembly is my profession. I've held a private pilot's license since 1989 and owned a Grumman AA-1A for nearly nine years. However, I've only been flying very intermittently since selling my airplane a few years ago. This is why the RV-10 looks really attractive to me, good design, easy (relative) building and four seats for the whole family (wife and two girls now 11 and 6) for those trips we could make by air.  

 Now about this problem: It is my opinion that if at all possible do not flatten or trim the stiffening bead around the cutout in the inboard closure rib. Looking at the figure sent, it appears that the issue is that the outside of the bent section of the W-1029C angle rides on the initial bend radius of the W-1010R rib when located to the matched holes in the rib. First off, the stiffening bead is there so that the rib will not buckle under the maximum shear load seen by the rib. It may seem counter-intuitive, but a rib such as this can actually take a higher shear load with the cutouts and stiffening beads than if the rib had a solid web. If it is absolutely necessary to flatten or trim the bead off for clearance, then it is best to add a stiffening doubler to the opposite side of the rib to help keep the rib from buckling locally.   

 However, looking at the picture, I'm not sure there is a need to "adjust" this bead. I have to ask some questions (and since I don't have an airplane to look at either) about the rib. Does the bead bend convex inboard or outboard of the web? And since the picture doesn't give me orientation, is the torque tube support assy installed on the inboard or outboard side. Also, are the left hand and right hand closure ribs identical or are they mirror images of each other? It seems to me that if the beads convex outboard and the bracket assy is installed to the inboard surface, there should be no interference. The only issue you'd have is an "overhang" which structurally isn't an issue as long as the heads and tails of the MS20470 rivets attaching the bracket doesn't ride in the bead radius. And if the two ribs are mirror images, your problem could be a mis-identified or mis-formed rib. Swapping left for right might solve the problem, but hole alignments to skins and spars may be off.   

 While the typical aircraft design is rather robust and can stand some deviation from design ideal, too much alteration without checking with the factory or other professional could be a bad thing. Fully flattening rib stiffening beads qualifies as a major alteration to me.   

 James K. Hovis

 On 7/11/06, Mark Ritter <mritter509(at)msn.com (mritter509(at)msn.com) > wrote:  [quote] --> RV10-List message posted by: "Mark Ritter"    My experience is the same as Tim's - once on the wing my ailerons do not rub.

 Mark (40043)

  	  Quote: 	

From:  Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com (Tim(at)MyRV10.com)>

Reply-To:    rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject:  Re: torque tube support attach to wing root rib  

Date:  Tue, 11 Jul 2006 08:55:53 -0500 	

[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com  (Tim(at)MyRV10.com)>

I remembered from seeing Rob's old repost a bit more on this 

spot.  I think it touches, but once you have the ailerons

hooked up, you can't get that much travel out of it

anymore, so then it no longer rubs.  So for those who are 

looking at this and worrying about it, you may want to wait 

until you attach your ailerons.  I don't think I ended up having

to bend mine in, but I also don't think they rub.  If someone

else had a different experience, please post to disagree, but 

if someone had the same experience, it would be nice to hear 

that this is valid...just in case.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

todd agold wrote: 

>Thanks all for the replies.  It made the most sense to me to  

>flatten the bead in the interfering area.  I tried it last night 

>and all turned out well.

>  Thanks again.

>Todd 

>#362

>

>*/"Robert G. Wright" < armywrights(at)adelphia.net (armywrights(at)adelphia.net)>/* wrote: 

>

>     --> RV10-List message posted by: "Robert G. Wright" 

>

>     Todd,

>

>     I think this is the message from the old Yahoo list that Rick 

>S. was

>     referring to earlier.

>

>     Um, personal archive for a lot of this stuff, but this one  

>should be

>     in the

>     matronics archives as well. 

>

>     Rob Wright

>     #392

>     QB Wings

>

>     --

Rick S.

Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 347
Location: Las Vegas

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:22 am Post subject: torque tube support attach to wing root rib

Yeah...like I said flatten the bead, we are only talking depressing the very edge of the bead on one side then riveting a robust .125 angle right next to it that is secured to the rib, top and bottom skins. When you finish this assembly it is strong as can be.  It ain't an F-18.  

  

 Don't expect Van's to change the hydroform molds for the ribs until the existing one wears out, that costs money, which shuld be used to improve the quality of the (at)#$!(at)#%^ fiberglass top.

  

 Rick S.

 40185

_________________
Rick S.
RV-10
40185

Rick S.

Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 347
Location: Las Vegas

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:26 am Post subject: torque tube support attach to wing root rib

http://www.myrv10.com/Plans/RV10_Plans_sec14-pg03.html

  

 heres the plan page

_________________
Rick S.
RV-10
40185

Rick S.

Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 347
Location: Las Vegas

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:28 am Post subject: torque tube support attach to wing root rib

Do the right side first, then the left will come better.

  

 Rick S.

 40185

_________________
Rick S.
RV-10
40185

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV10-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours Goto page 1, 2 Next
Page 1 of 2

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum