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deneals
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 29
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 Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:47 pm Post subject: Probes of cargo crashes often pin blame on pilots |
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A three part story is currently appearing in the Miami Herald about accidents involving operators of cargo aircraft in the type of operations I was involved in for a long time.
Click “ Interactive | View copies of government crash reports, a photo gallery and listen to firsthand interviews” (under the picture of the MU2) to see the complete report. There are three pages devoted to the MU2 including an audio interview with the widow of the Epps accident pilot.
| Quote: |
Probes of cargo crashes often pin blame on pilotsIn the sky over Idaho in icy weather, the Cessna 208B's wings began to flutter, and pilot Fred Villanueva, a Vietnam War veteran, could not hold them. The wings moved ''side to side,'' a witness said, and then the nose dropped -- classic signs of icing.
The full article will be available on the Web for a limited time:
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/15005235.htm
(c) 2006 MiamiHerald.com and wire service sources. All Rights Reserved.
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Deneal Schilmeister ATP Learjet
St. Louis, Missouri USA
http://homepage.mac.com/deneals
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nico(at)cybersuperstore.c
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:26 pm Post subject: Probes of cargo crashes often pin blame on pilots |
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Very interesting. There are many Commanders doing night-time cargo runs, but we don’t see them drop out of the sky with comparably qualified/experienced pilots. Doesn’t that say something to aircraft designers (Hello Cessna, the C208 is a recent development) that they can avoid making catastrophic design errors?
About the Caravan: wouldn’t it be cheaper to install an ice detection system on top of the wing, or install a pulsating pump that would cycle the boots at pre-set intervals, so the pilot can go on with his work without worrying about monitoring ice accretion? Just wanna know.
Nico
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deneal Schilmeister (iMac)
Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 1:45 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Probes of cargo crashes often pin blame on pilots
A three part story is currently appearing in the Miami Herald about accidents involving operators of cargo aircraft in the type of operations I was involved in for a long time.
Click “ Interactive | View copies of government crash reports, a photo gallery and listen to firsthand interviews” (under the picture of the MU2) to see the complete report. There are three pages devoted to the MU2 including an audio interview with the widow of the Epps accident pilot.
Probes of cargo crashes often pin blame on pilotsIn the sky over Idaho in icy weather, the Cessna 208B's wings began to flutter, and pilot Fred Villanueva, a Vietnam War veteran, could not hold them. The wings moved ''side to side,'' a witness said, and then the nose dropped -- classic signs of icing.
The full article will be available on the Web for a limited time:
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/15005235.htm
(c) 2006 MiamiHerald.com and wire service sources. All Rights Reserved.
--
Deneal Schilmeister ATP Learjet
St. Louis, Missouri USA
http://homepage.mac.com/deneals
| | - The Matronics Commander-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Skyhawkc-172
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 84
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:26 pm Post subject: Probes of cargo crashes often pin blame on pilots |
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Flew Commanders for "Central Air Southwest", most of the Commanders here have 15,000 ish TT hours and fly all weather day & night cargo. Centrals 30+ Commanders have the TKS System installed. I can personally testify these Commanders go thru just about anything. Hit the TKS switch in hard IFR/ICING conditions and your left with an ice free aircraft, if that doesn't work flip the doubling switch for twice the pumping power of alcohol and literally plow through the ice filled conditions with an ice clear airframe. Iceing boots work too, but most of the cargo pilots I've talked to say they work sometimes...and if the boots don't work or work partially you'll find yourself flying sideways.
" J.T. has done an immpecable job of making an already safe aircraft even safer! "
Maybe some cargo operators should take notice at what JT has done...
| Quote: | -------------- Original message --------------
From: "nico css" <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
Very interesting. There are many Commanders doing night-time cargo runs, but we don’t see them drop out of the sky with comparably qualified/experienced pilots. Doesn’t that say something to aircraft designers (Hello Cessna, the C208 is a recent development) that they can avoid making catastrophic design errors?
About the Caravan: wouldn’t it be cheaper to install an ice detection system on top of the wing, or install a pulsating pump that would cycle the boots at pre-set intervals, so the pilot can go on with his work without worrying about monitoring ice accretion? Just wanna know.
Nico
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deneal Schilmeister (iMac)
Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 1:45 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Probes of cargo crashes often pin blame on pilots
A three part story is currently appearing in the Miami Herald about accidents involving operators of cargo aircraft in the type of operations I was involved in for a long time.
Click “ Interactive | View copies of government crash reports, a photo gallery and listen to firsthand interviews” (under the picture of the MU2) to see the complete report. There are three pages devoted to the MU2 including an audio interview with the widow of the Epps accident pilot.
Probes of cargo crashes often pin blame on pilotsIn the sky over <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Idaho in icy weather, the Cessna 208B's wings began to flutter, and pilot Fred Villanueva, a Vietnam War veteran, could not hold them. The wings moved ''side to side,'' a witness said, and then the nose dropped -- classic signs of icing.
The full article will be available on the Web for a limited time:
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/15005235.htm
(c) 2006 MiamiHerald.com and wire service sources. All Rights Reserved.
--
Deneal Schilmeister ATP Learjet
St. Louis, Missouri USA
http://homepage.mac.com/deneals
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YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 8:22 pm Post subject: Probes of cargo crashes often pin blame on pilots |
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In a message dated 7/10/2006 3:27:42 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, skyhawkc-172(at)comcast.net writes:
| Quote: | | Maybe some cargo operators should take notice at what JT has done... |
AMEN, AMEN, AMEN!! jb
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bowing74(at)earthlink.net
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| Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:33 am Post subject: Probes of cargo crashes often pin blame on pilots |
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After 26 years of night freight I have observed that freight moves at night and the FAA works 9AM to 5PM. They only come out at night when the absolutely have to. When they do, they may or may not know what is going on in the airplane. When I flew Electras there were only 2 or three FAA people in the country who had even the faintest idea of how it worked or whether it was working correctly. Ours NEVER were.
So there are no cops watching then to keep them honest.
I think Mr. Tower is one, but would be hard pressed to name another.
bilbo
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 12:21 AM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Probes of cargo crashes often pin blame on pilots
In a message dated 7/10/2006 3:27:42 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, skyhawkc-172(at)comcast.net writes:
| Quote: |
Maybe some cargo operators should take notice at what JT has done... |
AMEN, AMEN, AMEN!! jb
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deneals
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:22 am Post subject: Probes of cargo crashes often pin blame on pilots |
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Hi Bilbo:
I agree with you re the FAA, but I can recall a few ramp checks at night in FAA-located airports on nights before 3 day weekends.
When I first knew John Towner, I was impressed on how seriously he took the flying freight business. I know of another Commander freight guy out west in the late 1970s who made his planes freighters by cutting out the rear bulkhead of his 680s.
John Towner made a process out of taking old Commanders and turning them into reliable STANDARDIZED freighters.
Some of you may be old enough to remember that these airplanes were equipped in all sorts of different ways. I’m sure Jimbo can attest to the weird things that owners would put in their planes.
John would start out by ripping out the original instrument panels and install standard instruments and a whole new King IFR radio stack. This would ease pilot training and pilot confusion. He insisted on front door airplanes, and I believe he even installed a front door on at least one airplane. He finished up by repainting his airplanes in a standardized paint job.
In the last few years he has abandoned the standard paint, not wanting to appear obvious as an air carrier. (Although most aviators, seeing a 500B flying at night, would be 90% sure it was a Central Air commander)
He provided the test-bed plane for the Cleveland Brakes STC. He was on the forefront when new improved lightweight starters were made available, and of course, he is known for his development of the TKS icing system. And just this year, he and his son Andrew have developed a computerized view Commander simulator, Not to mention having the relationships required to have Bob Hoover fly his airshow at a company picnic at least two times!
For a night freight guy, in a world of fly-by-night operators, John Towner is different. He really cares. Once we had a guy run a 690A out of fuel. He walked away from a night crash landing. I was mad because this particular 690 was my favorite airplane in our fleet at the time. But the very next day, John asked me to take this pilot up for a little recurrent training, to help the pilot’s confidence by getting him “back on the horse” right away.
He truly cares for people and should be in the Commander Hall of Fame. 26 years after I first met him, we are still friends.
<\soapbox>
___________________________
Deneal Schilmeister
St. Louis - Cincinnati
1997 SL500
http://homepage.mac.com/deneals/SL500.htm
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steve2(at)sover.net
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| Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:26 am Post subject: Probes of cargo crashes often pin blame on pilots |
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Mitsubishis seem to be falling out of the sky like raindrops. It was last year or so some poor bastard road one down from 17,000(?) just a few miles from here in Pittsfield.
Flying over the scene it was pretty evident there was no forward velocity at all..... The crash made a tiny footprint.
[quote] ---
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deneals
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:02 am Post subject: Probes of cargo crashes often pin blame on pilots |
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http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20040402X00418&key=1
NTSB Identification: NYC04FA093.
The docket is stored in the Docket Management System (DMS). Please contact Records Management Division
Nonscheduled 14 CFR Part 135: Air Taxi & Commuter
Accident occurred Thursday, March 25, 2004 in Pittsfield, MA
Probable Cause Approval Date: 7/7/2005
Aircraft: Mitsubishi MU-2B-36, registration: N201UV
Injuries: 1 Fatal.
Approximately 3 minutes prior to the accident, the airplane was flying in a northeast direction, at 17,100 feet, and was instructed by air traffic controllers to contact Boston Center. He acknowledged the instruction, and no further transmissions were received from the pilot. Radar data indicated the airplane continued level at 17,100 feet on a northeasterly heading, and maintained a groundspeed of 255 knots, for approximately 2 minutes after the last transmission. The airplane then climbed 300 feet, and descended abruptly, loosing 10,700 feet during the next 46 seconds, while maintaining an approximate groundspeed of 255 knots. The airplane then initiated a climb from 6,700 feet to 7,600 feet, maintained an altitude of 7,600 feet for 4 seconds, and then entered a continuous descent until the last radar contact 17 seconds later, at an altitude of 2,400 feet. Several witnesses observed the airplane prior to it impacting the ground. All of the witness described the airplane in a "flat spin" with the engines running prior to impact. Examination of recorded weather data revealed several areas of light-to-moderate precipitation echoes in the vicinity of the accident site. The maximum echo tops were depicted ranging from 14,000 to 25,000 feet, with tops near 17,000 feet in the immediate vicinity of the accident site. Recorded radar images depicted the airplane traveling through an area of lower echoes for approximately 5-minutes immediately prior to the accident. AIRMET Zulu was current for icing conditions from the freezing level to 22,000 feet over the route of flight and the accident site. Four PIREPs were also issued indicating light-to-moderate rime to mixed icing in the clouds from the freezing level to 16,000 feet. Cloud tops were reported from 16,000 to 17,000 feet by two aircraft. Examination of the airplane and engines revealed no pre-impact mechanical anomalies. Additionally, examination of the cockpit overhead switch panel indicated propeller de-ice, engine intake heat, windshield anti-ice, and wing de-ice were all in the 'off' position. According to the pilot's toxicology test results, pseudoephedrine and diphenhydramine was detected in the pilot's urine. Diphenhydramine was not detected in the blood.
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