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algate(at)attglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:24 am Post subject: Navman

Somebody mentioned previously a price and contact for the Navman fuel flow

meter. I have a friend looking for one and would appreciate it if I could

get the contact details.



Best regards



Gary Algate

dave(at)cfisher.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:38 am Post subject: Navman

Gary,



I got mine here for 111 $  shipped to Canada overnight , I think it was 130$ 

total and works fine.

I just flew 7.5  hour x country in 582 on Floats and fuel flow and usage 

seemed to be right on the numbers.

http://www.boatersland.com/navf2100.html

Dave

---

msm_9949(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:31 am Post subject: Navman

Dave -

   

  Where in your fuel system did you install the transducer for your Navman?



Dave <dave(at)cfisher.com> wrote:

   	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave" 



Gary,



I got mine here for 111 $ shipped to Canada overnight , I think it was 130$ 

total and works fine.

	




Marco Menezes

Model 2 582 N99KX

  		Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. [url=http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=36035/*http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/  ]Try it free.[/url]

dave(at)cfisher.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:41 am Post subject: Navman

Hi Marco. 

  

 It is right below the fuel pump that is  mounted to the firewall after the gascolator. Only thing I did not like is that  the transducer is 3/8" and my fuel line is 1/4" I used angle adapters and it  seems to work ok.  I would guess over 100 hours on it now. 

  

  

 Dave 

 [quote]   ---

algate(at)attglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:04 am Post subject: Navman

Likewise I have the Mizer already installed in my Kitfox with over 300 hrs. The Mizer is the Navman with a new Decal and  an aviation rating  and a new price : +$300.00  

   

The transducer is carbon reinforced plastic and I have it fitted between the main filter and the inlet of the fuel pump.  Cliff mentioned that he felt the plastic transducer might be a problem but I have the same transducer and it is certified for aviation use so I think in this instance it is fine.   

   

After 4500 ltrs of fuel it reads accuracy to within 1 ltr. Pretty amazing.  

   

To Dave – Thanks for the info I’ll contact them today   

   

Gary Algate  

   

   

   

         

  

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave

 Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 2:41 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Navman  

  

     

Hi Marco.   

    

   

    

It is right below the fuel pump that is mounted to the firewall after the gascolator. Only thing I did not like is that the transducer is 3/8" and my fuel line is 1/4" I used angle adapters and it seems to work ok.  I would guess over 100 hours on it now.   

    

   

    

   

    

Dave   

  [quote]    

---

dave(at)cfisher.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:30 am Post subject: Navman

Gary it sounds like your transducer is quite the  same as my Navman.

  

 Dave

  

  

 [quote]   ---

shoeless(at)barefootpilot
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:36 am Post subject: Navman

Gary,

I didn't know they had one for avaition use. Mine is the marine unit and not 

really suitable for aviation. I would like to see this aviation unit, I 

couldn't find it on their web site at www.navman.com.

Cliff

Likewise I have the Mizer already installed in my Kitfox with over 300 hrs.

The Mizer is the Navman with a new Decal and  an aviation rating  and a new

price : +$300.00



The transducer is carbon reinforced plastic and I have it fitted between the

main filter and the inlet of the fuel pump.  Cliff mentioned that he felt

the plastic transducer might be a problem but I have the same transducer and

it is certified for aviation use so I think in this instance it is fine.



After 4500 ltrs of fuel it reads accuracy to within 1 ltr. Pretty amazing.



To Dave - Thanks for the info I'll contact them today



Gary Algate



  _____



[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave

Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 2:41 PM



Hi Marco.



It is right below the fuel pump that is mounted to the firewall after the

gascolator. Only thing I did not like is that the transducer is 3/8" and my

fuel line is 1/4" I used angle adapters and it seems to work ok.  I would

guess over 100 hours on it now.



Dave



---

dave(at)cfisher.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:58 am Post subject: Navman

Here is the actual manual for  the Navman 2100  

 http://www.navman.com/upload/Marine/Internet_Manuals/2000/2100_fuel_MN000207A_eng_web.pdf

  

 Dave

  

  

 [quote]   ---

morid(at)northland.lib.mi
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:47 pm Post subject: Navman

Don't forget about Floscan.  It's also an  excellent unit as I can attest after 325 hours.  Very accurate.   Available in marine catalogs line Consumer Marine, West Marine,  etc.

 Deke

  

 [quote]   ---

pwmac(at)sisna.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:20 pm Post subject: Navman

Hey Cliff,

  I searched and searched for Fuel Mizer then found out that Navman 

took them over same country - Australia. When the list discovered the 

Fuel Mizer, way back in time, the guys who bought them said the 

aviation on had threaded fittings and the boat one had push-on hose 

fittings. Now the aviation one is over USD300 and the boat one is a 

little over USD100. The transducer and the head were apparently the 

same. It has a small turbine just like the Flowscan. IMO, push-on 

connection works just fine, just like the pushon connection on the 

Rotax fuel pump. Both were 3/8" fittings. Installation for those who 

have not got one should be in a vertical line downstream of your fuel 

filter. Per the install manual.

With regard to "not suitable for aviation". I strongly disagree. The 

things are made for marine use and they use the same gasoline laced 

with bad chemicals that we use in our cars. I think the Coast guard 

would ban them if they ever failed and caused a fuel leak. That 

feature alone makes it suitable for my use.

Regards, Paul

PS, I guess you use Mil 6000 fuel hose because the stuff is approved 

for aviation. Good luck. PW

==================

At 01:34 PM 7/11/2006, you wrote:

[quote]

<shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com>



Gary,

I didn't know they had one for avaition use. Mine is the marine unit and not

really suitable for aviation. I would like to see this aviation unit, I

couldn't find it on their web site at www.navman.com.

Cliff

Likewise I have the Mizer already installed in my Kitfox with over 300 hrs.

The Mizer is the Navman with a new Decal and  an aviation rating  and a new

price : +$300.00



The transducer is carbon reinforced plastic and I have it fitted between the

main filter and the inlet of the fuel pump.  Cliff mentioned that he felt

the plastic transducer might be a problem but I have the same transducer and

it is certified for aviation use so I think in this instance it is fine.



After 4500 ltrs of fuel it reads accuracy to within 1 ltr. Pretty amazing.



To Dave - Thanks for the info I'll contact them today



Gary Algate



   _____



[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave

Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 2:41 PM



Hi Marco.



It is right below the fuel pump that is mounted to the firewall after the

gascolator. Only thing I did not like is that the transducer is 3/8" and my

fuel line is 1/4" I used angle adapters and it seems to work ok.  I would

guess over 100 hours on it now.



Dave



---

shoeless(at)barefootpilot
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:39 pm Post subject: Navman

Paul,

I would be happy if I had the screw-on fittings (metal)

What I have is the marine plastic push on. The unit works well enough and 

will certainly stand up to any fuel that I throw at it. The issue is the 

flimsy plastic hose barbs. It for this reason and this reason only that I 

made the statement about not being suitable for aviation and I STRONGLY 

stand by that statement.

This is experimental aviation so you can use whatever you want. I clearly 

gave my reason for my statement in a previous message, but no one has 

bothered to address that issue. Instead I get sarcasm about Mil 6000. If you 

paid the least bit attention you would know that I was one who suffered mil 

6000 destruction when using mogas on our first kitfox and I have been a 

strong opponent of that crap for mogas use ever since. Despite the 

experience of many on the list there are still those with their head in the 

sand about mil 6000. Just because it hasn't happened to them ...it's not a 

problem. I have first hand experience with the marine sender with the 

plastic hose barb fittings, do you?



I have lots of "experimental" stuff on my plane, but each item is evaluated 

for it's suitability for the job and for the environment in which it has to 

perform. Despite the insinuation, I am not one of those that only uses 

official "aviation" approved parts. But I am one that tries to spot problems 

areas BEFORE they become a problem.

The reality is that the marine fuel sender "might" just last a long time in 

an airplane, or it might not. In my view the one with the plastic hose barbs 

is suspect and there are better options available.

I like my Navman unit, but I want to replace the sender. The fuel mizer unit 

might be just the ticket, or I might try a flowscan sender for under $200. 

The fuel mizer with the threaded fittings sound like a great unit, but I 

still would recommend to those that haven't installed one yet to NOT use the 

one with plastic hose barb fittings. It's my opinion and it's likely worth 

what you paid for it.

I'm finished venting now, lets go have a beer together... 

Best regards,

Cliff

PS, I've had my share of issues with our kitfoxes over the years and I 

always try to share with the list the ones that I think are important 

(meaning someone could get hurt) But I have learned that most people will 

pay no heed to it until it happens to them. I have no delusion about 

changing anyone's mind that already has a marine sender in their plane. I 

make these comments for the builder that hasn't installed one yet.

Hey Cliff,

  I searched and searched for Fuel Mizer then found out that Navman

took them over same country - Australia. When the list discovered the

Fuel Mizer, way back in time, the guys who bought them said the

aviation on had threaded fittings and the boat one had push-on hose

fittings. Now the aviation one is over USD300 and the boat one is a

little over USD100. The transducer and the head were apparently the

same. It has a small turbine just like the Flowscan. IMO, push-on

connection works just fine, just like the pushon connection on the

Rotax fuel pump. Both were 3/8" fittings. Installation for those who

have not got one should be in a vertical line downstream of your fuel

filter. Per the install manual.

With regard to "not suitable for aviation". I strongly disagree. The

things are made for marine use and they use the same gasoline laced

with bad chemicals that we use in our cars. I think the Coast guard

would ban them if they ever failed and caused a fuel leak. That

feature alone makes it suitable for my use.

Regards, Paul

PS, I guess you use Mil 6000 fuel hose because the stuff is approved

for aviation. Good luck. PW

==================

At 01:34 PM 7/11/2006, you wrote:

[quote]

<shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com>



Gary,

I didn't know they had one for avaition use. Mine is the marine unit and 

not

really suitable for aviation. I would like to see this aviation unit, I

couldn't find it on their web site at www.navman.com.

Cliff

Likewise I have the Mizer already installed in my Kitfox with over 300 hrs.

The Mizer is the Navman with a new Decal and  an aviation rating  and a new

price : +$300.00



The transducer is carbon reinforced plastic and I have it fitted between 

the

main filter and the inlet of the fuel pump.  Cliff mentioned that he felt

the plastic transducer might be a problem but I have the same transducer 

and

it is certified for aviation use so I think in this instance it is fine.



After 4500 ltrs of fuel it reads accuracy to within 1 ltr. Pretty amazing.



To Dave - Thanks for the info I'll contact them today



Gary Algate



   _____



[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave

Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 2:41 PM



Hi Marco.



It is right below the fuel pump that is mounted to the firewall after the

gascolator. Only thing I did not like is that the transducer is 3/8" and my

fuel line is 1/4" I used angle adapters and it seems to work ok.  I would

guess over 100 hours on it now.



Dave



---

msm_9949(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:06 am Post subject: Navman

I think I speak for everyone on the list in saying we sincerely appreciate your insights and experience Cliff. You clearly have a strong opinion on this. As a builder who has not yet installed a marine transducer into his fuel system (but is leaning in that direction), I'm very curious as to exactly what your experience has been with the barbed hose fittings on the NavMan transducer. Have you had one fail or do you know of one failing either in marine or aviation applications? Just trying to get the facts.

   

  Thanks.

   

  



Clifford Begnaud <shoeless(at)barefootpilot.com> wrote:

  [quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford Begnaud" 



Paul,

I would be happy if I had the screw-on fittings (metal)

What I have is the marine plastic push on. The  unit works well enough and 

will certainly stand up to any fuel that I throw at it. The issue is the 

flimsy plastic hose barbs. It for this reason and this reason only that I 

made the statement about not being suitable for aviation and I STRONGLY 

stand by that statement.

This is experimental aviation so you can use whatever you want. I clearly 

gave my reason for my statement in a previous message, but no one has 

bothered to address that issue. Instead I get sarcasm about Mil 6000. If you 

paid the least bit attention you would know that I was one who suffered mil 

6000 destruction when using mogas on our first kitfox and I have been a 

strong opponent of that crap for mogas use ever since. Despite the 

experience of many on the list there are still those with their head in the 

sand about mil 6000. Just because it hasn't happened to them ...it's not a 

problem. I have first hand experience with the marine sender with the  

plastic hose barb fittings, do you?



I have lots of "experimental" stuff on my plane, but each item is evaluated 

for it's suitability for the job and for the environment in which it has to 

perform. Despite the insinuation, I am not one of those that only uses 

official "aviation" approved parts. But I am one that tries to spot problems 

areas BEFORE they become a problem.

The reality is that the marine fuel sender "might" just last a long time in 

an airplane, or it might not. In my view the one with the plastic hose barbs 

is suspect and there are better options available.

I like my Navman unit, but I want to replace the sender. The fuel mizer unit 

might be just the ticket, or I might try a flowscan sender for under $200. 

The fuel mizer with the threaded fittings sound like a great unit, but I 

still would recommend to those that haven't installed one yet to NOT use the 

one with plastic hose barb fittings. It's my opinion  and it's likely worth 

what you paid for it.

I'm finished venting now, lets go have a beer together... 

Best regards,

Cliff

PS, I've had my share of issues with our kitfoxes over the years and I 

always try to share with the list the ones that I think are important 

(meaning someone could get hurt) But I have learned that most people will 

pay no heed to it until it happens to them. I have no delusion about 

changing anyone's mind that already has a marine sender in their plane. I 

make these comments for the builder that hasn't installed one yet.

Hey Cliff,

I searched and searched for Fuel Mizer then found out that Navman

took them over same country - Australia. When the list discovered the

Fuel Mizer, way back in time, the guys who bought them said the

aviation on had threaded fittings and the boat one had push-on hose

fittings. Now the aviation one is over USD300 and the boat one is a

little over USD100. The  transducer and the head were apparently the

same. It has a small turbine just like the Flowscan. IMO, push-on

connection works just fine, just like the pushon connection on the

Rotax fuel pump. Both were 3/8" fittings. Installation for those who

have not got one should be in a vertical line downstream of your fuel

filter. Per the install manual.

With regard to "not suitable for aviation". I strongly disagree. The

things are made for marine use and they use the same gasoline laced

with bad chemicals that we use in our cars. I think the Coast guard

would ban them if they ever failed and caused a fuel leak. That

feature alone makes it suitable for my use.

Regards, Paul

PS, I guess you use Mil 6000 fuel hose because the stuff is approved

for aviation. Good luck. PW

==================

At 01:34 PM 7/11/2006, you wrote:

[quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Clifford  Begnaud"

Gary,

I didn't know they had one for avaition use. Mine is the marine unit and 

not

really suitable for aviation. I would like to see this aviation unit, I

couldn't find it on their web site at www.navman.com.

Cliff

Likewise I have the Mizer already installed in my Kitfox with over 300 hrs.

The Mizer is the Navman with a new Decal and an aviation rating and a new

price : +$300.00



The transducer is carbon reinforced plastic and I have it fitted between 

the

main filter and the inlet of the fuel pump. Cliff mentioned that he felt

the plastic transducer might be a problem but I have the same transducer 

and

it is certified for aviation use so I think in this instance it is fine.



After 4500 ltrs of fuel it reads accuracy to within 1 ltr. Pretty  amazing.



To Dave - Thanks for the info I'll contact them today



Gary Algate



 _____



[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave

Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 2:41 PM



Hi Marco.



It is right below the fuel pump that is mounted to the firewall after the

gascolator. Only thing I did not like is that the transducer is 3/8" and my

fuel line is 1/4" I used angle adapters and it seems to work ok. I would

guess over 100 hours on it now.



Dave



---

shoeless(at)barefootpilot
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:13 am Post subject: Navman

Marco

It has not failed... yet. I don't know of any that have failed, but then I 

don't know who else has it installed. At one point my mil 6000 fuel hose had 

not failed, at one point my aluminum tailwheel spring had not failed, at one 

point my second aluminum tailwheel spring had not failed, at one point my 

two- leaf steel tw spring had not failed, at one point the fuel sight tube 

fittings had not failed, at one point my rudder pedals had not failed,  at 

one  point ....well do I really need to go on?



The plastic barbs might NEVER fail. It might outlive the airplane. This is 

just about balancing the choices about what you put in your plane. The point 

is that it is a potential failure point and if it does fail in flight, what 

are the consequences? I'm just balancing the chances of failure with the 

consequences of failure. If the only other choice cost $1000 more, that 

would certainly change the formula. But the cost difference between the 

plastic hose barbs and something better is not that great.



The formula for balancing risk vs reward will be different for each of us. 

I'm just sharing the way that I look at things. I have spent my entire life 

doing very risky things, aviation being one of the safer ones. I even make 

my living balancing risk vs reward every day by trading the futures markets. 

I've seen the consequences of poorly balanced risk vs reward far too many 

times....

Best regards,

Cliff



I think I speak for everyone on the list in saying we sincerely appreciate 

your insights and experience Cliff. You clearly have a strong opinion on 

this. As a builder who has not yet installed a marine transducer into his 

fuel system (but is leaning in that direction), I'm very curious as to 

exactly what your experience has been with the barbed hose fittings on the 

NavMan transducer. Have you had one fail or do you know of one failing 

either in marine or aviation applications? Just trying to get the facts.



  Thanks.

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