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punchy(at)frontiernet.net
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 Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:49 pm Post subject: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1 |
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Anybody have experience in installing or replacing the matco brake
assembly on the KIS TR1? I am in need of replacing the complete
assembly and brakes (exclusive of the master cyl) on my 1997 KIS TR1
Need any input as to parts needed and how to (lessons learned would be
also appreciated)
Located in Saint Johns, AZ , KSJN
Rob
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fredorosa(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:07 pm Post subject: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1 |
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You need O.C. Baker's input. He replaced his with Grove brakes and got much better results.
On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 8:47 PM, Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> KIS-List message posted by: Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)>
Anybody have experience in installing or replacing the matco brake assembly on the KIS TR1? I am in need of replacing the complete assembly and brakes (exclusive of the master cyl) on my 1997 KIS TR1
Need any input as to parts needed and how to (lessons learned would be also appreciated)
Located in Saint Johns, AZ , KSJN
Rob
====================================
List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
====================================
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
====================================
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
====================================
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================
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| | - The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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punchy(at)frontiernet.net
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:59 pm Post subject: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1 |
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I guess I need to talk to OC.
OC if you are out there I need to talk to you about replacing the existing matco brake assembly on the
KIS TR1. That is to say: the brake calipers, the brake pads, and the rotors
Rob
On 06/25/2017 06:06 PM, Alfred Rosa wrote:
| Quote: | You need O.C. Baker's input. He replaced his with Grove brakes and got much better results.
On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 8:47 PM, Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> KIS-List message posted by: Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)>
Anybody have experience in installing or replacing the matco brake assembly on the KIS TR1? I am in need of replacing the complete assembly and brakes (exclusive of the master cyl) on my 1997 KIS TR1
Need any input as to parts needed and how to (lessons learned would be also appreciated)
Located in Saint Johns, AZ , KSJN
Rob
====================================
List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
====================================
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
====================================
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
====================================
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================
|
|
| | - The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:23 pm Post subject: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1 |
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Hi Rob,
My TR-1 is kit#47 and there were a number of KIS owners with Matco brake
problems including me. In effective stopping and having to replace pads
every 50 hours or so. The problem was not with the brakes but the geometry
of the brake peddles, they are to short and don't apply the correct pressure
at the pads. As I recall I was getting only a few hundred pounds of pressure
and we need about 2000 lbs., as I recall. I lengthened my peddles and got
the proper pressure at the pads and they work very well now. Probably not
quite as good as Grove but acceptable and allot less expensive than
changing. My pressure numbers may not be correct but the difference is
dramatic.
I met with the owner of Matco Mfg. at Oshkosh in 2010, I think, and used his
demonstration rig to see the difference the brake peddle geometry made and
it worked great for me. I also upgraded to his new rotor design and replaced
the piston pucks. He had all the necessary replacement parts.
I would recommend giving them a call.
Tim
N52TY
--
| | - The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List |
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ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:27 pm Post subject: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1 |
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OC is bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)
Tim
From: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 6:59 PM
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1
I guess I need to talk to OC.
OC if you are out there I need to talk to you about replacing the existing matco brake assembly on the
KIS TR1. That is to say: the brake calipers, the brake pads, and the rotors
Rob
On 06/25/2017 06:06 PM, Alfred Rosa wrote:
| Quote: | You need O.C. Baker's input. He replaced his with Grove brakes and got much better results.
On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 8:47 PM, Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> KIS-List message posted by: Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)>
Anybody have experience in installing or replacing the matco brake assembly on the KIS TR1? I am in need of replacing the complete assembly and brakes (exclusive of the master cyl) on my 1997 KIS TR1
Need any input as to parts needed and how to (lessons learned would be also appreciated)
Located in Saint Johns, AZ , KSJN
Rob
====================================
List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
====================================
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
====================================
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
====================================
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================
|
|
| | - The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List |
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bakerocb
Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:53 pm Post subject: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1 |
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6/27/2017
Hello Rob, I am in hospital right now -- spaced out on drugs.
Go to KIS archive search. Search for this subject in my posts.
Please let me know if you have any questions.
OC
Sent from my iPad
---------------
On Jun 25, 2017, at 10:26 PM, Tim Yoder <ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com (ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com)> wrote:
----------------
| Quote: |
On 06/25/2017 06:06 PM, Alfred Rosa wrote:
| Quote: | You need O.C. Baker's input. He replaced his with Grove brakes and got much better results.
On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 8:47 PM, Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> KIS-List message posted by: Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)>
Anybody have experience in installing or replacing the matco brake assembly on the KIS TR1? I am in need of replacing the complete assembly and brakes (exclusive of the master cyl) on my 1997 KIS TR1
Need any input as to parts needed and how to (lessons learned would be also appreciated)
Located in Saint Johns, AZ , KSJN
Rob
====================================
|
|
|
| | - The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List |
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bakerocb
Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:01 am Post subject: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1 |
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6/26/2017
Hello Again Rob, Why exclude the master cylinders in the cockpit? The quality of those cylinders and expanding the size of the brake pedals is essential
| | - The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List |
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Robert Reed
Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 331
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:09 am Post subject: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1 |
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Owen,
So sorry to hear that you are in the Hospital and my prayers are with you for a speedy recovery.
Bob Reed
From: Owen C Baker <bakerocb(at)cox.net>
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 1:53 AM
Subject: Re: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1
6/27/2017
Hello Rob, I am in hospital right now -- spaced out on drugs.
Go to KIS archive search. Search for this subject in my posts.
Please let me know if you have any questions.
OC
Sent from my iPad
---------------
On Jun 25, 2017, at 10:26 PM, Tim Yoder <ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com (ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com)> wrote:
----------------
| Quote: |
On 06/25/2017 06:06 PM, Alfred Rosa wrote:
| Quote: | You need O.C. Baker's input. He replaced his with Grove brakes and got much better results.
On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 8:47 PM, Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> KIS-List message posted by: Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)>
Anybody have experience in installing or replacing the matco brake assembly on the KIS TR1? I am in need of replacing the complete assembly and brakes (exclusive of the master cyl) on my 1997 KIS TR1
Need any input as to parts needed and how to (lessons learned would be also appreciated)
Located in Saint Johns, AZ , KSJN
Rob
==== ============================== ==
|
|
|
| | - The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List |
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Robert Reed
Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 331
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:14 am Post subject: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1 |
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Tim,
I never did understand the reasoning behind those original specifications for the Master Cylinders and especially the brake pedals themselves. I can't testify to how much difference it makes (YET) but I decided early on to replace my master cylinders and the rudder/brake pedals with something far more substantial. I know they are heavier but hey...I have lost 15 pounds which more than makes up for it.
Bob Reed
From: Tim Yoder <ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com>
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 9:23 PM
Subject: RE: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1
--> KIS-List message posted by: "Tim Yoder" <ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com (ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com)>
Hi Rob,
My TR-1 is kit#47 and there were a number of KIS owners with Matco brake
problems including me. In effective stopping and having to replace pads
every 50 hours or so. The problem was not with the brakes but the geometry
of the brake peddles, they are to short and don't apply the correct pressure
at the pads. As I recall I was getting only a few hundred pounds of pressure
and we need about 2000 lbs., as I recall. I lengthened my peddles and got
the proper pressure at the pads and they work very well now. Probably not
quite as good as Grove but acceptable and allot less expensive than
changing. My pressure numbers may not be correct but the difference is
dramatic.
I met with the owner of Matco Mfg. at Oshkosh in 2010, I think, and used his
demonstration rig to see the difference the brake peddle geometry made and
it worked great for me. I also upgraded to his new rotor design and replaced
the piston pucks. He had all the necessary replacement parts.
I would recommend giving them a call.
Tim
N52TY
--
| | - The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bakerocb
Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:47 am Post subject: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1 |
|
|
6/26/2017
On Jun 26, 2017, at 10:54 AM, Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | OC, sorry to hear about hospital. No fun there. Hope you get better and out as soon as possible.
|
Thanks.
| Quote: |
My ladder collapsed while climbing off the roof a few years ago and I broke my hip in two places as well as 6 ribs.
I spent a week in the hospital and then 3 week in a 24/7 rehab, so I know about that stuff.
I know that the geometry etc is a problem, but I can handle that ok.
|
If you still have the original kit provided pedals I don't agree.
| Quote: | I am 78 YO and no longer am able to get down inside and under that
panel to reach the the master cylinders etc.
|
That is when you get help. Pay an A&P if needed or ask a mechanical friend.
| Quote: |
I just want to replace all the parts that are on the outside.
Even the wheels are ok so I don't need to replace them unless I go to Grove.
How hard is it to replace the calipers, brake pads, and rotors?
|
Same as when you built the plane if you stay with MATCO.
| Quote: |
Would I gain anything if I did that with Grove parts?
|
Installing Grove parts will require extensive removal of metal from KIS landing gear legs at the bottom.
| Quote: |
Would Grove wheels, calipers, brake pads and rotors work with the existing Matco master cylinders?
|
Yes, but see immediately above.
| Quote: |
I would like to get this bird back in the air before I get much older
|
Understand.
| Quote: |
Any help with question above would be appreciated.
Rob
|
OC
PS: I am 84 years old.
-------------------------
| Quote: |
On 06/26/2017 03:00 AM, Owen C Baker wrote:
| Quote: | 6/26/2017
Hello Again Rob, Why exclude the master cylinders in the cockpit? The quality of those cylinders and expanding the size of the brake pedals is essential.
OC
------------------------------
On Jun 26, 2017, at 2:52 AM, Owen C Baker <bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | 6/27/2017
Hello Rob, I am in hospital right now -- spaced out on drugs.
Go to KIS archive search. Search for this subject in my posts.
Please let me know if you have any questions.
OC
Sent from my iPad
---------------
On Jun 25, 2017, at 10:26 PM, Tim Yoder <ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com (ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com)> wrote:
----------------
| Quote: |
On 06/25/2017 06:06 PM, Alfred Rosa wrote:
| Quote: | You need O.C. Baker's input. He replaced his with Grove brakes and got much better results.
On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 8:47 PM, Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> KIS-List message posted by: Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)>
Anybody have experience in installing or replacing the matco brake assembly on the KIS TR1? I am in need of replacing the complete assembly and brakes (exclusive of the master cyl) on my 1997 KIS TR1
Need any input as to parts needed and how to (lessons learned would be also appreciated)
Located in Saint Johns, AZ , KSJN
Rob
====================================
|
|
|
|
|
|
| | - The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List |
|
|
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| Back to top |
|
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Robert Reed
Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 331
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:08 pm Post subject: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1 |
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|
Thank you BOTH...You two old farts make me feel almost young at just 70.  )))
That is until I get out to the hangar and it's 99 degrees and I am trying to climb into the back of the fuselage to install some controls. BUT, as the attached photo shows...where there's a will there's a way. Not the most effective but lowered the temp from 95 degrees to miserable 84 degrees on the inside. My wife always wanted "Air Conditioning" in the plane.
Good luck Rob and take care of yourself Owen.
Bob Reed
From: Owen C Baker <bakerocb(at)cox.net>
To: Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net>; kis-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: KIS-List: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1
6/26/2017
On Jun 26, 2017, at 10:54 AM, Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)> wrote:
OC, sorry to hear about hospital. No fun there. Hope you get better and out as soon as possible.
Thanks. | Quote: | My ladder collapsed while climbing off the roof a few years ago and I broke my hip in two places as well as 6 ribs. I spent a week in the hospital and then 3 week in a 24/7 rehab, so I know about that stuff. I know that the geometry etc is a problem, but I can handle that ok.
|
If you still have the original kit provided pedals I don't agree. | Quote: | I am 78 YO and no longer am able to get down inside and under that panel to reach the the master cylinders etc.
|
That is when you get help. Pay an A&P if needed or ask a mechanical friend. | Quote: | I just want to replace all the parts that are on the outside. Even the wheels are ok so I don't need to replace them unless I go to Grove. How hard is it to replace the calipers, brake pads, and rotors?
|
Same as when you built the plane if you stay with MATCO. | Quote: | Would I gain anything if I did that with Grove parts?
|
Installing Grove parts will require extensive removal of metal from KIS landing gear legs at the bottom. | Quote: | Would Grove wheels, calipers, brake pads and rotors work with the existing Matco master cylinders?
|
Yes, but see immediately above. | Quote: | I would like to get this bird back in the air before I get much older
|
Understand. | Quote: | Any help with question above would be appreciated. Rob
|
OC
PS: I am 84 years old.
------------------------- | Quote: | On 06/26/2017 03:00 AM, Owen C Baker wrote:
|
6/26/2017
Hello Again Rob, Why exclude the master cylinders in the cockpit? The quality of those cylinders and expanding the size of the brake pedals is essential.
OC
------------------------------
On Jun 26, 2017, at 2:52 AM, Owen C Baker <bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)> wrote:
6/27/2017
Hello Rob, I am in hospital right now -- spaced out on drugs.
Go to KIS archive search. Search for this subject in my posts.
Please let me know if you have any questions.
OC Sent from my iPad
---------------
On Jun 25, 2017, at 10:26 PM, Tim Yoder <ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com (ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com)> wrote:
OC is bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)
Tim
From: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Rob Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 6:59 PM To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com) Subject: Re: Matco Brake assembly for K
I guess I need to talk to OC. OC if you are out there I need to talk to you about replacing the existing matco brake assembly on the KIS TR1. That is to say: the brake calipers, the brake pads, and the rotors Rob
---------------- | Quote: | On 06/25/2017 06:06 PM, Alfred Rosa wrote:
| Quote: | You need O.C. Baker's input. He replaced his with Grove brakes and got much better results.
On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 8:47 PM, Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)> wrote: | Quote: | | --> KIS-List message posted by: Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)> Anybody have experience in installing or replacing the matco brake assembly on the KIS TR1? I am in need of replacing the complete assembly and brakes (exclusive of the master cyl) on my 1997 KIS TR1 Need any input as to parts needed and how to (lessons learned would be also appreciated) Located in Saint Johns, AZ , KSJN Rob ==== ============================== == |
|
|
| | - The Matronics KIS-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List |
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ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:56 pm Post subject: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1 |
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|
Bob,
I've got you beat on the high temps here in the Phoenix area, 100 deg. + for the last two weeks. Fortunately I have younger friends that will get under the panel for me, I'm 74 and could get under the panel but not back out!
Get well OC,
Tim
From: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Reed
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 2:08 PM
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1
Thank you BOTH...You two old farts make me feel almost young at just 70. )))
That is until I get out to the hangar and it's 99 degrees and I am trying to climb into the back of the fuselage to install some controls. BUT, as the attached photo shows...where there's a will there's a way. Not the most effective but lowered the temp from 95 degrees to miserable 84 degrees on the inside. My wife always wanted "Air Conditioning" in the plane.
Good luck Rob and take care of yourself Owen.
Bob Reed
From: Owen C Baker <bakerocb(at)cox.net>
To: Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net>; kis-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1
6/26/2017
On Jun 26, 2017, at 10:54 AM, Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)> wrote:
OC, sorry to hear about hospital. No fun there. Hope you get better and out as soon as possible.
Thanks. | Quote: | My ladder collapsed while climbing off the roof a few years ago and I broke my hip in two places as well as 6 ribs.I spent a week in the hospital and then 3 week in a 24/7 rehab, so I know about that stuff.I know that the geometry etc is a problem, but I can handle that ok.
|
If you still have the original kit provided pedals I don't agree. | Quote: | I am 78 YO and no longer am able to get down inside and under thatpanel to reach the the master cylinders etc.
|
That is when you get help. Pay an A&P if needed or ask a mechanical friend. | Quote: | I just want to replace all the parts that are on the outside. Even the wheels are ok so I don't need to replace them unless I go to Grove.How hard is it to replace the calipers, brake pads, and rotors?
|
Same as when you built the plane if you stay with MATCO. | Quote: | Would I gain anything if I did that with Grove parts?
|
Installing Grove parts will require extensive removal of metal from KIS landing gear legs at the bottom. | Quote: | Would Grove wheels, calipers, brake pads and rotors work with the existing Matco master cylinders?
|
Yes, but see immediately above. | Quote: | I would like to get this bird back in the air before I get much older
|
Understand. | Quote: | Any help with question above would be appreciated.Rob
|
OC
PS: I am 84 years old.
------------------------- | Quote: | On 06/26/2017 03:00 AM, Owen C Baker wrote:
|
6/26/2017
Hello Again Rob, Why exclude the master cylinders in the cockpit? The quality of those cylinders and expanding the size of the brake pedals is essential.
OC
------------------------------
On Jun 26, 2017, at 2:52 AM, Owen C Baker <bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)> wrote:
6/27/2017
Hello Rob, I am in hospital right now -- spaced out on drugs.
Go to KIS archive search. Search for this subject in my posts.
Please let me know if you have any questions.
OCSent from my iPad
---------------
On Jun 25, 2017, at 10:26 PM, Tim Yoder <ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com (ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com)> wrote:
OC is bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)
Tim
From: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of RobSent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 6:59 PMTo: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)Subject: Re: Matco Brake assembly for K
I guess I need to talk to OC. OC if you are out there I need to talk to you about replacing the existing matco brake assembly on theKIS TR1. That is to say: the brake calipers, the brake pads, and the rotorsRob
---------------- | Quote: | On 06/25/2017 06:06 PM, Alfred Rosa wrote:
| Quote: | You need O.C. Baker's input. He replaced his with Grove brakes and got much better results.
On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 8:47 PM, Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)> wrote: | Quote: | | --> KIS-List message posted by: Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)>Anybody have experience in installing or replacing the matco brake assembly on the KIS TR1? I am in need of replacing the complete assembly and brakes (exclusive of the master cyl) on my 1997 KIS TR1Need any input as to parts needed and how to (lessons learned would be also appreciated)Located in Saint Johns, AZ , KSJNRob==== ===== == |
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ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:56 pm Post subject: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1 |
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Bob,
I think it was one of the few misses on the KIS along with the original nose gear design. Although, I believe Rich flew the original design in his plane. I am sure he was a better pilot than me. Remember also, the original KIS power plant was the 80 HP Limbaugh which was lighter and slower than what most all other KIS planes have.
Tim
From: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Reed
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 7:14 AM
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1
Tim,
I never did understand the reasoning behind those original specifications for the Master Cylinders and especially the brake pedals themselves. I can't testify to how much difference it makes (YET) but I decided early on to replace my master cylinders and the rudder/brake pedals with something far more substantial. I know they are heavier but hey....I have lost 15 pounds which more than makes up for it.
Bob Reed
From: Tim Yoder <ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com>
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 9:23 PM
Subject: RE: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1
--> KIS-List message posted by: "Tim Yoder" <ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com (ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com)>
Hi Rob,
My TR-1 is kit#47 and there were a number of KIS owners with Matco brake
problems including me. In effective stopping and having to replace pads
every 50 hours or so. The problem was not with the brakes but the geometry
of the brake peddles, they are to short and don't apply the correct pressure
at the pads. As I recall I was getting only a few hundred pounds of pressure
and we need about 2000 lbs., as I recall. I lengthened my peddles and got
the proper pressure at the pads and they work very well now. Probably not
quite as good as Grove but acceptable and allot less expensive than
changing. My pressure numbers may not be correct but the difference is
dramatic.
I met with the owner of Matco Mfg. at Oshkosh in 2010, I think, and used his
demonstration rig to see the difference the brake peddle geometry made and
it worked great for me. I also upgraded to his new rotor design and replaced
the piston pucks. He had all the necessary replacement parts.
I would recommend giving them a call.
Tim
N52TY
--
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Keith.Miller(at)esa.int
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:54 am Post subject: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1 |
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|
On the subject of access to the brake master cylinders , I installed an
access panel in the underside of the fuselage , makes getting to the various
bolts and tubes , much easier
(See attached file: Dscf0225.jpg)
From: Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net>
To: "kis-list(at)matronics.com" <kis-list(at)matronics.com>
Date: 06/26/2017 11:10 PM
Subject: Re: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1
Sent by: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com
Thank you BOTH...You two old farts make me feel almost young at just
70. )))
That is until I get out to the hangar and it's 99 degrees and I am trying to
climb into the back of the fuselage to install some controls. BUT, as the
attached photo shows...where there's a will there's a way. Not the most
effective but lowered the temp from 95 degrees to miserable 84 degrees on the
inside. My wife always wanted "Air Conditioning" in the plane.
Good luck Rob and take care of yourself Owen.
Bob Reed
From: Owen C Baker <bakerocb(at)cox.net>
To: Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net>; kis-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1
6/26/2017
On Jun 26, 2017, at 10:54 AM, Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net> wrote:
OC, sorry to hear about hospital. No fun there. Hope you get better and out
as soon as possible.
Thanks.
My ladder collapsed while climbing off the roof a few years ago and I
broke my hip in two places as well as 6 ribs.
I spent a week in the hospital and then 3 week in a 24/7 rehab, so I
know about that stuff.
I know that the geometry etc is a problem, but I can handle that ok.
If you still have the original kit provided pedals I don't agree.
I am 78 YO and no longer am able to get down inside and under that
panel to reach the the master cylinders etc.
That is when you get help. Pay an A&P if needed or ask a mechanical friend.
I just want to replace all the parts that are on the outside.
Even the wheels are ok so I don't need to replace them unless I go to
Grove.
How hard is it to replace the calipers, brake pads, and rotors?
Same as when you built the plane if you stay with MATCO.
Would I gain anything if I did that with Grove parts?
Installing Grove parts will require extensive removal of metal from KIS
landing gear legs at the bottom.
Would Grove wheels, calipers, brake pads and rotors work with the
existing Matco master cylinders?
Yes, but see immediately above.
I would like to get this bird back in the air before I get much older
Understand.
Any help with question above would be appreciated.
Rob
OC
PS: I am 84 years old.
-------------------------
On 06/26/2017 03:00 AM, Owen C Baker wrote:
6/26/2017
Hello Again Rob, Why exclude the master cylinders in the cockpit? The quality
of those cylinders and expanding the size of the brake pedals is essential.
OC
------------------------------
On Jun 26, 2017, at 2:52 AM, Owen C Baker <bakerocb(at)cox.net> wrote:
6/27/2017
Hello Rob, I am in hospital right now -- spaced out on drugs.
Go to KIS archive search. Search for this subject in my posts.
Please let me know if you have any questions.
OC
Sent from my iPad
---------------
On Jun 25, 2017, at 10:26 PM, Tim Yoder <ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com> wrote:
OC is bakerocb(at)cox.net
Tim
From: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com [
mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 6:59 PM
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Matco Brake assembly for K
I guess I need to talk to OC.
OC if you are out there I need to talk to you about replacing the existing
matco brake assembly on the
KIS TR1. That is to say: the brake calipers, the brake pads, and the rotors
Rob
----------------
On 06/25/2017 06:06 PM, Alfred Rosa wrote:
You need O.C. Baker's input. He replaced his with Grove brakes
and got much better results.
On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 8:47 PM, Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net>
wrote:
Anybody have experience in installing or replacing the matco
brake assembly on the KIS TR1? I am in need of replacing the
complete assembly and brakes (exclusive of the master cyl) on
my 1997 KIS TR1
Need any input as to parts needed and how to (lessons learned
would be also appreciated)
Located in Saint Johns, AZ , KSJN
Rob
==== ============================== ==
This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or
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pastormac62
Joined: 07 Sep 2015
Posts: 71
Location: Indiana
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:28 am Post subject: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1 |
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|
Keith, the pic didn't cone through. Could you please send again?
To our success, Stephen McIntosh
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fredorosa(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:26 am Post subject: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1 |
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|
You have to scroll all the way down past all messages to reach the pic.
| Quote: | On Jul 10, 2017, at 10:28 AM, pastormac(at)comcast.net wrote:
Keith, the pic didn't cone through. Could you please send again?
To our success, Stephen McIntosh
> On Jul 10, 2017, at 7:53 AM, Keith.Miller(at)esa.int wrote:
>
> jpg
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galinhdz(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:20 am Post subject: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1 |
|
|
I just get my skinny, 28yr old, A&P son-in-law to crawl down there and do the work for me while I have a beer. 
On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 7:53 AM, <Keith.Miller(at)esa.int (Keith.Miller(at)esa.int)> wrote:
| Quote: | On the subject of access to the brake master cylinders , I installed an
access panel in the underside of the fuselage , makes getting to the various
bolts and tubes , much easier
(See attached file: Dscf0225.jpg)
From: Robert Reed <robertr237(at)att.net (robertr237(at)att.net)>
To: "kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)" <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)>
Date: 06/26/2017 11:10 PM
Subject: Re: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1
Sent by: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com)
Thank you BOTH...You two old farts make me feel almost young at just
70. )))
That is until I get out to the hangar and it's 99 degrees and I am trying to
climb into the back of the fuselage to install some controls. BUT, as the
attached photo shows...where there's a will there's a way. Not the most
effective but lowered the temp from 95 degrees to miserable 84 degrees on the
inside. My wife always wanted "Air Conditioning" in the plane.
Good luck Rob and take care of yourself Owen.
Bob Reed
From: Owen C Baker <bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)>
To: Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)>; kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1
6/26/2017
On Jun 26, 2017, at 10:54 AM, Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)> wrote:
OC, sorry to hear about hospital. No fun there. Hope you get better and out
as soon as possible.
Thanks.
My ladder collapsed while climbing off the roof a few years ago and I
broke my hip in two places as well as 6 ribs.
I spent a week in the hospital and then 3 week in a 24/7 rehab, so I
know about that stuff.
I know that the geometry etc is a problem, but I can handle that ok.
If you still have the original kit provided pedals I don't agree.
I am 78 YO and no longer am able to get down inside and under that
panel to reach the the master cylinders etc.
That is when you get help. Pay an A&P if needed or ask a mechanical friend.
I just want to replace all the parts that are on the outside.
Even the wheels are ok so I don't need to replace them unless I go to
Grove.
How hard is it to replace the calipers, brake pads, and rotors?
Same as when you built the plane if you stay with MATCO.
Would I gain anything if I did that with Grove parts?
Installing Grove parts will require extensive removal of metal from KIS
landing gear legs at the bottom.
Would Grove wheels, calipers, brake pads and rotors work with the
existing Matco master cylinders?
Yes, but see immediately above.
I would like to get this bird back in the air before I get much older
Understand.
Any help with question above would be appreciated.
Rob
OC
PS: I am 84 years old.
-------------------------
On 06/26/2017 03:00 AM, Owen C Baker wrote:
6/26/2017
Hello Again Rob, Why exclude the master cylinders in the cockpit? The quality
of those cylinders and expanding the size of the brake pedals is essential.
OC
------------------------------
On Jun 26, 2017, at 2:52 AM, Owen C Baker <bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)> wrote:
6/27/2017
Hello Rob, I am in hospital right now -- spaced out on drugs.
Go to KIS archive search. Search for this subject in my posts.
Please let me know if you have any questions.
OC
Sent from my iPad
---------------
On Jun 25, 2017, at 10:26 PM, Tim Yoder <ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com (ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com)> wrote:
OC is bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)
Tim
From: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com) [
mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Rob
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 6:59 PM
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Matco Brake assembly for K
I guess I need to talk to OC.
OC if you are out there I need to talk to you about replacing the existing
matco brake assembly on the
KIS TR1. That is to say: the brake calipers, the brake pads, and the rotors
Rob
----------------
On 06/25/2017 06:06 PM, Alfred Rosa wrote:
You need O.C. Baker's input. He replaced his with Grove brakes
and got much better results.
On Sun, Jun 25, 2017 at 8:47 PM, Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)>
wrote:
--> KIS-List message posted by: Rob <punchy(at)frontiernet.net (punchy(at)frontiernet.net)>
Anybody have experience in installing or replacing the matco
brake assembly on the KIS TR1? I am in need of replacing the
complete assembly and brakes (exclusive of the master cyl) on
my 1997 KIS TR1
Need any input as to parts needed and how to (lessons learned
would be also appreciated)
Located in Saint Johns, AZ , KSJN
Rob
==== ===== ==
This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or
addressees only.
The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole
or in part) of its
content is not permitted.
If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it
from your system.
Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender.
Please consider the environment before printing this email.
[attachment "IMG_1148.JPG" deleted by Keith Miller/estec/ESA]
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The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole or in part) of its
content is not permitted.
If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system.
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bakerocb
Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:03 pm Post subject: Matco Brake assembly for KIS TR1 |
|
|
7/10/2017
Hello Rob, You wrote: “I know that the geometry etc is a problem, but I can
handle that ok.”
And I wrote: “If you still have the original kit provided pedals I don't
agree.”
See the two attached pictures to see how I solved the pedal problem. I
riveted two rather large pieces of aluminum angel to the front of the
original pedals. This provides a significant improvement in pedal leverage
and the resulting higher brake fluid pressure at the wheels.
The side angles make a perfect place to keep the outside edge of both shoes
against so that you know where your feet are with regard to the brake /
rudder pedals at all times.
OC
PS: I have had people in the left seat of my plane (only side that has
brakes) and when the engine started the plane just spun around like a top
with all left brake and no right brake. They had made the mistaken
assumption the pedals had to be straight ahead of the seat and just plunked
their feet down accordingly. The KIS TR-1 pedals however are not directly in
front of the seats, but instead are offset a bit toward the airplane center
line. This offset is caused by the cross rudder pedal bars being too short.
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