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Building: Fitting the fuselage through the window?

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sim(at)4lists.simonliebol
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:23 am Post subject: Building: Fitting the fuselage through the window?

Dear builders - former and current,



I'm currently in the process of finding a suitable place to build. I've

been offered a couple of rooms that could be turned into a work shop in

a building around the corner. But the big drawback: The widest opening

is a 130cm x 130cm (51'' x 51'') large window. Will this be of use to

complete at least some of the building stages? I thought about building

the fuselage and moving it outside for engine installation. 



It's a mono-wheel. The fuselage width is stated as 1.12m. So this should

be OK. The hight is stated as 1.59m, but this is main-wheel to top of

the vertical stabilizer. It should be less when measured from the

tail-wheel. Plus, the fuselage could be rolled 45° when moving the tail

through the window. With plenty of help, of course.



Is this feasible or should I walk away from this offer? Did you work

shops have similar limitations?



All the best,

Simon

freddythek10(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:32 am Post subject: Building: Fitting the fuselage through the window?

Is the wall which this opening is located within constructed of wood or masonry?



Sent from my iPhone 



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Dec 19, 2018, at 10:22 AM, Simon <sim(at)4lists.simonliebold.de> wrote:

 

 

 

 Dear builders - former and current,

 

 I'm currently in the process of finding a suitable place to build. I've

 been offered a couple of rooms that could be turned into a work shop in

 a building around the corner. But the big drawback: The widest opening

 is a 130cm x 130cm (51'' x 51'') large window. Will this be of use to

 complete at least some of the building stages? I thought about building

 the fuselage and moving it outside for engine installation. 

 

 It's a mono-wheel. The fuselage width is stated as 1.12m. So this should

 be OK. The hight is stated as 1.59m, but this is main-wheel to top of

 the vertical stabilizer. It should be less when measured from the

 tail-wheel. Plus, the fuselage could be rolled 45° when moving the tail

 through the window. With plenty of help, of course.

 

 Is this feasible or should I walk away from this offer? Did you work

 shops have similar limitations?

 

 All the best,

 Simon

sim(at)4lists.simonliebol
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:41 am Post subject: Building: Fitting the fuselage through the window?

Am 19.12.18 um 19:32 schrieb Fred Klein:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Is the wall which this opening is located within constructed of wood or masonry?


	


It's masonry. I think the owner would disapprove if I tried to make it

larger.



Simon

gilles.thesee(at)free.fr
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:58 pm Post subject: Building: Fitting the fuselage through the window?

Le 19/12/2018 à 19:22, Simon a écrit :

 	  Quote: 	
		   But the big drawback: The widest opening

 is a 130cm x 130cm (51'' x 51'') large window. Will this be of use to

 complete at least some of the building stages? I thought about building

 the fuselage and moving it outside for engine installation.



 It's a mono-wheel. The fuselage width is stated as 1.12m. So this should

 be OK. The hight is stated as 1.59m, but this is main-wheel to top of

 the vertical stabilizer. It should be less when measured from the

 tail-wheel. Plus, the fuselage could be rolled 45° when moving the tail

 through the window. With plenty of help, of course.

Hi Simon,
	




That's plenty of room to move the fuselage through a window.

It all depends of what level the window is. Ground level would be 

perfect. Concerning the tail, do you have enough room inside to move the 

fuselage around so as to insert the tail first ? Or room outside to do 

the reverse ?

Of course, you won't install the wheels before getting the fuse through 

the window.



Why not print a side view of the fuselage at a definite scale and try it 

on a plan ?

I've seen many a fuselage getting through much narrower apertures.

-- 

Best regards,

Gilles

http://contrails.free.fr

http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr

sim(at)4lists.simonliebol
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:28 am Post subject: Building: Fitting the fuselage through the window?

Hi Gilles,



Am 19.12.18 um 21:57 schrieb GTH:

 	  Quote: 	
		   That's plenty of room to move the fuselage through a window.

 It all depends of what level the window is. Ground level would be

 perfect. 

Thanks. This sounds encouraging. It is ground level. Sorry, I forgot to
	


mention.

 	  Quote: 	
		   Concerning the tail, do you have enough room inside to move the

 fuselage around so as to insert the tail first ? 

It is not huge on the inside (4,65m x 5,01m). But without cowling it
	


should barely fit. There is a second room that belongs to it (2m x

5.18m) to store smaller parts or the wings etc. The ceiling is at ca.

3.30m. I may be able to store parts underneath it when not working on it. 

 	  Quote: 	
		   Or room outside to do the reverse ?

Yes, it is a corner room and both windows have enough room on the
	


outside. It's a former train station building.

 	  Quote: 	
		   Of course, you won't install the wheels before getting the fuse

 through the window.

It's a mono wheel. I could imagine that it could even fit with the main
	


wheel installed. I remeasured the window. It is actually a bit larger

than initially thought. 1,40m x 1,40m.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Why not print a side view of the fuselage at a definite scale and try

 it on a plan ?

 I've seen many a fuselage getting through much narrower apertures. 


	


Good idea. I will try that.



I took photos of the room, if anyone wants to take a look:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/zpurAR6q4TwX3H8C7



Kind regards,

Simon

freddythek10(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:29 am Post subject: Building: Fitting the fuselage through the window?

A watchword for building the Europa when working on the fuselage is to delay the bonding of the top to the canoe for absolutely as long as possible...thus there is a considerable amount of work which can be done without worrying... and when that’s all finished, you’ll want to trial fit with clecoes, after which you can give it a go thru the window...no harm done.

Sent from my iPhone 

 	  Quote: 	
		   On Dec 20, 2018, at 2:27 AM, Simon <sim(at)4lists.simonliebold.de> wrote:

 Hi Gilles,

> Am 19.12.18 um 21:57 schrieb GTH:

> That's plenty of room to move the fuselage through a window.

> It all depends of what level the window is. Ground level would be

> perfect. 

 Thanks. This sounds encouraging. It is ground level. Sorry, I forgot to

 mention.

> Concerning the tail, do you have enough room inside to move the

> fuselage around so as to insert the tail first ? 

 It is not huge on the inside (4,65m x 5,01m). But without cowling it

 should barely fit. There is a second room that belongs to it (2m x

 5.18m) to store smaller parts or the wings etc. The ceiling is at ca.

 3.30m. I may be able to store parts underneath it when not working on it. 

> Or room outside to do the reverse ?

 Yes, it is a corner room and both windows have enough room on the

 outside. It's a former train station building.

> Of course, you won't install the wheels before getting the fuse

> through the window.

 It's a mono wheel. I could imagine that it could even fit with the main

 wheel installed. I remeasured the window. It is actually a bit larger

 than initially thought. 1,40m x 1,40m.

> 

> Why not print a side view of the fuselage at a definite scale and try

> it on a plan ?

> I've seen many a fuselage getting through much narrower apertures. 

 Good idea. I will try that.

 I took photos of the room, if anyone wants to take a look:

 https://photos.app.goo.gl/zpurAR6q4TwX3H8C7

 Kind regards,

 Simon

gilles.thesee(at)free.fr
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:18 am Post subject: Building: Fitting the fuselage through the window?

Hi Simon,

      	  Quote: 	
		          	  Quote: 	
		  It is not huge on the inside (4,65m x 5,01m). But without cowling it

should barely fit. There is a second room that belongs to it (2m x

5.18m) to store smaller parts or the wings etc. The ceiling is at ca.

3.30m. I may be able to store parts underneath it when not working on it. 

	
     	
     Rooms seem most adequate.

     A 3.30 m ceiling is quite interesting.

      	  Quote: 	
		          	  Quote: 	
		  



It's a mono wheel. I could imagine that it could even fit with the main

wheel installed. 	
     	
     

     Maybe you'll be better off with setting up wheels etc. inside, then     removing them to save weight for the delicate maneuver ?

      	  Quote: 	
		          	  Quote: 	
		   I remeasured the window. It is actually a bit larger

than initially thought. 1,40m x 1,40m.

	
     	
     At first thought, the idea would be to turn the fuselage on it's     side, then somehow "thread" the fuselage through the aperture :

     

     [img]cid:part1.C185672A.A456B807(at)free.fr[/img]

     

     All the best,

     -- 

       Kind regards,

       Gilles

       http://contrails.free.fr

       http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr

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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:04 am Post subject: Building: Fitting the fuselage through the window?

Fred makes a very good  point.

Make a cradle which holds the bottom half in place from Firewall to tail.  My fuse has a slight twist (one end of the tail is 1cm lower than the other) which is the result of not supporting the tail 

Put absolutely everything in with the top off including all the electrics and the instrument panel.  You could probably get the bottom half out easier and then glue the top on somewhere else.

Do remember that the canoe is very floppy and can break easily if not supported.



Will



XS tri 912 Turbo Airmaster Dynon Skyview 100 hours

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018, 10:31 Fred Klein <freddythek10(at)gmail.com (freddythek10(at)gmail.com) wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Klein <freddythek10(at)gmail.com (freddythek10(at)gmail.com)>

 

 

 A watchword for building the Europa when working on the fuselage is to delay the bonding of the top to the canoe for absolutely as long as possible...thus there is a considerable amount of work which can be done without worrying... and when that’s all finished, you’ll want to trial fit with clecoes, after which you can give it a go thru the window...no harm done.

 

 Sent from my iPhone 

 

 > On Dec 20, 2018, at 2:27 AM, Simon <sim(at)4lists.simonliebold.de (sim(at)4lists.simonliebold.de)> wrote:

 > 

 > --> Europa-List message posted by: Simon <sim(at)4lists.simonliebold.de (sim(at)4lists.simonliebold.de)>

 > 

 > Hi Gilles,

 > 

 >> Am 19.12.18 um 21:57 schrieb GTH:

 >> That's plenty of room to move the fuselage through a window.

 >> It all depends of what level the window is. Ground level would be

 >> perfect. 

 > Thanks. This sounds encouraging. It is ground level. Sorry, I forgot to

 > mention.

 >> Concerning the tail, do you have enough room inside to move the

 >> fuselage around so as to insert the tail first ? 

 > It is not huge on the inside (4,65m x 5,01m). But without cowling it

 > should barely fit. There is a second room that belongs to it (2m x

 > 5.18m) to store smaller parts or the wings etc. The ceiling is at ca.

 > 3.30m. I may be able to store parts underneath it when not working on it. 

 >> Or room outside to do the reverse ?

 > Yes, it is a corner room and both windows have enough room on the

 > outside. It's a former train station building.

 >> Of course, you won't install the wheels before getting the fuse

 >> through the window.

 > It's a mono wheel. I could imagine that it could even fit with the main

 > wheel installed. I remeasured the window. It is actually a bit larger

 > than initially thought. 1,40m x 1,40m.

 >> 

 >> Why not print a side view of the fuselage at a definite scale and try

 >> it on a plan ?

 >> I've seen many a fuselage getting through much narrower apertures. 

 > 

 > Good idea. I will try that.

 > 

 > I took photos of the room, if anyone wants to take a look:

 > https://photos.app.goo.gl/zpurAR6q4TwX3H8C7

 > 

 > Kind regards,

 > Simon

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 

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sim(at)4lists.simonliebol
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:32 am Post subject: Building: Fitting the fuselage through the window?

Hi all and thanks for the helpful hints and especially for       pointing out the importance of the alignment part and the part on       insurance. I have to admit, I didn't think about that. It would       make sense to contact a few insurers to get an idea about the       difference in premiums. 

          

The kit came with Hi-Top Mod-64 (non-B) mod. However, I'm not       sold yet on incorporating it. I would add complexity during the       build. I am not tiny but also no basketball player (1.82m or 5ft       11.7in). 

          

I will try to answer all the question in a single message:

          

        	  Quote: 	
		  At first thought, the idea would be to         turn the fuselage on it's side, then somehow "thread" the         fuselage through the aperture :

         

         [img]cid:part1.C4498FC2.AA04CC73(at)4lists.simonliebold.de[/img] 	
          

Thanks Gilles, I like your drawing.      

        	  Quote: 	
		  Make a cradle           which holds the bottom half in place from Firewall to tail. 

         	
          

I bought the kit together with a cradle on wheels:       https://photos.app.goo.gl/bpsFAz7fn1i4dTWu6 I think it will come       handy throughout the built.      



          

        	  Quote: 	
		  Nice size windows. How much does the         window open? Or can the window be easily removed when needing to         transfer? P 	
       I think they open 90° to the side. I will have a chance to test it       tomorrow when I meet to discuss the financial bit. 

          



          

Simon     



          

p.s. 

        	  Quote: 	
		            	  Quote: 	
		  Lancaster, Pa. USA 	
       	
       This was a stop on my solo x-country years back. Aww, memories...

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peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:02 am Post subject: Building: Fitting the fuselage through the window?

FWIW wrt headroom, I am 6' (and shrinking lol), but with a 6'2" seat height, so always have difficulty with headroom in every plane I sit in.

On my kit, I am cutting and lowering the cockpit module seat wedge (I have Andy's approval from way back when)  as far as possible (still accommodating the glider brake control etc), which puts me in a more prone position and gives me the required headroom without ugly bubble windows, or RV-12 looking hi-top pudginess .  The stock fuse shape is just so sweet and efficient.  To make up for my loss of legroom, I am removing the panels bottom "switch" ledge..... lots of panel room these days when going all-glass. 



an aside: I am still amazed how Richard V, ripped off the Europa design elements and threw them together into the slow and dorky pop-rivet RV12.



Cheers and good luck!

Pete

A239



On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 8:41 AM Simon Liebold <sim(at)4lists.simonliebold.de (sim(at)4lists.simonliebold.de)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		                      

Hi all and thanks for the helpful hints and especially for       pointing out the importance of the alignment part and the part on       insurance. I have to admit, I didn't think about that. It would       make sense to contact a few insurers to get an idea about the       difference in premiums. 

          

The kit came with Hi-Top Mod-64 (non-B) mod. However, I'm not       sold yet on incorporating it. I would add complexity during the       build. I am not tiny but also no basketball player (1.82m or 5ft       11.7in). 

          

I will try to answer all the question in a single message:

          

        	  Quote: 	
		  At first thought, the idea would be to         turn the fuselage on it's side, then somehow "thread" the         fuselage through the aperture :

         

         [img]cid:167d101c2eb110c5b3d1[/img] 	
     

     

Thanks Gilles, I like your drawing.      

        	  Quote: 	
		  Make a cradle           which holds the bottom half in place from Firewall to tail. 

         	
     

     

I bought the kit together with a cradle on wheels:       https://photos.app.goo.gl/bpsFAz7fn1i4dTWu6 I think it will come       handy throughout the built.      



          

        	  Quote: 	
		  Nice size windows. How much does the         window open? Or can the window be easily removed when needing to         transfer? P 	
       I think they open 90° to the side. I will have a chance to test it       tomorrow when I meet to discuss the financial bit. 

     

     



          

Simon     



          

p.s. 

        	  Quote: 	
		            	  Quote: 	
		  Lancaster, Pa. USA 	
       	
       This was a stop on my solo x-country years back. Aww, memories...

jhnbiojebbemadcg.png

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Viewed:

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