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Speaking of Aux Batteries

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:11 am Post subject: Speaking of Aux Batteries

Here's a work-in-progress z-figure I've been

 massaging off and on for a few months.



  http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/ZxxP3_1BAT_DualAlt_BO-Boost.pdf 



 One goal of several is to exploit the higher capacity

 pad-driven alternators . . . a thing we considered

 with Z10-20 a few years back.



 This has the three layer architecture of Z10-8 along

 with the e-bus, brown-out boost that was discussed

 here on the list a few months back.



 The value of an aux battery goes away . . . good

 thing . . . you almost can't have too few batteries.

 We're still stuck with one . . . only one.



 

   Bob . . .

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art(at)zemon.name
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:49 pm Post subject: Speaking of Aux Batteries

Bob,

I like the concept of having the brown-out booster incorporated into the core diagram.

I think that you have stuff on the endurance bus that would be hard for the brownout booster to run, In particular, the transponder and the comm radio. My dual 10-inch screen EFIS consumes 2.8 amps typical, 6.25 amps max. The Trig mode S transponder is rated at 3 amps typical and 3 amps max. The comm radio is 0.5 amps typical, 3 amps max.

So I would be happy with a brownout booster that could handle just the EFIS at 2.8 amps, maybe 6 amps. As your diagram is drawn, were I planning my electrical system I would think that I needed a brownout booster that could supply 12.25 amps. That's a big difference.

I think it would be cool to lose the endurance bus and add a light that comes on when a) the airplane is running on the backup alternator, and b) the battery is discharging. The light could say something like "DON'T PANIC BUT IT'S TIME TO SHED SOME LOAD."

Then add a brownout booster bus that has only the equipment on it that needs to operate correctly during engine start, i.e., the engine instruments.

    -- Art Z.





On Sun, Sep 1, 2019 at 11:26 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		    Here's a work-in-progress z-figure I've been

 massaging off and on for a few months.



  http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/ZxxP3_1BAT_DualAlt_BO-Boost.pdf 



 One goal of several is to exploit the higher capacity

 pad-driven alternators . . . a thing we considered

 with Z10-20 a few years back.



 This has the three layer architecture of Z10-8 along

 with the e-bus, brown-out boost that was discussed

 here on the list a few months back.



 The value of an aux battery goes away . . . good

 thing . . . you almost can't have too few batteries.

 We're still stuck with one . . . only one.



 

   Bob . . .  

	


-- 

https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/Love the stranger for you yourselves were strangers in Egypt. Deut. 10:19

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Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:06 pm Post subject: Speaking of Aux Batteries

I suspect you are looking at spec sheets rather than real numbers. My 

Dynon labeled Trig 1090ES transponder runs well below 0.5 amps. My SL-30 

Nav-com is also down around 0.2 amps in receive mode. Each of my 10" 

screens draws 2.5-3.5 amps depending on whether the backup battery is 

charging.

So, I have one switch that turns off one 10" screen and the GTN-650.

That leaves me VHF nav and com, VFR GPS on single 10" screen and 

transponder. However, without the GTN-650, the transponder does not 

output ADSB data, just mode C. Doesn't bother me, because I am already 

in emergency mode if I am load shedding. Or I can leave the GTN-650 on 

(3.5 amps) and just turn off the second screen.

All depends on how much load needs to be shed for given situation.



On 9/3/2019 6:45 PM, Art Zemon wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Bob,

 

 I like the concept of having the brown-out booster incorporated into the 

 core diagram.

 

 I think that you have stuff on the endurance bus that would be hard for 

 the brownout booster to run, In particular, the transponder and the comm 

 radio. My dual 10-inch screen EFIS consumes 2.8 amps typical, 6.25 amps 

 max. The Trig mode S transponder is rated at 3 amps typical and 3 amps 

 max. The comm radio is 0.5 amps typical, 3 amps max.

 

 So I would be happy with a brownout booster that could handle just the 

 EFIS at 2.8 amps, maybe 6 amps. As your diagram is drawn, were I 

 planning my electrical system I would think that I needed a brownout 

 booster that could supply 12.25 amps. That's a big difference.

 

 I think it would be cool to lose the endurance bus and add a light that 

 comes on when a) the airplane is running on the backup alternator, and 

 b) the battery is discharging. The light could say something like "DON'T 

 PANIC BUT IT'S TIME TO SHED SOME LOAD."

 

 Then add a brownout booster bus that has only the equipment on it that 

 needs to operate correctly during engine start, i.e., the engine 

 instruments.

 

      -- Art Z.

 

 

 On Sun, Sep 1, 2019 at 11:26 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III 

 <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com <mailto:nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>> 

 wrote:

 

     Here's a work-in-progress z-figure I've been

     massaging off and on for a few months.

 

     http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/ZxxP3_1BAT_DualAlt_BO-Boost.pdf

 

 

     One goal of several is to exploit the higher capacity

     pad-driven alternators . . . a thing we considered

     with Z10-20 a few years back.

 

     This has the three layer architecture of Z10-8 along

     with the e-bus, brown-out boost that was discussed

     here on the list a few months back.

 

     The value of an aux battery goes away . . . good

     thing . . . you almost can't have too few batteries.

     We're still stuck with one . . . only one.

 

     __

 

     __   Bob . . .

 

 

 

 -- 

 https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/

 

 /Love the stranger for you yourselves were strangers in Egypt. /Deut. 10:19

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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:02 am Post subject: Speaking of Aux Batteries

At 08:45 PM 9/3/2019, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Bob,



 I like the concept of having the brown-out booster incorporated into the core diagram.



 I think that you have stuff on the endurance bus that would be hard for the brownout booster to run, In particular, the transponder and the comm radio. My dual 10-inch screen EFIS consumes 2.8 amps typical, 6.25 amps max. The Trig mode S transponder is rated at 3 amps typical and 3 amps max. The comm radio is 0.5 amps typical, 3 amps max.



 So I would be happy with a brownout booster that could handle just the EFIS at 2.8 amps, maybe 6 amps. As your diagram is drawn, were I planning my electrical system I would think that I needed a brownout booster that could supply 12.25 amps. That's a big difference.



 I think it would be cool to lose the endurance bus and add a light that comes on when a) the airplane is running on the backup alternator, and b) the battery is discharging. The light could say something like "DON'T PANIC BUT IT'S TIME TO SHED SOME LOAD."



 Then add a brownout booster bus that has only the equipment on it that needs to operate correctly during engine start, i.e., the engine instruments.

 	


   Boost converters are available for

   just about any size . . . but keep

   in mind that the 'boost' is necessary

   for a few hundred milliseconds and

   real loads are the standby values

   for transceivers . . . not the max.



   "Boosting" the e-bus to carry what ever

   your static endurance loads may be is

   entirely practical.



   The 'trick' is all in the timing. Boost

   has to initiate before the starter

   contactor closes and needs to sustain

   past (1) rise in battery voltage due

   to expiration of inrush current or (2)

   contactor opening, which ever happens

   first. I'm fiddling with some ways to

   get that to happen.



 



 

   Bob . . .

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:20 am Post subject: Speaking of Aux Batteries

At 08:45 PM 9/3/2019, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Bob,



 I like the concept of having the brown-out booster incorporated into the core diagram.



 I think that you have stuff on the endurance bus that would be hard for the brownout booster to run, In particular, the transponder and the comm radio. My dual 10-inch screen EFIS consumes 2.8 amps typical, 6.25 amps max. The Trig mode S transponder is rated at 3 amps typical and 3 amps max. The comm radio is 0.5 amps typical, 3 amps max.



 So I would be happy with a brownout booster that could handle just the EFIS at 2.8 amps, maybe 6 amps. As your diagram is drawn, were I planning my electrical system I would think that I needed a brownout booster that could supply 12.25 amps. That's a big difference.



 I think it would be cool to lose the endurance bus and add a light that comes on when a) the airplane is running on the backup alternator, and b) the battery is discharging. The light could say something like "DON'T PANIC BUT IT'S TIME TO SHED SOME LOAD."



 Then add a brownout booster bus that has only the equipment on it that needs to operate correctly during engine start, i.e., the engine instruments.

 	


   Boost converters are available for

   just about any size . . . but keep

   in mind that the 'boost' is necessary

   for a few hundred milliseconds and

   real loads are the standby values

   for transceivers . . . not the max.



   "Boosting" the e-bus to carry what ever

   your static endurance loads may be is

   entirely practical.



   The 'trick' is all in the timing. Boost

   has to initiate before the starter

   contactor closes and needs to sustain

   past (1) rise in battery voltage due

   to expiration of inrush current or (2)

   contactor opening, which ever happens

   first. I'm fiddling with some ways to

   get that to happen.



 



 

   Bob . . .

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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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