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billhuntersemail(at)gmail
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 Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:45 pm Post subject: Lead Acid Batteries |
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Hi All,
I hope everyone is doing well.
I have a couple of questions about lead acid batteries…
First is the old tale that if you store a lead acid battery on the concrete floor it will discharge so keep it on a work bench or on wood blocks…is that actually true or have I just been “snipe hunting” all of these years (decades)?
Second question is about allowing a lead acid battery to discharge all the way down to zero…or if it had gotten severely discharged a few times…it will no longer be serviceable. Is this accurate? If so why would a good battery become junk just because you “left the lights on” and drained it down to zero?
Third question is what is the difference between a “car battery” and a “marine battery/ deep cycle battery”?
Thanks everyone!!!
Bill
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Voyager
Joined: 30 Jun 2020
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:29 pm Post subject: Lead Acid Batteries |
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Yes, the sitting on concrete is an old wives tale.
Allowing a lead acid battery to completely discharge will definitely shorten its life as more lead sulphate will form than can be reversed when the battery is charged. And if it is cold out, it will freeze which will really shorten its life quickly as the case will often split and let the acid (well mostly water once fully discharged) leak out once it thaws.
Matt
Sent from my iPad
| Quote: | On Oct 29, 2020, at 8:54 PM, billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com wrote:
<![endif]--> <![endif]-->
Hi All,
I hope everyone is doing well.
I have a couple of questions about lead acid batteries…
First is the old tale that if you store a lead acid battery on the concrete floor it will discharge so keep it on a work bench or on wood blocks…is that actually true or have I just been “snipe hunting” all of these years (decades)?
Second question is about allowing a lead acid battery to discharge all the way down to zero…or if it had gotten severely discharged a few times…it will no longer be serviceable. Is this accurate? If so why would a good battery become junk just because you “left the lights on” and drained it down to zero?
Third question is what is the difference between a “car battery” and a “marine battery/ deep cycle battery”?
Thanks everyone!!!
Bill
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:40 pm Post subject: Lead Acid Batteries |
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It was true when old wives were young, and battery cases were made of
hard rubber. Once the switch was made to polypropylene or equivalent, it
was no longer true. Battery's freeze point is dependent on state of
charge. Discharged it can be close to freezing, but if fully charged it
is somewhere near -70F. When I had plane in those temps, I made sure
battery was removed before reaching -40.
On 10/29/2020 6:19 PM, Matthew S. Whiting wrote:
| Quote: | Yes, the sitting on concrete is an old wives tale.
Allowing a lead acid battery to completely discharge will definitely
shorten its life as more lead sulphate will form than can be reversed
when the battery is charged. And if it is cold out, it will freeze
which will really shorten its life quickly as the case will often split
and let the acid (well mostly water once fully discharged) leak out once
it thaws.
Matt
Sent from my iPad
> On Oct 29, 2020, at 8:54 PM, billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> I hope everyone is doing well.
>
> I have a couple of questions about lead acid batteries…
>
> First is the old tale that if you store a lead acid battery on the
> concrete floor it will discharge so keep it on a work bench or on wood
> blocks…is that actually true or have I just been “snipe hunting” all
> of these years (decades)?
>
> Second question is about allowing a lead acid battery to discharge all
> the way down to zero…or if it had gotten severely discharged a few
> times…it will no longer be serviceable. Is this accurate? If so why
> would a good battery become junk just because you “left the lights on”
> and drained it down to zero?
>
> Third question is what is the difference between a “car battery” and a
> “marine battery/ deep cycle battery”?
>
> Thanks everyone!!!
>
> Bill
>
|
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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
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Ceengland
Joined: 11 Oct 2020
Posts: 393
Location: MS
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:03 pm Post subject: Lead Acid Batteries |
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On 10/29/2020 8:19 PM, Matthew S. Whiting wrote:
| Quote: | Yes, the sitting on concrete is an old wives tale.
Allowing a lead acid battery to completely discharge will definitely shorten its life as more lead sulphate will form than can be reversed when the battery is charged. And if it is cold out, it will freeze which will really shorten its life quickly as the case will often split and let the acid (well mostly water once fully discharged) leak out once it thaws.
Matt
Sent from my iPad
| Quote: | On Oct 29, 2020, at 8:54 PM, billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com (billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com) wrote:
<![endif]--> <![endif]-->
Hi All,
I hope everyone is doing well.
I have a couple of questions about lead acid batteries…
First is the old tale that if you store a lead acid battery on the concrete floor it will discharge so keep it on a work bench or on wood blocks…is that actually true or have I just been “snipe hunting” all of these years (decades)?
Second question is about allowing a lead acid battery to discharge all the way down to zero…or if it had gotten severely discharged a few times…it will no longer be serviceable. Is this accurate? If so why would a good battery become junk just because you “left the lights on” and drained it down to zero?
Third question is what is the difference between a “car battery” and a “marine battery/ deep cycle battery”?
Thanks everyone!!!
Bill
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To the last question: deep cycle have thicker plates, allowing deeper discharge without damaging the cells. Lots of docs available; just google 'starting battery vs deep cycle'.
Charlie
 Virus-free. www.avast.com [url=#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2] [/url]
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Charlie |
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Voyager
Joined: 30 Jun 2020
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:04 pm Post subject: Lead Acid Batteries |
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I don’t think any wives alive today were also around when batteries were last made with hard rubber cases that contained carbon and were slightly porous.
Yes, a fully charged battery is good to somewhere around -80 F, but a fully discharged battery will freeze around 20 F. I always keep mine inside in the winter or on a battery maintainer. And inside is best if you may need to install the battery and use it as it will crank much better while warm than when sitting outside at -40.
Sent from my iPad
| Quote: | On Oct 29, 2020, at 10:48 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> wrote:
It was true when old wives were young, and battery cases were made of hard rubber. Once the switch was made to polypropylene or equivalent, it was no longer true. Battery's freeze point is dependent on state of charge. Discharged it can be close to freezing, but if fully charged it is somewhere near -70F. When I had plane in those temps, I made sure battery was removed before reaching -40.
> On 10/29/2020 6:19 PM, Matthew S. Whiting wrote:
> Yes, the sitting on concrete is an old wives tale.
> Allowing a lead acid battery to completely discharge will definitely shorten its life as more lead sulphate will form than can be reversed when the battery is charged. And if it is cold out, it will freeze which will really shorten its life quickly as the case will often split and let the acid (well mostly water once fully discharged) leak out once it thaws.
> Matt
> Sent from my iPad
>>> On Oct 29, 2020, at 8:54 PM, billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I hope everyone is doing well.
>>
>> I have a couple of questions about lead acid batteries…
>>
>> First is the old tale that if you store a lead acid battery on the concrete floor it will discharge so keep it on a work bench or on wood blocks…is that actually true or have I just been “snipe hunting” all of these years (decades)?
>>
>> Second question is about allowing a lead acid battery to discharge all the way down to zero…or if it had gotten severely discharged a few times…it will no longer be serviceable. Is this accurate? If so why would a good battery become junk just because you “left the lights on” and drained it down to zero?
>>
>> Third question is what is the difference between a “car battery” and a “marine battery/ deep cycle battery”?
>>
>> Thanks everyone!!!
>>
>> Bill
>>
|
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:23 pm Post subject: Lead Acid Batteries |
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Hmmm, my wife is older than I am(and a pilot), and I worked on hard
rubber case batteries in both aircraft and autos. In fact battery
recycling shops were common that melted the lead after cleaning of old
acid, made new plates, and installed in the rubber cases. Of course many
are now super fund sites. IIRC the Diehard series was one of the first
polyethylene or propylene, back in the late 60's.
Having an aircraft on open ramp in Fairbanks in the 70s, with no power
at tiedowns, had to pull battery, take home and occasionally charge.
Kelly
On 10/29/2020 8:00 PM, Matthew S. Whiting wrote:
| Quote: |
I don’t think any wives alive today were also around when batteries were last made with hard rubber cases that contained carbon and were slightly porous.
Yes, a fully charged battery is good to somewhere around -80 F, but a fully discharged battery will freeze around 20 F. I always keep mine inside in the winter or on a battery maintainer. And inside is best if you may need to install the battery and use it as it will crank much better while warm than when sitting outside at -40.
Sent from my iPad
> On Oct 29, 2020, at 10:48 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> It was true when old wives were young, and battery cases were made of hard rubber. Once the switch was made to polypropylene or equivalent, it was no longer true. Battery's freeze point is dependent on state of charge. Discharged it can be close to freezing, but if fully charged it is somewhere near -70F. When I had plane in those temps, I made sure battery was removed before reaching -40.
>
>> On 10/29/2020 6:19 PM, Matthew S. Whiting wrote:
>> Yes, the sitting on concrete is an old wives tale.
>> Allowing a lead acid battery to completely discharge will definitely shorten its life as more lead sulphate will form than can be reversed when the battery is charged. And if it is cold out, it will freeze which will really shorten its life quickly as the case will often split and let the acid (well mostly water once fully discharged) leak out once it thaws.
>> Matt
>> Sent from my iPad
>>>> On Oct 29, 2020, at 8:54 PM, billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> I hope everyone is doing well.
>>>
>>> I have a couple of questions about lead acid batteries…
>>>
>>> First is the old tale that if you store a lead acid battery on the concrete floor it will discharge so keep it on a work bench or on wood blocks…is that actually true or have I just been “snipe hunting” all of these years (decades)?
>>>
>>> Second question is about allowing a lead acid battery to discharge all the way down to zero…or if it had gotten severely discharged a few times…it will no longer be serviceable. Is this accurate? If so why would a good battery become junk just because you “left the lights on” and drained it down to zero?
>>>
>>> Third question is what is the difference between a “car battery” and a “marine battery/ deep cycle battery”?
>>>
>>> Thanks everyone!!!
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>
|
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
|
_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD |
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skywagon185(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:50 am Post subject: Lead Acid Batteries |
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Bill,Maybe you already do this....
Put a small "Battery Maintainer" (like a schumacher) on the battery and set it for 13.2 to 13.4 v, and leave it.
All should be good....
Virus-free. www.avast.com [url=#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2][/url]
On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 5:37 PM <billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com (billhuntersemail(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Hi All,
I hope everyone is doing well.
I have a couple of questions about lead acid batteries…
First is the old tale that if you store a lead acid battery on the concrete floor it will discharge so keep it on a work bench or on wood blocks…is that actually true or have I just been “snipe hunting” all of these years (decades)?
Second question is about allowing a lead acid battery to discharge all the way down to zero…or if it had gotten severely discharged a few times…it will no longer be serviceable. Is this accurate? If so why would a good battery become junk just because you “left the lights on” and drained it down to zero?
Third question is what is the difference between a “car battery” and a “marine battery/ deep cycle battery”?
Thanks everyone!!!
Bill
|
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
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billhuntersemail(at)gmail
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:46 am Post subject: Lead Acid Batteries |
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Thanks for the information on lead acid batteries...it seems that the Sears Die Hard battery was never affected by cold temperatures (commercials never lie):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0SSLnwVRwA
--
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:47 am Post subject: Lead Acid Batteries |
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| Quote: |
Second question is about allowing a lead acid battery to discharge all the way down to zeroor if it had gotten severely discharged a few timmesit will no longer be serviceable. Is this accurate? If so why would a good battery become junk just because you “left the lights on” and drained it down to zero? |
It's not a 'sudden death' phenomenon. In fact, to achieve
TSO qualification on aircraft batteries, one of the tests
is to completely discharge the battery, place a dead short
on it for a period of time (don't recall the interval off
top of my head) and the conduct a 'recovery charging protocol'.
But leaving a lead-acid battery in a discharged state
accelerates corrosion of the positive plate which
ultimately trashes the battery.
| Quote: | Third question is what is the difference between a “car battery” and a “marine battery/ deep cycle battery”?
|
Here's an excellent article that speaks to that
topic . . . among others.
https://tinyurl.com/y69ltgh6
By the way, there's a constellation of excellent
articles on the characteristics and maintenance
of various battery chemistries on this website:
https://tinyurl.com/yalty6y7
Bob . . .
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