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G-GIWT air tests

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alan.twigg775(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:18 am Post subject: G-GIWT air tests

A problem on my early flights, when I transmit, trim indicator goes dim and eventually trim does not work if radio used a lot.

Radio savvy friend told me to isolate radio antenna by substituting my handheld Arial, this worked but only to prove I and an antenna/ trim issue. My radio man has given me two ferrite sleeves to fit around the trim indicator cables which he suspects are the issue; but he recommended that I ask the Europa community who have no doubt seen this issue.

I have carefully routed trim cables on port side of fuselage and antenna on Stbd.

I await the Miriad of expert experience guys.

Thanks

Alan Twigg

Europa Motorglider

Kit 463 



Sent from my iPad

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paul.the.aviator(at)gmail
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:19 am Post subject: G-GIWT air tests

I haven't seen this issue but I did have an issue with my glass panels and I successfully used  ferrite beads to resolve my problem. If possible loop the wires through the bead a couple of times.

On Wed, Jun 9, 2021 at 11:21 AM Alan Twigg <alan.twigg775(at)gmail.com (alan.twigg775(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: Alan Twigg <alan.twigg775(at)gmail.com (alan.twigg775(at)gmail.com)>

 

 A problem on my early flights, when I transmit, trim indicator goes dim and eventually trim does not work if radio used a lot.

 Radio savvy friend told me to isolate radio antenna by substituting my handheld Arial, this worked but only to prove I and an antenna/ trim issue. My radio man has given me two ferrite sleeves to fit around the trim indicator cables which he suspects are the issue; but he recommended that I ask the Europa community who have no doubt seen this issue.

 I have carefully routed trim cables on port side of fuselage and antenna on Stbd.

 I await the Miriad of expert experience guys.

 Thanks

 Alan Twigg

 Europa Motorglider

 Kit 463 

 

 Sent from my iPad

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n7188u

Joined: 15 Nov 2015
Posts: 404

Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:27 am Post subject: Re: G-GIWT air tests

Alan,



My trim indicator also goes berserk when I press the PTT. Per Becker recommendation I moved the radio's power feed away from the avionics power bus and connected it directly to the battery bus, with its own inline fuse.



This did nothing to fix the trim issue but was done mostly to reduce noise that was being injected by my Garmin 496 mounted in the panel (this thing is incredibly noisy) than to fix the trim indicator issue. BTW, my effort was placed mostly on having a dead quiet electrical system (from an audio standpoint) and I was extremely successful in doing this. The only thing I can hear in the air is the processor in my tablet doing a little work once in a while 



Back to the trim issue, I just ignore it. When I am flying I don't even realize this happens as I'm generally not looking at the trim indicator when I press the PTT. If you must fix it seems that ferrites could be a good idea unless some different grounding strategy could be implemented for the trim indicator.



I have never seem my indicator completely fail because of this. 



BTW, on a somewhat related note, while trying to figure how to install an ELT antenna that works in my plane I bought this thingy from Amazon (US):



https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Y53RCKW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1



It's amazing that now you can buy a Network Analyzer and really see if your antenna is good for a fraction of what a real unit used to cost. It does work! You could use it to make sure your antenna is not reflecting too much power back and making your trim indicator go kaput.



Best,

Chris

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h&jeuropa

Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 649

Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:26 am Post subject: Re: G-GIWT air tests

Alan,

The trim motor is located very close to the comm antenna if your antenna is located in the rudder flange per the manual.  If the comm antenna is not well tuned, there may be excessive radiation from it that interferes with the trim motor.  I'd suggest you check the standing wave ratio (SWR) of the comm antenna at different frequencies.  



You might try wrapping the trim motor in conductive foil (aluminum foil) to see if shielding it solves the problem.  



Ferrite sleeves often do not solve the problem as they are not universal and the ones that are readily available are not correct for our VHF frequencies.   I tried a lot of ferrite sleeves when I had my Blue Mountain EFIS trying to solve problems with very little success.



Jim

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alan.twigg775(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:02 am Post subject: G-GIWT air tests

Thanks Jim, I put an antenna  behind the cockpit in the roof, the ferrite sleeve seems to have fixed the problem, tommorrow I will fly to prove it.

Alan 



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On 12 Jun 2021, at 15:29, h&amp;jeuropa <butcher43(at)att.net> wrote:

 

 

 

 Alan,

 The trim motor is located very close to the comm antenna if your antenna is located in the rudder flange per the manual.  If the comm antenna is not well tuned, there may be excessive radiation from it that interferes with the trim motor.  I'd suggest you check the standing wave ratio (SWR) of the comm antenna at different frequencies.  

 

 You might try wrapping the trim motor in conductive foil (aluminum foil) to see if shielding it solves the problem.  

 

 Ferrite sleeves often do not solve the problem as they are not universal and the ones that are readily available are not correct for our VHF frequencies.   I tried a lot of ferrite sleeves when I had my Blue Mountain EFIS trying to solve problems with very little success.

 

 Jim

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502344#502344

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budyerly@msn.com

Joined: 05 Oct 2019
Posts: 291
Location: Florida USA

Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:59 pm Post subject: G-GIWT air tests

Alan,

I recently installed a new Garmin 200 into my panel and I ran my coax across my FP-5 fuel flow and on certain frequencies 134 and up the FP-5 was a light show and finally went blank.    If your trim indicator is in the panel, rerouting the com may help, shielding the trim indicator, if nearby the radio may be an area to look at if the coil doesn't work.



Finally, if you run your com coax on the same side as the 5 wire trim bundle, that has caused problems before.



As Jim said, ferrites can work but there may still be certain frequencies that interfere.  A Faraday box does work.  You don't need Mu metal as there isn't a lot of magnetic flux in the coax.  That said, I have one of the old style needle type Mac trim indicators and it can be fluctuated by high current ops or the nearby new Garmin Com radio to my surprise.



Keep plugging away.



Bud Yerly

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sldpileit(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:38 am Post subject: G-GIWT air tests

Please remove me from all lists thank you sldpileit(at)aol.com

 

   

 

   

 

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