Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - Rotax crankcase cracks

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Rotax crankcase cracks

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Europa-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

willie.harrison(at)tinyon
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 3:13 pm Post subject: Rotax crankcase cracks

Am I alone in being aghast by the way Rotax/Skydrive communicate the problem

with crancase cracks? I had a bmw car once which was recalled by the dealer

because of potential cracks in the steering column - bmw regarded it as their

responsibility to fix it urgently at their own cost. By contrast, Rotax are

saying in effect, "our product has a potential fault which may kill you so

you'd better look out. Don't say we haven't warned you." Charming or what?



Willie Harrison 

G-BZNY (shining after its twice yearly wash)



___________________________________________________________



Tiscali Broadband from 14.99 with free setup!

http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/

- The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

graham(at)pocock56.fsnet.
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 3:05 am Post subject: Rotax crankcase cracks

As a regular reader of the list am I alone in thinking that the Rotax 

engines 912,  912S (and 914 which I am not considering for my aircraft) are 

beginning to show up an lot of problems?



Cooling, Evans coolant or not.

The Ducati regulator.  Italian electrics are grim IMHO when fitted to bikes 

,cars, tractors and it seems aircraft too.

Sprag clutch or Starter motor.

Carb balancing setup.

Throttle cables, are bowden cables best?

Crancase cracks!!!

Carb mounting rubbers splits

Exhaust fractures

Hot starting,- fuel cooling required.



I know that a few problems are peculiar to the Europa fit, and that many 

engines have been sold so providing a wider reference base  and I am hoping 

that not everyone has all the faults, but they are all potentially there it 

seems. Lets say would you keep your car very long with this engine?



Now I hav'nt made my engine choice yet but it will probably be the 912S 

because the aircraft was designed with this fit,  and its quietly 

economical, factory support, etc...



It would be interesting to hear if anyone is really disappointed with the 

Rotax or if the concensus is to live with a well known devil.



I am aware of the other engine choices but I am sure I will benefit from the 

factory manual if I chose the Rotax.



Graham Pocock

535  XS Tri Gear

---

- The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

topglock(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 7:18 am Post subject: Rotax crankcase cracks

Graham,



With 200 hours on my 912S, I've had zero engine problems.  It starts 

every time and delivers a fuel burn of just under 4.5 gph at 5000 rpm 

and 27.5 map.  Hopefully I'll not experience any of the reported 

gremlins reported by others, because I'm extremely satisfied with my 

setup...



Jeff - Baby Blue

200 hours and one year in flight, as of today...

Time for her first annual...



Graham wrote:



[quote] 



 As a regular reader of the list am I alone in thinking that the Rotax 

 engines 912,  912S (and 914 which I am not considering for my 

 aircraft) are beginning to show up an lot of problems?



 Cooling, Evans coolant or not.

 The Ducati regulator.  Italian electrics are grim IMHO when fitted to 

 bikes ,cars, tractors and it seems aircraft too.

 Sprag clutch or Starter motor.

 Carb balancing setup.

 Throttle cables, are bowden cables best?

 Crancase cracks!!!

 Carb mounting rubbers splits

 Exhaust fractures

 Hot starting,- fuel cooling required.



 I know that a few problems are peculiar to the Europa fit, and that 

 many engines have been sold so providing a wider reference base  and I 

 am hoping that not everyone has all the faults, but they are all 

 potentially there it seems. Lets say would you keep your car very long 

 with this engine?



 Now I hav'nt made my engine choice yet but it will probably be the 

 912S because the aircraft was designed with this fit,  and its quietly 

 economical, factory support, etc...



 It would be interesting to hear if anyone is really disappointed with 

 the Rotax or if the concensus is to live with a well known devil.



 I am aware of the other engine choices but I am sure I will benefit 

 from the factory manual if I chose the Rotax.



 Graham Pocock

 535  XS Tri Gear

 ---

- The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

nwcmc(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 11:17 am Post subject: Rotax crankcase cracks

Most of these concerns are related to less than optimal set up by the

user and are not the direct fault of Rotax. I would make the following

comments about each topic raised.



 	  Quote: 	
		  Cooling, Evans coolant or not.<


	


Provided adequate airflow is available through the radiators, the

standard 50% water/glycol mix is fine. For the Europa application in

very hot climates improved airflow can be achieved using a lowering

inlet chin flap. This can also be raised to reduce flow in winter to

prevent overcooling.



 	  Quote: 	
		  The Ducati regulator.  Italian electrics are grim IMHO when fitted to

bikes 
	


,cars, tractors and it seems aircraft too.<



Whilst the Ducati regulator is not the most robust unit recent

discussion on the forum suggests that reliability is much improved if

the mean current load is less than 12A. Also improved cooling using

ducting is likely to improve reliability as well. Some failures are

caused by inadequate grounding of the regulator case.



 	  Quote: 	
		  Sprag clutch or Starter motor.<


	


This has mainly been a problem associated with the 912S. The sprag

clutch wear was caused by kickbacks, which in turn was caused by the

higher compression of the 912S. A combination of using the higher power

starter and making sure the ignition timing is not too advanced seems to

have addressed the problem.



 	  Quote: 	
		  Carb balancing setup.<


	


Any twin carb setup will need setting up correctly. Most Rotax users

manage to find a setting which achieves adequate balance.



 	  Quote: 	
		  Throttle cables, are bowden cables best?<


	


Bowden cables give flexibility for various installations. There have

been a few problems where they have not been routed as smoothly as

necessary. Perhaps more exacting guidance of routing would help some

builders but avoiding tight curves usually gives good results.



 	  Quote: 	
		  Crancase cracks!!!<


	


This has only just come to our attention. How much of a problem this is

as a percentage of all Rotax engines has yet to be seen. However the

fact that so many engine hours have been achieved before this has come

up infers it is likely only to affect a few engines. In any event it is

unlikely to be a problem with future engines as I am sure Rotax will

modify new castings accordingly.



 	  Quote: 	
		  Carb mounting rubbers splits<


	


Any rubber parts are going to have a life and these are normally changed

as a service item at the 5 year point. The combination of high under

cowl temperatures and vibration means that this has to be considered an

acceptable requirement.



 	  Quote: 	
		  Exhaust fractures<


	


This has come up a few times with certain batches of exhausts. Whilst

unsatisfactory this is not a problem which can be blamed on Rotax. The

exhaust manufacturer is employed by Europa and lessons have been learnt.

Part of the problem was associated with the fact that at least 3

different exhaust manufacturers had been used in the early days and

different exhausts used by the Classic and the XS. I am not aware of any

new problems that have not been fully sorted out.



 	  Quote: 	
		  Hot starting,- fuel cooling required.<


	


This is one area which is made worse by the design of the Rotax. The

combination of miserly fuel flows and the fuel hose traversing the

length of the engine twice before reaching the carbs means that the fuel

gets heated within the engine compartment. This was the reason for the

bleedback pipe. Hot starts are a common problem with all closely cowled

engines. After shutdown the lack of airflow and fuel flow means the fuel

temperature easily exceeds 40degC within 10 minutes. Leaving the

inspection hatches open on short turnarounds helps but don't forget to

shut them again. I use the 914 NACA duct on the lower cowl for my 912S

to cool the fuel piping in the engine compartment using 50mm hose. As

this keeps the fuel temperature around ambient with the engine running I

have no problems with hot starts even without the bleedback pipe.



Nigel Charles

- The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

carl(at)flyers.freeserve.
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:21 pm Post subject: Rotax crankcase cracks

Rotax engines may not be perfect but there isnt anything better IMHO.  Mine 

still runs faultlessly after over 600hrs and I have had no problems that 

could be laid at the manufacturers door. If you had been involved with 

Europas from the beginning you would realise that others have tried "better" 

engines in their aircraft to their cost. All things considered Rotax 912s 

and 914's are very reliable powerplants.



There is nothing wrong with Rotax's attitude towards the engine crack 

warning. The likely hood is that only one or two engines have developed this 

problem and as Rotax suggests this may be down to how the engine was 

installed/ operated.  If it was a car manufacturer they would probably not 

say anything and simply fix the problem if it materialised (and probably 

charge you for the priveledge).



Rotax are simply doing what any sensible aviation engine manufacturer would 

do and draw your attention to a potential problem that if it occurrs is 

probably your fault - because of the way you may have installed or operated 

the engine. Rotax have no control over how their engines are used - they can 

only make reccommendations on how to fit them which may or may not be 

adhered to by the aircraft manufacturer (which in your case is you).



If yours was a certified aircraft and a problem developed you would seek 

redress/ compensation from the aircraft manufacturer - because they fitted 

the engine to their aircraft - exactly in the same way as you would if your 

BMW developed a fault the only difference being that BMW makes their own 

engines.



The reason the factory sticks with the 912s and 914s is because they are 

generally reliable unlike the other engines they have tried eg: Subaru, Mid 

West Rotary, Wilksch Diesel, BMW boxer, etc. The only other engine that is 

halfway decent in the Europa is the Jabiru and that hasnt been without its 

problems.



In my opinion if you fitted any other engine the list of Rotax snags you 

quote would be minimal by comparison to what you would probably experience 

with another manufacturer.



Carl Pattinson

G-LABS



---

- The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

graham(at)pocock56.fsnet.
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:08 am Post subject: Rotax crankcase cracks

Thanks to all who replied to my question. Interesting and reassuring.

I really should have started a new thread with this subject. Sorry.

Graham

Do not archive.

---

- The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

n9zes(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:39 am Post subject: Rotax crankcase cracks

=====================






Thanks to all who replied to my question. Interesting and reassuring.

I really should have started a new thread with this subject. Sorry.

Graham



---> I've been thinking about this issue a bit.  If you really sit and think about it, the Rotax engines, aside from a few minor common issues (rubber parts, regulator, etc.) are really remarkably robust and reliable.  The 912S starting problem has largely been resolved.



On the flip side, recall back through history all the major problems both Lycoming and Continental have had with various engines through the years?  Lyc. O-320H2AD anyone?  Continental O-200 (or any small Continental) that have a hard time going 500 hrs. between top overhauls?  Lycoming camshaft spalling problems across the product line?  Big bore Continentals with head cracking issues?



How many Europas (or other Rotax powered A/C) have had to make off-field landings due to engine failure?  The consensus I've heard is that if you can get the Rotax running, it will get you to your destination almost no matter what.



Chris

A159

- The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Europa-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum