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Firewall rivets

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dj45

Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 92
Location: Jackson MI

Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:18 pm Post subject: Firewall rivets

I'm working on an 801 and can't figure out if all rivets on the firewall are AS5 or just part of them. An update says "change A5 to AS5" but there aren't enough to do the whole firewall. and what I do have (50) go in other places

I don't have a problem with running down to Fastenall and getting more SS rivets, I would just like to know what is the correct way to do this.

dj45

Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 92
Location: Jackson MI

Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:21 pm Post subject: Re: Firewall rivets

Sorry for the duplicat question. I didn't know the first one went thru.

NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:28 pm Post subject: Firewall rivets

I would call Zenith to be sure. The DeltaHawk produces how many HP?

  

  

  

 In a message dated 7/27/2006 8:21:55 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  dj45(at)modempool.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I'm    working on an 801 and can't figure out if all rivets on the firewall are AS5    or just part of them. An update says "change A5 to AS5" but there aren't    enough to do the whole firewall. and what I do have (50) go in other    places

I don't have a problem with running down to Fastenall and getting    more SS rivets, I would just like to know what is the correct way to do    this.

p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:41 pm Post subject: Firewall rivets

I would suggest using only stainless rivets on the firewall of any 

airplane.  Aluminum rivets will melt quickly in an engine compartment 

fire while the stainless rivets will withstand any temperature you 

are likely to get.  The stainless rivets are also quite a bit 

stronger than similar sized aluminum rivets since they are steel.



I guess a good rule of thumb is if the firewall is steel then you 

should use steel hardware and parts on it.



Good luck,



Paul

XL fuselage



At 05:18 PM 7/27/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



I'm working on an 801 and can't figure out if all rivets on the 

firewall are AS5 or just part of them. An update says "change A5 to 

AS5" but there aren't enough to do the whole firewall. and what I do 

have (50) go in other places

I don't have a problem with running down to Fastenall and getting 

more SS rivets, I would just like to know what is the correct way to do this.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=50219#50219




	


---------------------------------------------

Paul Mulwitz

32013 NE Dial Road

Camas, WA 98607

---------------------------------------------

dj45

Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 92
Location: Jackson MI

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:29 am Post subject: Re: Firewall rivets

It puts out 180 hp. They have a rather informative web site. I have spent a lot of time on this choice. I belive it is the way to go for what we want to use the plane for

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:37 am Post subject: Firewall rivets

If your fire wall is stainless steel then any rivets, nuts or washers

attached to it should also be stainless to reduce the occurrence of

dissimilar metal corrosion.



I agree with Paul.... Get the stainless rivets.



Noel



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 I would suggest using only stainless rivets on the firewall of any 

 airplane.  Aluminum rivets will melt quickly in an engine compartment 

 fire while the stainless rivets will withstand any temperature you 

 are likely to get.  The stainless rivets are also quite a bit 

 stronger than similar sized aluminum rivets since they are steel.

 

 I guess a good rule of thumb is if the firewall is steel then you 

 should use steel hardware and parts on it.

 

 Good luck,

 

 Paul

 XL fuselage

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:49 am Post subject: Firewall rivets

The Firewall rivets put out  180 hp?  DJ45  I will sure want one of those rivets for my next project       

Do not Archive  !!!!!



Saludos

Gary Gower. 



dj45 <dj45(at)modempool.com> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		   --> Zenith-List message posted by: "dj45" 



It puts out 180 hp. They have a rather informative web site. I have spent a lot of time on this choice. I belive it is the way to go for what we want to use the plane for

pacificpainting(at)comcas
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:15 pm Post subject: Firewall rivets

What's the story on the Delta Hawk diesel? I looked  on their website to find a price. Anyone know how much it is?

  

 Dave in Salem

 801 without an engine yet, but not ready  anyway.

  

  

 [quote]   ---

dj45

Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 92
Location: Jackson MI

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:06 pm Post subject: Re: Firewall rivets

Thanks for the input. I ordered SS rivets today. Makes sense to me, if I had just stoped to think about it.

As for the other post, I would be more than happy to give you the extra rivets if you need the extra HP :>)

VideoFlyer(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:35 pm Post subject: Firewall rivets

<<<<<If your fire wall is stainless steel then any rivets, nuts or washers

attached to it should also be stainless to reduce the occurrence of

dissimilar metal corrosion.>>>

  

 The firewall is steel...either galvanized or stainless.  But the "L" braces and the channels are aluminum.  Aren't those dissimilar metals?  What's the difference between aluminum rivets in stainless steel...and stainless rivets in aluminum?

  

 Dave

ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:41 pm Post subject: Firewall rivets

There has been some posts about this "discimilar metals"  danger of corrosion... It beguin when I told the list about the SS firewall we built for my 701...



I cant remember what the final results of this tread were... Probably the plane will fall apart because of corrosion in 250 years      



Just in case, to be on the safe side,  I put some Zinc Chromate in a little cup and  wetted each  rivet in the firewall before installing and pulling, also double checked that we  painted the touching parts with plenty ZC, 



Hope it holds the next  25 plus years I think I will be able to continue flying...  



Saludos

Gary Gower

Flying from Chapala, Mexico.

701 912S  

601 XL in progress...

VideoFlyer(at)aol.com wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		      <<<<<If your fire wall is stainless steel then any rivets, nuts or washers

attached to it should also be stainless to reduce the occurrence of

dissimilar metal corrosion.>>>

  

 The firewall is steel...either galvanized or stainless.  But the "L" braces and the channels are aluminum.  Aren't those dissimilar metals?  What's the difference between aluminum rivets in stainless steel...and stainless rivets in aluminum?

  

 Dave

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 5:00 am Post subject: Firewall rivets

250 yr???  Probably  depends on how much humidity the plane has to endure.  Dissimilar metals  will live together in the absence of water/humidity.  Electrolytic salts  will also speed up the process.

  

 If you have to use dissimilar  rivets etc. then the idea of using zinc chromate and/or sealant around the  rivets as they are being pulled is a good one.

  

  

 

Noel [quote]   

   --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 6:48 am Post subject: Firewall rivets

I believe the accepted procedure is to prime the contacting surfaces,  particularly with dissimilar metals (which includes different alloys of the same  basic metal). If that is an accepted practice as is dipping rivets in Zinc Oxide  or Zinc Cromate primer at the time of insertion, then I'd guess the issue was  adequately covered.

  

 Anyone have other or additional ideas or hints?

  

 Ed Moody II

 Rayne, LA

 601XL / 2nd wing

  	  Quote: 	
		     The firewall is steel...either galvanized or stainless.  But the "L"    braces and the channels are aluminum.  Aren't those dissimilar    metals?  What's the difference between aluminum rivets in stainless    steel...and stainless rivets in aluminum?

    

   Dave

zman601xl(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:58 pm Post subject: Firewall rivets

I believe the accepted procedure is to prime the contacting surfaces, particularly with dissimilar metals (which includes different alloys of the same basic metal). If that is an accepted practice as is dipping rivets in Zinc Oxide or Zinc Cromate primer at the time of insertion, then I'd guess the issue was adequately covered. Anyone have other or additional ideas or hints? Ed Moody IIRayne, LA601XL / 2nd wing  The firewall is steel...either galvanized or stainless.  But the "L"  braces and the channels are aluminum.  Aren't those dissimilar   metals?  What's the difference between aluminum rivets in stainless   steel...and stainless rivets in aluminum?     Dave

Dave:

You have some good questions.I'm working on my firewall now.I've been wondering about the rivets we use on the firewall.The firewall is fire resistant galvanized,but the rivets securing the various braces are alum.Won't they melt if you have a fire?Also,are the rivet heads on the firewall side?Zenith says(generally)that the rivet head should go on the thinner side.A couple of the "l" angles on the back are thinner than the firewall.Hopefully we will get  guidance from some of the guys that have already been down this road.

Bob Haring(Zman601xl)

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:43 pm Post subject: Firewall rivets

Dave,

I used aluminum rivets in a stainless firewall with aluminum skin and 

longerons because it's sound.  The temps that would melt the rivets 

would otherwise melt

the airframe as quickly.  The surfaces were zinc chromated, but if I 

were to put corroding parts together, I'd rather not see it on the 

outside of my skins.

With a header tank, its likely the heat would be greater inside anyway, 

eh?  Strength wise, the aluminum rivets have done the job well for my 

601. 



Larry McFarland at www.macsmachine.com

zman601xl(at)verizon.net wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

I believe the accepted procedure is to prime the contacting surfaces, particularly with dissimilar metals (which includes different alloys of the same basic metal). If that is an accepted practice as is dipping rivets in Zinc Oxide or Zinc Cromate primer at the time of insertion, then I'd guess the issue was adequately covered. Anyone have other or additional ideas or hints? Ed Moody IIRayne, LA601XL / 2nd wing  The firewall is steel...either galvanized or stainless.  But the "L"  braces and the channels are aluminum.  Aren't those dissimilar   metals?  What's the difference between aluminum rivets in stainless   steel...and stainless rivets in aluminum?     Dave

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:39 am Post subject: Firewall rivets

Isn't it true that the stainless steel will corrode at a slower rate than

aluminium it is in contact with?   That would make SS rivets more appealing

to me...remember we are only discussing a hand full of rivets in a key

location not the whole structure.



Noel



[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 6:55 am Post subject: Firewall rivets

Noel,

I think you can go either way without much worry.  The concern is mostly 

if you need to leave the surface unpainted (appearance)

or whether you intend to finish off the aircraft. If you corrosion 

proof, there isn't much of either material decision that can go wrong.



Larry McFarland

do not archive



Noel Loveys wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Isn't it true that the stainless steel will corrode at a slower rate than

aluminium it is in contact with?   That would make SS rivets more appealing

to me...remember we are only discussing a hand full of rivets in a key

location not the whole structure.



Noel

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