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Tank vent

 
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n7188u



Joined: 15 Nov 2015
Posts: 404
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 6:35 am    Post subject: Tank vent Reply with quote
Hello,

As I mentioned on a previous message, I am working on improving the vent in the tank to facilitate filling. I have a pretty fancy vent arrangement suggested by Bud and it works well but I built it with 1/4" aluminum tubing and it is basically insufficient in terms of airflow during venting. Works well in flight though.

So I replaced the single 1/4" tube in my existing vent in the tank with two 3/8" ones. One will be the permanent vent, still attached to 1/4" tubes to the fuselage vent at the bottom and the other will serve as vent when filling (with a quick disconnect valve used by the LR tank) but also as the LR tank filling line via an electric pump in the LR tank.

Well, enough background. My question is that the vent I placed worked worse than the original because its probably not at the very top RH corner of the tank. Can I have these pipes touching the top of the tank surface without fearing that vibration will cause wear between the tube and the tank plastic surface? It's very had to get the tube close enough without touching the tank top. It should really touch ensure it is at the absolute top and to work well but a little afraid of wear in the tank. Maybe overthinking.

Best,
Chris

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peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 6:50 am    Post subject: Tank vent Reply with quote
Fwiw, I have the 1/4” tubing without any filling issues. That said, I did change from the original “T” suction break fitting in the top of the cobra to two distinct cobra holes - vent at the top, and tank horizontal on the side. This eliminated any fuel from being spit out the bottom fuse vent/pitot. Indeed I use it effectively to tell me when the tank is full as it starts sputtering away into the cobra while I am filling. Only a second or two after the sputtering starts and the cobra fills.

I fill at full speed with the plastic gerry can’s vent cap removed. My biggest concern is wrt static/spark/ignition while fast filling…… so far so good (knock on wood).

Note that when I want to fill to the top, I ensure the pilot wing is down (I have a largish ~6” pogo clearance when wing-high) ensuring the vent is in the tank air-bubble.

Cheers,
PeteZ
C-GNPZ
(XS fuel filler config)

Quote:
On Aug 22, 2022, at 10:41 AM, n7188u <chmgarb(at)gmail.com> wrote:



Hello,

As I mentioned on a previous message, I am working on improving the vent in the tank to facilitate filling. I have a pretty fancy vent arrangement suggested by Bud and it works well but I built it with 1/4" aluminum tubing and it is basically insufficient in terms of airflow during venting. Works well in flight though.

So I replaced the single 1/4" tube in my existing vent in the tank with two 3/8" ones. One will be the permanent vent, still attached to 1/4" tubes to the fuselage vent at the bottom and the other will serve as vent when filling (with a quick disconnect valve used by the LR tank but also as the LR tank filling line via an electric pump in the LR tank.

Well, enough background. My question is that the vent I placed worked worse than the original because its probably not at the very top RH corner of the tank. Can I have these pipes touching the top of the tank surface without fearing that vibration will cause wear between the tube and the tank plastic surface? It's very had to get the tube close enough without touching the tank top. It should really touch ensure it is at the absolute top and to work well but a little afraid of wear in the tank. Maybe overthinking.

Best,
Chris




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n7188u



Joined: 15 Nov 2015
Posts: 404
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:08 am    Post subject: Re: Tank vent Reply with quote
Thanks for the reply Peter and interesting to hear you have no issues with the 1/4" tubing as I have.

My vent system also has two vents at the cobra, both horizontal. One is for the sight gage. The other is a tee where the tank vent is attached and also down to the fuselage bottom. I have to say it works but from around 15 to 18 I have to go very slow. Mostly not because the fuel will spit out but because the sight gage becomes totally unreliable as it seems pressure builds up in the tank and fills the entire sight gage up. Big deal? not really but wanted to improve this to be more accurate. My sight gage is against the seatback surface near the tank and not as indicated by the Europa manual in the foot well.

Is your vent tubing in the tank touching the top of the tank? Sounds as it is since you say you can fill to the top with no problem. I think it should otherwise you would loose capacity. But a little concerned about wear of the plastic tank.

Best,
Chris

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peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:34 am    Post subject: Tank vent Reply with quote
It is near the top, but now you have me wondering if it is touching and abrading….. I’m gonna go in with a camera and verify some clearance. I thought I set a bit clearance when I adjusted it…. But need to now confirm for my conscience Smile

The T is problematic I found when the vent starts burbling.

Cheers,
PeteZ

Quote:
On Aug 22, 2022, at 11:14 AM, n7188u <chmgarb(at)gmail.com> wrote:



Thanks for the reply Peter and interesting to hear you have no issues with the 1/4" tubing as I have.

My vent system also has two vents at the cobra, both horizontal. One is for the sight gage. The other is a tee where the tank vent is attached and also down to the fuselage bottom. I have to say it works but from around 15 to 18 I have to go very slow. Mostly not because the fuel will spit out but because the sight gage becomes totally unreliable as it seems pressure builds up in the tank and fills the entire sight gage up. Big deal, not really but wanted to improve this to be more accurate. My sight gage is against the seatback surface near the tank and not as indicated by the Europa manual in the foot well.

Is your vent tubing in the tank touching the top of the tank? Sounds as it is since you say you can fill to the top with no problem.

Best,
Chris




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n7188u



Joined: 15 Nov 2015
Posts: 404
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:52 am    Post subject: Re: Tank vent Reply with quote
So at lunch I removed my failed vent experiment, cut one of the 3/8" tubes to be about 1.5" from the fitting so that I can use it as my LR tank filling line and shaped the remaining 3/8" (or 9mm I think) tube to be placed at the top front RH corner. I can wiggle the vent fitting at the boss and feel when it touches the top and the side. I can also spin the fitting a little to feel when I am just touching the top since the tube is not quite concentric to the fitting (to reach the RH corner).

I think this will work just fine. A little sad to not have been able to increase the venting area but we don't refuel these things everyday (I wish).

Regarding abrading the top of the tank, there are some heat shrink tubing out there that are gasoline resistant. Just a matter of putting some at the end of the tube and move on.

Chris

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budyerly@msn.com



Joined: 05 Oct 2019
Posts: 291
Location: Florida USA
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:07 am    Post subject: Tank vent Reply with quote
I just put thin silicone on it or fuel line on the tip. But gravity works so eventually the tube may sag It's experimental.


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From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of n7188u <chmgarb(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2022 1:53:00 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com <europa-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Tank vent

--> Europa-List message posted by: "n7188u" <chmgarb(at)gmail.com>

So at lunch I removed my failed vent experiment, cut one of the 3/8" tubes to be about 1.5" from the fitting so that I can use it as my LR tank filling line and shaped the remaining 3/8" (or 9mm I think) tube to be placed at the top front RH corner. I can wiggle the vent fitting at the boss and fill when it touches the top and the side. I can also spin the fitting a little to feel when I am just touching the top since the tube is not quite concentric to the fitting (to reach the RH corner).

I think this will work just fine. A little sad to not have been able to increase the venting area but we don't refuel these things everyday (I wish).

Regarding abrading the top of the tank, there are some heat shrink tubing out there that are gasoline resistant. Just a matter of putting some at the end of the tube and move on.

Chris




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n7188u



Joined: 15 Nov 2015
Posts: 404
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:42 am    Post subject: Re: Tank vent Reply with quote
Sometimes there are simple solutions that seem to elude us Smile

Thanks Bud, I will do that.

Chris

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