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Electrical system for review and critique

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jgswartout(at)earthlink.n
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:42 pm Post subject: Electrical system for review and critique

Bob and list:  

   

My planned electrical system for my Zenith STOL CH-801 is now posted at:  

   

http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/jgswartout(at)earthlink.net.07.30.2006/  

   

for your review and critique.  A description accompanies the schematic.  Comments  

pro and con are solicited and welcome.  

   

John

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Erich_Weaver(at)URSCorp.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:33 pm Post subject: electrical system for review and critique

hey John



Im no expert so everything I say is suspect... but through Bobs

AeroElectric Connection and this list I have managed to wire my RV-7A more

or less according to Z-13/8 and hey - everything on the panel now lights up

when I tell it to.



A couple minor points:  I think the ANL- 40 current limiter is probably

fine instead of the -60 if you only have the 40 amp alternator



On your load analysis, note that the battery contactor is shut off  in the

event of main alternator failure and switching over to the SD-8, so you

actually have another 1 amp to play with on your endurance buss under this

condition



Im not very familiar with your modifications to the Z-13 alternator

regulator wiring that I guess you "borrowed" Z-14.  Remind me  - what are

you accomplishing with all those diodes?



Similarly, although there has been some discussion of this on the list, I

still dont get what the benefit is for the SD-8 self-excitation.  What is

the scenario where I would wish I had this?  (others welcome to jump in

here as you see fit!)



regards,

Erich Weaver

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jgswartout(at)earthlink.n
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:27 pm Post subject: electrical system for review and critique

--

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klehman(at)albedo.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:03 pm Post subject: electrical system for review and critique

Hi John

I believe that the EIS is fine as a hi voltage warning.

If you have functioning overvoltage protection, it will never illuminate 

anyway. Its low voltage warning will then be important though.

Ken



 	  Quote: 	
		  It appears, however that I left out the overvoltage

warning light.  I don't remember why (most of this I did about 12

months ago), but it may be that since I will be using the Grand Rapids

Technologies Model 4000 EIS for low-voltage warning, I may have been

intending to use it for overvoltage warning as well.  It comes with a

blinding indicator light which comes on when any user-set parameter is

violated.  I'd like Bob to comment on this, as I'm finished drilling

holes in the panel and plan to paint it in a few days.  Now would be a 	good

time to drill one more if necessary.

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Erich_Weaver(at)URSCorp.c
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:37 am Post subject: electrical system for review and critique

Hey again John



I checked the archives regarding your reference on the 60 amp fuse -  I

dont think you are interpreting this quite right.  The original post was

not really about Z-13, but a modified starter set-up that had been

suggested.  Also, the MAX 60 fuse is something different than an ANL

current limiter - check out the link posted in Bob's reply from the

archives:



http://www.bussmann.com/shared/library/catalogs/Buss_Auto-Fuse_Cat.pdf



I cant provide a direct reference - probably something from the

AeroElectric FAQ files - but I still think that the ANL40 is pretty robust

fuse and is fine with the 40 amp alternator.  Somebody please correct me if

Im full of it.



Erich Weaver

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jgswartout(at)earthlink.n
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:33 pm Post subject: electrical system for review and critique

Hi Erich,



I see your point, but I think the archived post is applicable, because if

you read the thread that comes up if you type "MAX60" into the archive

search window, it is all about using Z-22, which is one of the modifications

I have made to Z-13/8.  You're right, the MAXI fuses are not the same as ANL

current limiters; I haven't been able to find anything other than the post

cited to indicate the proper size for the protection device, whether MAXI or

ANL.  I think the point of using a MAXI fuse & holder was that they're

cheaper than an ANL current limiter.  I've already bought the ANL so that's

of no consequence to me.  Z-22 just says the device should be "sized to the

alternator."  Usually circuit protection devices are sized to protect the

wire they're attached to, unless the wire is unusually large for the gadget

attached, so I'm lost here.  However, this excerpt from a January 11, 2002

post from Bob might give a clue:



	The alternator is NOT the source of current that opens

    this fuse . . . Alternators are physically incapable of

    putting out much more than their design limit with respect

    to current (not so for voltage . . . you can get 100V+

    from a runaway alternator).



    The current source that might antagonize the alternator

    b-lead is the BATTERY . . . good for 700-1500 amps

    in a fault condition through fat wires. Hence, the

    alternator b-lead protection goes at the end of the

    wire opposite the alternator connection.



Incidentally, I haven't ruled out buying a B&C series-wound starter, but I

will wait until well into the test flight phase before deciding.  My A&P

says a Sky-Tec Fly Weight is a perfectly good starter; but to avoid possible

problems with the electronic ignitions at start-up, the B&C option might be

appealing. 

Thanks again.

John



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klehman(at)albedo.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 5:47 pm Post subject: electrical system for review and critique

Actually you are on the right track. ANL fuses are slow acting and a 40 

amp alternator is quite unlikely to ever blow a ANL40 as I see it. So 

that would be sufficient and would be my first choice if ordering a new 

part.  I'd also be happy with a ANL60 as long as the wire is at least 

AWG8. You want the ANL or fuse to open before the wire gets dangerously 

hot in the rare event of a short at or in the alternator. Even AWG8 

might warm up a fair bit before the battery opened an ANL60 but I 

wouldn't expect it to be much of a real risk..  I can see that some 

folks might be more comfortable with AWG6 wire on an ANL60.



I have a MAX50 and AWG8 wire on my 40 amp alternator but a MAX60 would 

also be a good choice IMO as these are fast acting fuses.



Ken



John Swartout wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Hi Erich,



I see your point, but I think the archived post is applicable, because if

you read the thread that comes up if you type "MAX60" into the archive

search window, it is all about using Z-22, which is one of the modifications

I have made to Z-13/8.  You're right, the MAXI fuses are not the same as ANL

current limiters; I haven't been able to find anything other than the post

cited to indicate the proper size for the protection device, whether MAXI or

ANL.  I think the point of using a MAXI fuse & holder was that they're

cheaper than an ANL current limiter.  I've already bought the ANL so that's

of no consequence to me.  Z-22 just says the device should be "sized to the

alternator."  Usually circuit protection devices are sized to protect the

wire they're attached to, unless the wire is unusually large for the gadget

attached, so I'm lost here.  However, this excerpt from a January 11, 2002

post from Bob might give a clue:



	The alternator is NOT the source of current that opens

    this fuse . . . Alternators are physically incapable of

    putting out much more than their design limit with respect

    to current (not so for voltage . . . you can get 100V+

    from a runaway alternator).



    The current source that might antagonize the alternator

    b-lead is the BATTERY . . . good for 700-1500 amps

    in a fault condition through fat wires. Hence, the

    alternator b-lead protection goes at the end of the

    wire opposite the alternator connection.



Incidentally, I haven't ruled out buying a B&C series-wound starter, but I

will wait until well into the test flight phase before deciding.  My A&P

says a Sky-Tec Fly Weight is a perfectly good starter; but to avoid possible

problems with the electronic ignitions at start-up, the B&C option might be

appealing. 

Thanks again.

John

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paulm(at)olypen.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:39 pm Post subject: electrical system for review and critique

I have a new 55 amp ND alternator and its rated for a max of 70 amps at 13.0 

V output.



Not sure about a 40 amp alternator but as you can see 70 amps is more than 

25% greater than the "so called" 55 amp rating.



I would never consider a fuse rated at less than 70 amps for my 55 amp rated 

alternator.



70 amps for vary long may overheat the alternator but that is another issue.



55 amps is the rated continuous output (with proper cooling); 70 amps is the 

max output with an output and field voltage of 13.0 v. Its not specified 

what the max output is where the output voltage drops below 14.3V 

(internally regulated).



Paul



---

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jgswartout(at)earthlink.n
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 7:17 pm Post subject: electrical system for review and critique

I'm showing that ANL current limiter on 4 ga. Welding cable, substituting

that for 4 AWG in Fig. Z-13/8.  That should be plenty big for the maximum

continuous load contemplated (25 amps).  Battery will be on the firewall so

all fat wire runs will be pretty short.



John



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