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engine failure due to filters

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kevpow(at)iinet.net.au
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:53 am Post subject: engine failure due to filters

I was interested but not surprised to read about an0 early flight engine failure in the last few days.

  

 Except that I ended in a field on the second flight0 it mirrors my experience exactly.

  

 I put lots of fuel through before first flight0 ,cleaned the filters etc.  When after the engine failure I inspected the0 filters there was nothing obviously visible to block both the0 filters.

  

 When I posted the problem there were lots with a0 similar experience.  It seems to be only in the early hours of flight that0 the blockages happen.   I put a concertina filter in and have had no0 more problems.

  

 My view , without proof , is that some form of fine0 film comes off the interior of the tank in the first few flights. 

  

 The problem seems to be specific to the Europa0 style tank not just to fibre glass aeroplanes.

  

 No one has been killed yet .  Is it possible0 to warn all builders now of this possibility and ban the small Europa supplied0 filters before someone is hurt.

  

 Kevin Pownall  0 kevpow(at)iinet.net.au

jeff(at)rmmm.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:27 am Post subject: engine failure due to filters

Kevin,

I have flown 27 hours off of N128LJ without a problem. I noticed a0

little debris collecting in the left filter so I have switched to the0

right side. I mounted the filters under a door in an arm rest between0

the seats. I can view them in flight if I want to. I will be changing0

them out soon but I don't think anything is wrong with the tanks. I0

believe their may be a fuel issue in some cases or area's. After the0

tanks were drilled we washed them out with a high pressure hose. No0

problems have been encountered yet.... as I'm Knocking on wood.

Regards

Jeff

RMMM

On Aug 2, 2006, at 8:45 AM, kevin pownall wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I was interested but not surprised to read about an early flight0

 engine failure in the last few days.

  

 Except that I ended in a field on the second flight it mirrors my0

 experience exactly.

  

 I put lots of fuel through before first flight ,cleaned the filters0

 etc.  When after the engine failure I inspected the filters there was0

 nothing obviously visible to block both the filters.

  

 When I posted the problem there were lots with a similar experience. 0

 It seems to be only in the early hours of flight that the blockages0

 happen.   I put a concertina filter in and have had no more problems.

  

 My view , without proof , is that some form of fine film comes off the0

 interior of the tank in the first few flights.

   

 The problem seems to be specific to the Europa style tank not just to0

 fibre glass aeroplanes.

  

 No one has been killed yet .  Is it possible to warn all builders now0

 of this possibility and ban the small Europa supplied filters before0

 someone is hurt.

  

 Kevin Pownall   kevpow(at)iinet.net.au

ksw(at)kenwhit.demon.co.u
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:04 am Post subject: engine failure due to filters

In message <001a01c6b639$f55ef530$e0513bcb(at)HomeWS1>, kevin pownall 

<kevpow(at)iinet.net.au> writes

 	  Quote: 	
		  I was interested but not surprised to read about an early flight engine

failure in the last few days.

 

Except that I ended in a field on the second flight it mirrors my experience

exactly.

 

I put lots of fuel through before first flight ,cleaned the filters etc.  When

after the engine failure I inspected the filters there was nothing obviously

visible to block both the filters.

 

When I posted the problem there were lots with a similar experience.  It

seems to be only in the early hours of flight that the blockages happen.   I

put a concertina filter in and have had no more problems.

 

My view , without proof , is that some form of fine film comes off the

interior of the tank in the first few flights.

 

The problem seems to be specific to the Europa style tank not just to fibre

glass aeroplanes.

 

No one has been killed yet .  Is it possible to warn all builders now of this

possibility and ban the small Europa supplied filters before someone is

hurt.

 

Kevin Pownall   kevpow(at)iinet.net.au


	


I believe you are right. I think the problem is related to the 

polyethylene fuel tank. It is possible that the fuel can extract waxy 

material from the polyethylene tank and more particularly any remaining 

polyethylene swarf from the cutting of the access holes. The waxy 

material could then coat the nylon filter elements. This series of 

events is more likely to occur when the aircraft experiences temperature 

cycles, hot testing and then cooling down in the hangar overnight. I 

have mentioned this to Europa, but the reply has been that following the 

Europa procedures this does not normally occur. All later tanks are 

fluorine treated and this should reduce the extraction tendency.

However, there is not an easy solution. The present filters are easy to 

inspect and relatively easy to clean. There is nowhere to put a more 

conventional filter where it is realistically easy to clean and inspect. 

The Andair mini-gascolator has very little more area than the Promax. 

The larger gascolator is very difficult to dismantle and re-assemble. I 

am no longer building a Europa, but if I were, I had been persuaded to 

stay with the existing design, but I would clean the filters frequently 

in the early stages. I would also fit a fuel pressure gauge and be 

prepared to act quickly to change to the other tank outlet if the fuel 

pressure dropped.

Ken Whiteley



Polyethylene Consultancy

josok-e(at)ukolo.fi
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:45 am Post subject: engine failure due to filters

 	  Quote: 	
		   The Andair mini-gascolator has very little more area than the Promax.  

 The larger gascolator is very difficult to dismantle and re-assemble. I


	


Simple question then: Has anybody experienced similar fuel problems  

without those automotive filters and a mounted gascolator?



-- 

Kind Regards,



Jos Okhuijsen



workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane

http:www.europaowners.org/kit600

mono xs, top on, gear in, tail wheel in, wings set, flapdrive in, tail  

closed, tailwheel in, tail top in, blue stuff filled, sanded and primed,  

fuel system in, doors done, windows in, sanding and filling the fuse and  

wings.

Dave Miller

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 51

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 11:02 am Post subject: engine failure due to filters

After close to 500 hours Chris Staines recently had to make a precautionary landing, when his fuel pressure gauge reading dropped. 

He has an Andair, but no fuel filters on his 914 mono. 

The andair filter was covered in something that he described as a green slime, perhaps from a bad batch of mogas. 

I'd used some of the same fuel but found no contamination in my Andair. 

 

Dave 

 

do not archive  

 

 

    "Jos Okhuijsen" <josok-e(at)ukolo.fi> 

Sent by: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com 

08/02/2006 02:44 PM 

Please respond to europa-list 

          

        To:        europa-list(at)matronics.com 

        cc:         

        Subject:        Re: engine failure due to filters 

 

 

--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jos Okhuijsen" <josok-e(at)ukolo.fi>

 

 > The Andair mini-gascolator has very little more area than the Promax.  

 > The larger gascolator is very difficult to dismantle and re-assemble. I

 

 Simple question then: Has anybody experienced similar fuel problems  

 without those automotive filters and a mounted gascolator?

 

 -- 

 Kind Regards,

 

 Jos Okhuijsen

 

 workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane

 http:www.europaowners.org/kit600

 mono xs, top on, gear in, tail wheel in, wings set, flapdrive in, tail  

 closed, tailwheel in, tail top in, blue stuff filled, sanded and primed,  

 fuel system in, doors done, windows in, sanding and filling the fuse and  

 wings.

topglock(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 11:02 am Post subject: engine failure due to filters

My own experience is much like Jeff's.  I Used 1.5" metal filters, from the auto parts store for first flight, and pitched them at one hour.  Replaced them with same type and pitched them at 25 hours, replacing with same and tossing at 50 hours.  At 150 hours, I installed the Europa filters.  Checked them at recent annual (200 hours) and they were fine.  Cleaned them out and reinstalled.  No problems at all.

 

 I did note some restriction in the first two sets of auto filters, though not enough to cause any problems.  After that, they are pretty much clean, upon regular 50 hour inspections...

 

 Jeff - Baby Blue

 200 hours

 

 JEFF ROBERTS wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		  Kevin,   

 I have flown 27 hours off of N128LJ without a problem. I noticed a little debris collecting in the left filter so I have switched to the right side. I mounted the filters under a door in an arm rest between the seats. I can view them in flight if I want to. I will be changing them out soon but I don't think anything is wrong with the tanks. I believe their may be a fuel issue in some cases or area's. After the tanks were drilled we washed them out with a high pressure hose. No problems have been encountered yet.... as I'm Knocking on wood.   

 Regards   

 Jeff   

 RMMM   

   

   

 On Aug 2, 2006, at 8:45 AM, kevin pownall wrote:   

   

    	  Quote: 	
		  I was interested but not surprised to read about an early flight engine failure in the last few days.     

       

 Except that I ended in a field on the second flight it mirrors my experience exactly.     

       

 I put lots of fuel through before first flight ,cleaned the filters etc.  When after the engine failure I inspected the filters there was nothing obviously visible to block both the filters.     

       

 When I posted the problem there were lots with a similar experience.  It seems to be only in the early hours of flight that the blockages happen.   I put a concertina filter in and have had no more problems.     

       

 My view , without proof , is that some form of fine film comes off the interior of the tank in the first few flights.     

        

 The problem seems to be specific to the Europa style tank not just to fibre glass aeroplanes.     

       

 No one has been killed yet .  Is it possible to warn all builders now of this possibility and ban the small Europa supplied filters before someone is hurt.     

       

 Kevin Pownall   kevpow(at)iinet.net.au (kevpow(at)iinet.net.au)     

   



No virus found in this incoming message.

kheindl(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 11:54 am Post subject: engine failure due to filters

Can't say I have had any problem with the Andair gascolator. It is mounted 

in the fuselage opening in front and next to the new steel springs. Easy to 

access and the open position may help to cool the fuel.

Have never noticed tank residue. My trigear is no. 392.



Karl





 	  Quote: 	
		  From: "Jos Okhuijsen" <josok-e(at)ukolo.fi>

Reply-To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: engine failure due to filters

Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2006 21:44:12 +0300






>The Andair mini-gascolator has very little more area than the Promax.  The 

>larger gascolator is very difficult to dismantle and re-assemble. I



Simple question then: Has anybody experienced similar fuel problems  

without those automotive filters and a mounted gascolator?



--

Kind Regards,



Jos Okhuijsen



workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane

http:www.europaowners.org/kit600

mono xs, top on, gear in, tail wheel in, wings set, flapdrive in, tail  

closed, tailwheel in, tail top in, blue stuff filled, sanded and primed,  

fuel system in, doors done, windows in, sanding and filling the fuse and  

wings.



http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

http://wiki.matronics.com

ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserv
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:30 pm Post subject: engine failure due to filters

Can't say I have had any problem with the Flo-ezy filter (at least I think 

that's how it's mis-spelt!),

which is similar to the automotive type but has a 100 micron screen

(although it started with a 25 micron screen) and "proper" AN fuel line

fittings, which makes removal easy.

The surface area is 20 sq.ins.



Occasional minor smudges of 'fuel fungi' are picked up, but nothing else

after 300 hours.



Duncan McF.

---

graeme(at)gcsmith.flyer.c
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:53 pm Post subject: engine failure due to filters

Yes, I have an Andair mini-gascolator and suffered a partial power loss 

requiring a forced landing (fortunately overhead the airfield) during 

the 2 hr endurance flight which is part of the PFA flight test program. 

This was after about 3.5 hrs total flight time. The mesh on the 

gascolator did not appear to be totally clogged but had a kind of fine 

gunk covering about half the area.



My fuel tank is one of the second design made around 1997. I never found 

out what the gunk was, whether it came from the lining of the tank or 

was introduced with the fuel.



The hope in replacing the Europa filters with the mini-gascolator was  

that the gascolator bowl would be easily removable and so the filter 

could be regularly inspected and cleaned, however this has proved not to 

be the case due to the fact that the bowl seems to jam on during use, 

and with the confined mounting space in the Europa, removing the bowl is 

incredibly difficult, and sometimes impossible. On the day of the engine 

failure, I was instructed by the test pilot (John Brownlow) to check the 

fuel filters. Since I was unable to get the bowl off to check the 

filter, I drained the contents of the gascolator into a sight glass and 

checked that there was no water or sediment. It was all clear, but I 

couldn't see that the filter was already clogged. I don't see the 

gascolator as a improvement, although I don't like the Europa filters 

either.



Fortunately, I have not had the same problem since, I am more rigorous 

about filtering the fuel during refuelling, and cleaning the gascolator 

filter at each refuelling despite the incredible hassle in trying to get 

the ****ing thing off.



Graeme Smith

No 26



Jos Okhuijsen wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



> The Andair mini-gascolator has very little more area than the Promax. 

> The larger gascolator is very difficult to dismantle and re-assemble. I



 Simple question then: Has anybody experienced similar fuel problems 

 without those automotive filters and a mounted gascolator?



 --Kind Regards,



 Jos Okhuijsen



 workshopcam http://www.okhuijsen.org/plane

 http:www.europaowners.org/kit600

 mono xs, top on, gear in, tail wheel in, wings set, flapdrive in, tail 

 closed, tailwheel in, tail top in, blue stuff filled, sanded and 

 primed, fuel system in, doors done, windows in, sanding and filling 

 the fuse and wings.



 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

 http://wiki.matronics.com





 --This message has been scanned for viruses and

 dangerous content by MailScanner, and is

 believed to be clean.

hagargs(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:25 pm Post subject: engine failure due to filters

I went through all the routines and thought I  had it licked.  Pressure

wash, gas flush, soap and water.  Inspection through the hole I cut for the

fuel level transducer.  Then using both pumps to run volumes of gas through

the system.  I thought I had it pristine.  Inspecting the  filters had them

"looking good"  However comparing a "clogged" filter against a new one only

revealed only a higher degree of  opaquenees? Hence my assumption that what

is  clogging the filter is the same color as the white element.  I would

have been better off not being able to see anything getting a false sence

of security.  So my fix is to get a disposable type filter at least 4 times

larger than the  supplied units and change them regularly in early flying. 

Making sure each one is right before each pump rather than at the outlet of

each side of the tank.

Steve

A143 N40SH

Flying and fixin'

Steve Hagar

hagargs(at)earthlink.net

 	  Quote: 	
		   [Original Message]

 From: JEFF ROBERTS <jeff(at)rmmm.net>

 To: <europa-list(at)matronics.com>

 Date: 8/2/2006 8:36:18 AM

 Subject: Re: engine failure due to filters

 Kevin,

 I have flown 27 hours off of N128LJ without a problem. I noticed a 

 little debris collecting in the left filter so I have switched to the 

 right side. I mounted the filters under a door in an arm rest between 

 the seats. I can view them in flight if I want to. I will be changing 

 them out soon but I don't think anything is wrong with the tanks. I 

 believe their may be a fuel issue in some cases or area's. After the 

 tanks were drilled we washed them out with a high pressure hose. No 

 problems have been encountered yet.... as I'm Knocking on wood.

 Regards

 Jeff

 RMMM

 On Aug 2, 2006, at 8:45 AM, kevin pownall wrote:

 > I was interested but not surprised to read about an early flight 

 > engine failure in the last few days.

 >  

 > Except that I ended in a field on the second flight it mirrors my 

 > experience exactly.

 >  

 > I put lots of fuel through before first flight ,cleaned the filters 

 > etc.  When after the engine failure I inspected the filters there was 

 > nothing obviously visible to block both the filters.

 >  

 > When I posted the problem there were lots with a similar experience.  

 > It seems to be only in the early hours of flight that the blockages 

 > happen.   I put a concertina filter in and have had no more problems.

 >  

 > My view , without proof , is that some form of fine film comes off the 

 > interior of the tank in the first few flights.

 >   

 > The problem seems to be specific to the Europa style tank not just to 

 > fibre glass aeroplanes.

 >  

 > No one has been killed yet .  Is it possible to warn all builders now 

 > of this possibility and ban the small Europa supplied filters before 

 > someone is hurt.

 >  

 > Kevin Pownall   kevpow(at)iinet.net.au

nwcmc(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:24 pm Post subject: engine failure due to filters

Having followed the air filter blockage discussion over the last few

years I would like to offer the following as a summary of what has been

learnt so far and what I think can be done to minimise the problem.



1. There are two main types of blockage.

	a. That due to swarf from tank drilling.

	b. That due to fuel impurities.

	

2. The swarf problem once solved, should not reoccur but even better not

to have it in the first place. This is not an easy task because it is

difficult to see and it tends to stick to the tank initially due to

static charge. To minimise the spread of any swarf, first place the tank

so any drilling is done from underneath. This stops the swarf falling

away from the hole. Drill slowly to avoid the swarf being thrown away

from the hole. When drilling is complete wipe the swarf around the hole

back through the hole with your finger. If holes are drilled in the top

of the tank for fuel quantity senders there is access to use a pipe on

the end of a vacuum cleaner hose to suck out any remaining swarf. As a

final measure the tank can be rinsed out with water. Before connecting

up the fuel piping forward of the firewall use the electrical pump to

empty the tank several times to catch any contamination before any

engine runs. This can also be combined with calibrating the tank

contents. Also check the filters/gascolator for contamination after each

engine run. Taxi checks will also help to shake the fuel around to

dislodge any remaining swarf.



3. Choice of filters or gascolators. The standard filters will not

collect much swarf before they block up. Larger filters help but a

gascolator is better still. A gascolator also provides an extra water

trap and the filter used in the Andair gascolator is fine enough to

prevent water passing through. Removing, emptying and cleaning/replacing

filters is more difficult with inline filters than gascolators. It is

also easier to incorporate gascolators into a rigid pipe system.

Remember that any rubber hose used should be replaced every 5 years.

Rigid pipework is lighter and a fit and forget system.



4. The only reported case of an Andair gascolator blocking is due to

fuel impurities sticking to the filter. The risk of this is minimised if

fuel is bought from sources with high turnover such as supermarket

filling stations. Another protection measure is to pour the fuel through

a 'Mr Funnel' funnel. This uses the same type of filter element as the

Andair gascolator so should prevent any contaminant getting through to

the gascolator. 



5. Removing the gascolator bowl after each flight initially, reducing to

after each service once hours have been accumulated will show up if any

swarf has been missed. Different versions of the Andair gascolator have

different means of attaching the bowl. The bayonet fit version is the

most difficult to remove and refit due to the tight tolerances of the

parts and the seal. This is made easier with a smear of grease between

the parts in the region of the seal before refitting.

I hope this list of points is of help, particularly for those of you

still building. There may be some more tips others can add to this list.



Regards



Nigel Charles

peter.rees01(at)tiscali.c
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:14 pm Post subject: engine failure due to filters

Nigel - Thanks for your words on engine failures - in the early days of us 

flying it G-MFHI suffered a partial engine failure - the trouble was 

isolated to the filter being clogged with fibers. I presume that these were 

latent from when the AC was built - I guess at the time of the failure, the 

filters were the original ones and the logbook had about 30 hours or so (we 

didn't build the AC so can't say for sure but the logbooks show no record of 

them being changed).



Some 150 hours later, we're still forced to change the filters very 

regularly (we clean them about ever 5 flight hours!) - we're getting small 

brown particles coming though and being trapped by the filters. We're at 

something of a loss as to what these particles are - we've changed all of 

the fuel pipes from the filters backwards. The only hose that hasn't been 

touched since new is the filler hose.



Have you heard any instances of this hose breaking down and edpositing bits 

into the fuel? Do you think that as a matter of course, given that this hose 

is some 10 years old now, replace it. If so, any suggestions of the best 

solution - Europa are unable to supply one and have no interest in doing so.



Any comments / suggestions would be most welcome.



Peter

ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:50 pm Post subject: engine failure due to filters

Hi! Nigel



I'd also seek to remind everyone about the need to ensure that the exit

hole drillings through the tank connectors are expanded at their

intersection, a check which needs the finger filters removed and

replaced.

I also can confirm that I use a Mini Andair gascolator and find it to be

excellent and without fault, cleaning it's filter at every service

reveals only the most slight contamination.



On Peter Rees problem ......is the filler pipe on your aircraft the

original early one?  There was a mandatory change of filler pipes and I

wonder if yours slipped the net?



Regards

Bob Harrison G-PTAG 

--

VE3LVO(at)rac.ca
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 6:31 am Post subject: Engine failure due to filters

Nigel,

            Thanks for the timely and interesting run-down on the aspects of 

tank and filter. This will not apply to 912 readesr but for us 914ers:

            Would you think a continuous running of series/parallel fuel 

pumps (with short circuits from output to return line) would forestall some 

of this plugging before flight? Since we here have a mandatory engine-run 

minimum perhaps we could do the above during that period and allay some of 

the suggested gumming/swarf concern.

            I have combined my 3/8inch alu tubing with a concentrated 

plumbing compartment (in the second of 56 compartments below the extended 

baggage section) where the filters are hinged above all so that they are (a) 

easily and quickly inspected, and (b) by draining the Andair below, emptied 

for dis-assembly and cleaning as required. I'm not sure it would meet with 

anyone else's needs but my inspector has OK'd it.   If I can master the 

technique, will try to reduce photo size and send to anyone interested.

Cheers, and thanks again,



Ferg Kyle

Europa A064 914 Classic

PS: Superb set-up there and hugs for Kathy.

belinda(at)gloverb.freese
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 11:04 am Post subject: engine failure due to filters

Peter,



I had the replacement Yellow date stamped black fuel pipe supplied F.O.C. by

Europa go exactly the same way as the non date stamped first one.



The aircraft had been filled with fuel (since there is no water trap)and

left standing for some weeks waiting on PFA paperwork and the fuel ate its

way through a full fuel pipe! I sent the original back to Europa for them to

examine but never got any feedback. When the second pipe did the same thing

and the fuel was again found on opening the cockpit, sat in the starboard

baggage bay, I decided that I would have to source my own pipe.



In both cases the pipe had embrittled and cracked right though where the

fuel sat in the lowest part of the pipe. On removal and cutting  the pipe,

the inner fuel proof lining was loose and disintegrated. There were lots of

small rubber particles which forced me to flush the tank.



It sounds like you might have a similar problem.



Regards

Gary McKirdy

NSI Subaru 75hrs TT Crashed by previous owner (at)50hrs Re-built by me, just

Re-crashed by me, deciding on second re-build!+- 4000 build and rebuild hrs!

---

g-iani(at)ntlworld.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:21 am Post subject: engine failure due to filters

Nigel Charles wrote

" The bayonet fit version is the most difficult to remove and refit due

to the tight tolerances of the parts and the seal. This is made easier

with a smear of grease between the parts in the region of the seal

before refitting."



Just one thing to add to Nigel's excellent summary.  The Mini gascolator

(bayonet fit) can be a job to remove but this is due to the Viton "O"

ring being stretched.  So fit a new vitron ring at the (cost of 1.65 GBP

each so get some spares) and your troubles are solved.



Ian Rickard  #505 G-IANI XS Trigear

Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear)

e-mail mods(at)europaclub.org.uk   

   or direct g-iani(at)ntlworld.com

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