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Slips and all the rest.
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AMuller589(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:01 pm Post subject: Slips and all the rest.

During landings you should never use skids or slips except on0 final for landings in a cross wind or need to lose altitude/airspeed. NEVER0 IN TURNS that is just asking for it.

clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:45 pm Post subject: Slips and all the rest.

Yes, it's something I tried just to do it.  I can get about 1800 ft / min max  at 60 (65) calibrated  indicated.  That works well on any final.  Clint

 

 [quote]   

From:  "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net>

Reply-To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To:  <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject:  Re: Re: Slips and all the rest.

Date:  Sat, 5 Aug 2006 17:35:50 -0700

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net>



I think I need a little help here.



When I slip to landing, I usually give full right rudder and drop the left wing to control heading, using elevator to control airspeed.  If I transition from my typical slip to a skidding turn, I will have to have to go from full right rudder, through neutral rudder to an uncoodinated left rudder (assuming flying left traffic).  I would think this would be a real rarity if not unheard of with any pilot with more than  a few hours.  My guess is that when Clint described his turns to final, slipping all the way down, he is using a left slip in left traffic and would use a right slip in right traffic - just a guess.



Lowell

---

clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:46 pm Post subject: Slips and all the rest.

I try to stall my aircraft at a very low altitude about 2 inches.  I make it once in a while.  Clint



  	  Quote: 	
		     any kind of slip is safe. Any kind of skid is safe. BUT NONE ARE SAFE IN A STALL AT LOW ALTITUDE.

clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 6:11 pm Post subject: Slips and all the rest.

I use a paper clip on pre flight to make sure static lines are clean.  I have one on each side so that I can slip in either direction and know what my airspeed is.  Clint  Love to slip

 

  	  Quote: 	
		     

From:  Dan Billingsley <dan(at)azshowersolutions.com>

Reply-To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject:  RE: Re: Slips and all the rest.

Date:  Sat, 5 Aug 2006 16:48:38 -0700 (PDT)

 



 One thing I would add...As I was demonstrating a forward slip to an instructor he asked that I keep the indicated speed up higher than I would normally have it on final. I'm sure this is common knowledge to some, but his answer made complete sence so I think it's worth mentioning...As a forward or side slip is initiated it will of course affect the ram air entering the pitot tube (the air is now entering at an angle). This is especially so when the wing with the pitot tube is aft and air flow is being blocked or disrupted by the fuselage. Now imagine how things might look if the P Tube decided to suck a bug during flight. This probably isn't a problem to a veteran that knows his/her plane...but it may be critical info for a low time pilot to understand.

   Dan 



Randy Daughenbaugh <rjdaugh(at)rapidnet.com> wrote:

    	  Quote: 	
		        

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           I agree that you can enter a spin anytime you stall in uncoordinated flight.  And both skids and slips are uncoordinated maneuvers. 

    

   Can you clarify your info from page 4-5?  I think you have a typo with skid and slip.

    

   I am going to have to try some slips and skids and watch the ball.

    

   Randy

    

      .           



    

            

   From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of AMuller589(at)aol.com

Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 3:44 PM

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: Slips and all the rest.



    

       REGARDINGSKIDS AND SLIPS, especially: [i]Tell me exactly how you spin an airplane from a slip.  Clint[/i]



       



      This is how it is done according to FAA-H-8083-3 "AIRPLANE FLYING HANDBOOK" page 5-11:



      quote: [i]A spin is when the airplane's wing exceeds the angle of attack (stall) with a side slip or yaw acting on the airplane at, or beyond the actual stall.  During this uncoordinated maneuver, a pilot may not be aware that a critical angle of attack has been 

exceeded until the airplane yaws out of control toward the lowering wing. If stall recovery is not initiated immediately, the airplane may enter a spin.[/i]



          [i]If this stall occurs while the airplane is in a slipping or skidding turn, this can result in a spin entry and rotation in the direction that the rudder is being applied, regardless of which wingtip is raised.[/i] end quote.



       



      The difference 

between a skid and a slip is shown on page 4-5 of this same book. It shows a slip as a maneuver with one wing low and the ball on the opposite side of the T & B from the  low wing whereas a slip occurs with the ball on the same side as the low wing or the wings level. i.e left wing down ball left is slip wings level ball right is slip, left wing down ball right is a skid.

 

       



      To answer the original question you can spin any time you have a hard over rudder AND A STALL. Skids and slips are safe and are demonstration required maneuvers AS LONG AS THERE IS NO STALL. (HIGH SPEED OR LOW SPEED)(UNACCELERATED OR 

ACCELERATED).

mike
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: Slips and all the rest.

This is how I veiw a slip.  You use right rudder and left stick, example, now this is important, plus forward stick.  Also, you use a slip to LOOSE altitude.  Once you loose the altitude you take OUT the slip.  The way I see it, you can only stall IF you go aft stick.  Thus you are not in a slip anymore you are in uncoordinated flight, you WILL stall and go right into a spin.

valley361(at)centurytel.n
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 7:22 pm Post subject: Slips and all the rest.

Forty minutes to download the two messages with  attachments. This will not work for me. I will have to leave the list if this0 continues. I know, it's my problem. If the list is going to operate this way,0 ok. I just cannot be included.

  

            0                0                0     Jay C.

 [quote]   ---

morid(at)northland.lib.mi
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:27 am Post subject: Slips and all the rest.

Jay is correct.  When Matt Dralle, the host for this list recently0 agreed to allow attachments he asked us members to keep our attachments0 relevant, necessary, and most of all, less than 200kb in size.  We are0 definitely in a world of DSLs, but there are still many people who live in rural0 areas and don't have access to anything other than dialup modems.  So,0 before you hit that send button, consider what you are sending and if you can't0 make it a reasonable size just either put it on a site where it can be viewed by0 clicking a link or send it directly to those who advise you they want to see0 it.

 Microsoft has small software called Image Resizer that is free, small0 download, and simple to use just for this purpose.  I can take a 1meg photo0 file and with just a couple mouse clicks resize it to 100kb for email with very0 little discernible difference in resolution.   A search on the  Microsoft site will find it easily.

 Thanks to all of you for your cooperation.

  

 Deke Morisse

 List Administrator

  

 [quote]   ---

rjdaugh(at)rapidnet.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 8:15 am Post subject: Slips and all the rest.

Clint,  

Thanks for staying with this.  I think I finally understand what you are saying.  

   

In a slip (forward or slide slip), the fuselage is masking the high wing.  So if that wing stalls it will move toward leveling the wing.  In a skid the masked wing is already low so when it drops you have less to work with.  

   

I gotta go fly now!  

   

Randy  - I like slips too!  

     

.             

  

         

  

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clint Bazzill

 Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 6:03 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Slips and all the rest.  

  

     

I will agree that you can spin from a slip but.  The origional comments were on stall spin accidents resulting in serious injury, but most likely death.  

   

When slipping to lose altitude which is near the ground and in the pattern you have a low wing. As the FAA AIRPLANE FLYING HANDBOOK says   

"If this stall occurs while the airplane is in a slipping or skidding turn, this can result in a spin entry and rotation in the direction that the rudder is being applied, regardless of which wingtip is raised."  

   

This tells me that If I have a steep wing down attitude in a slip to a landing the lower wing will have to go over the top as you are applying top rudder.  This would get your attention if it could happen.  

   

Quote from Stalls Spins and Safety by Sammy Mason pp 43.    

"SLIPPING AWAY THE STALL  

One of the most difficult maneuvers from which to enter a stall or spin is during a slip, particulrly a severe slip.  Not that a stall cannot be entered if there is enough elevator authority, it most certainly can.  But during a true wing-down slip, stalling is more difficult."  

   

This is my point.  Wing down slips for landings are pretty safe.   Clint   	  Quote: 	
		        

    

 REGARDINGSKIDS AND SLIPS, especially: [i]Tell me exactly how you spin an airplane from a slip.  Clint[/i]  

    

   

    

This is how it is done according to FAA-H-8083-3 "AIRPLANE FLYING HANDBOOK" page 5-11:  

    

quote: [i]A spin is when the airplane's wing exceeds the angle of attack (stall) with a side slip or yaw acting on the airplane at, or beyond the actual stall.  During this uncoordinated maneuver, a pilot may not be aware that a critical angle of attack has been exceeded until the airplane yaws out of control toward the lowering wing. If stall recovery is not initiated immediately, the airplane may enter a spin.[/i]  

    

    [i]If this stall occurs while the airplane is in a slipping or skidding turn, this can result in a spin entry and rotation in the direction that the rudder is being applied, regardless of which wingtip is raised.[/i] end quote.  

    

   

    

The difference between a skid and a slip is shown on page 4-5 of this same book. It shows a slip as a maneuver with one wing low and the ball on the opposite side of the T & B from the  low wing whereas a slip occurs with the ball on the same side as the low wing or the wings level. i.e left wing down ball left is slip wings level ball right is slip, left wing down ball right is a skid.  

    

   

    

To answer the original question you can spin any time you have a hard over rudder AND A STALL. Skids and slips are safe and are demonstration required maneuvers AS LONG AS THERE IS NO STALL. (HIGH SPEED OR LOW SPEED)(UNACCELERATED OR ACCELERATED).

MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 9:05 am Post subject: Slips and all the rest.

kitfoxmike sez:



 	  Quote: 	
		  The way I see it, you can only stall IF you go aft stick. Thus you 

are not in a slip anymore you are in uncoordinated flight, you WILL 

stall and go right into a spin.


	


A slip (or skid) IS uncoordinated flight!  A spin is uncoordinated 

flight.  The difference is, a slip or skid happens with enough 

airspeed to fly and a spin happens when you are stalled.  It is only 

indirectly related to where the stick is, it has everything to do 

with your airspeed (well, angle of attack really).



The bottom line is, don't stall if you are slipping or skidding.



Mike G.

N728KF

gofalke(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:54 pm Post subject: Slips and all the rest.

I started my flying in 1953 in gliders. At that time I was taught to make coordinated turns only and keep the ball in the middle. Side slips during turns was a no-no, either right or left. It invites stalls.

  Go ahead and shoot me down if you think you know better.

  The only good slip is a forward slip, right or left, on final, to loose altitude prior to landing. For practice, try forward slips at altitude. Right around 48 to 55 mph works best for me. Straighten the Fox out just befor landing.

   

  Herbert Gottelt M-4/1200.

  



Lowell Fitt <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net> wrote:

  [quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" 



I think I need a little help here.



When I slip to landing, I usually give full right rudder and drop the left  

wing to control heading, using elevator to control airspeed. If I 

transition from my typical slip to a skidding turn, I will have to have to 

go from full right rudder, through neutral rudder to an uncoodinated left 

rudder (assuming flying left traffic). I would think this would be a real 

rarity if not unheard of with any pilot with more than a few hours. My 

guess is that when Clint described his turns to final, slipping all the way 

down, he is using a left slip in left traffic and would use a right slip in 

right traffic - just a guess.



Lowell

---

dave(at)cfisher.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:21 pm Post subject: Slips and all the rest.

Hi Mike,



That was me that brought up that fact about base to final issues. I saw your 

other post with the video link-  EXCELLENT FIND !!

Now that everyone can see what can happen very clearly in that video and how 

many feet did he lose ?   I think he said 700 and that leaves little room 

for error.   http://www.apstraining.com/clips/skidded_turn_high.wmv

Sorry I was late in responding but it took a day to sift through all my 

emails after a week away.



Now for some videos to help each other on other issues.

Dave



---

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