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Clecos, final

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naumuk(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 4:30 pm Post subject: Clecos, final

I give up. All I wanted to know0 was how may clecos I'd need to finish my project so I knew in advance how many0 to order, and I get into a discussion on wing warp and a French0 lesson.

     And you wonder why people0 quit the list! 

     Zodie- how many clecos did you0 use on your HD? 

 Bill Naumuk

40%HDS 

Townville,0 Pa

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wscribb(at)centurytel.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 4:52 pm Post subject: Clecos, final

Bill,

  

 For my scratch built 601XL, I purchased 400 of the 3/32  (silver), 400 of the 1/8 (copper) and 200 of the 5/32 (black)  clecos.   With this amount I never found myself looking for additional  clecos of any size.  With this quantity I was able to build both wings at  the same time.

  

 Bill Cribb

  

 601XL scratch built on the gear working firewall  forward.

 Vaughn, WA



   From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill  Naumuk

Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2006 5:28 PM

To: zenith  list

Subject: Clecos, final

 

     I give up. All I wanted to know  was how may clecos I'd need to finish my project so I knew in advance how many  to order, and I get into a discussion on wing warp and a French  lesson.

     And you wonder why people  quit the list! 

     Zodie- how many clecos did you  use on your HD? 

 Bill Naumuk

40%HDS 

Townville,  Pa

- The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum -

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zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:00 pm Post subject: Clecos, final

Bill and others, cleco’s are a great tool and the more you have the better, but only trust them to hold two pieces of metal together and nothing more. They will not keep parts in alignment or stop parts from shifting or twisting. However, how many do you truly need for the XL. 100 silver, 200 copper and 300 black, 10 brass. When you have need for more then these #’s it is time to install tack rivets to secure the large assembly your working on. When you finish a rudder/ elevator don’t leave a 50cent cleco in the unit to store it , install a rivet with a flush head so that you will recognize which one you need to remove later, on large assemblies it is better to install tack rivets in the odd location to prevent movement. These can easily be drilled out later and you can use a A4 tack rivet in the line of A5 so that when you need to remove the tack rivet you can drill to A5 and install the proper size. Having 800 of each cleco is completely unnessary and when you get large crowds of cleco’s gathered in one place they start eating there young, that is why there is always less in the can the next morning. One other TIDBIT of wisdom, when I teach metalworking I ensure that no one keeps his or her head directly over the newly installed cleco. TRUST me on this point! After installing a cleco if your head is directly over it and the gripping teeth break that dam cleco will impale itself into your forehead with enough force to actually leave a welt and a very ugly purple bruise the following day! You can say the wife beat you during a frisky night to you friends that are not aircraft builders because it truly is easier to say that then first explain what a cleco is then how the hell it is possible to impart such a beating on a grown man! J  

   

Hope this helps  

     

Mark Townsend  Alma, Ontario  

Zodiac 601XL C-GOXL, CH701 donated to Jon   

www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com/ www.Osprey2.com  

   

  

-----Original Message-----

 From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk

 Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2006 8:28 PM

 To: zenith list

 Subject: Clecos, final  

     

    I give up. All I wanted to know was how may clecos I'd need to finish my project so I knew in advance how many to order, and I get into a discussion on wing warp and a French lesson.  

    

    And you wonder why people quit the list!   

    

    Zodie- how many clecos did you use on your HD?   

    

Bill Naumuk

 40%HDS 

 Townville, Pa

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planejim(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:29 pm Post subject: Clecos, final

Bill,

  

 I apoligize if I got you all worked up  over the number of clecoes needed to finish building your 601. I completely  agree with Mark Townsend that you probably already have enough on hand if you  simply follow some simple sheet metal construction techniques as Mark mentioned.  I just did a lousy job trying to explain what I meant about clamping and using  just a minimum number of clecoes. Of course the more you have the better but let  me close with saying that over the past forty years or more I've built three all  metal airplanes and have never had more tham 150 2/23", 200 1/8" , 100 5/32" and  10 3/16"' clecoes. This includes building and early 601HD 10 years ago and a  Midget Mustang I 35 years ago. I still have most of the same clecoes I used  then. 

  

 Again I appoligize for the poor way I tried to  make the same points Mark did. I should have just told you how many clecoes I  used. I was only trying to help. That's all I do these days is to try to help  homebuilders. Ask Mark. Roger Dubbert and all the Zenith guys. I guess I'm just  not very good at it!

  

 Jim Hoak

  

 do not archive

 [quote]   ---

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zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:29 pm Post subject: Clecos, final

Jim, you’re a dam fine gent ! Plus your heart is in the right spot and you have helped more people over the years learn how to build then most others I know. The internet is a hard place to teach though , without the advantage of seeing ones face and understanding the cues of body language a simple message that was intended to help can be misconstrued. Also, and this afflicts all of us. We teach from our base of knowledge, some have more then others and all our welcome to share from those who know.  Nevertheless, personal preferences will always take precedence when answering questions and it is always up to the person asking the question to capture all points of view and make the decision of what is the best route for them, be it hinged or hingless, Jabiru or Corvair, Red or Green pads. Some find it absolutely necessary to have 1000 of each kind of cleco and cannot fathom how anyone can work on a plane without their bare minimums while others can do quite well with 100 of each kind. Now I have to admit I have well over 1000 of each but I instruct builders and do manufacturing, plus for some dam reason they keep hiding themselves in the shop. So for the average builder doing a 601HD  Jims cleco count below is quite accurate. Whereas in my previous note I quoted the number I would want on hand for the 601XL and missed answering the specific question of the person actually wanting the answer, for that I apologize to the person asking the question. For the rest, remember when you ask a question there is no one answer, there are many points of view and you need to resolve your answer from the opinions at hand. Or after your all totally confused, just drop a letter to the Zenith family, the reply is not as fast as this Matronics list. But, they are after all here to help you in your adventure and have built many Zenair Designed planes over the years.  

   

OK , off soap box now and out to the shop to scrub my Corvair with green pads and look for those dam clecos. I have nightmares of them attacking me from under the bench!   

     

Mark Townsend  

Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.  

president(at)can-zacaviation.com (president(at)can-zacaviation.com)  

www.can-zacaviation.com   

  

   

--

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