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Tail lifting during full power static test

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JhnstnIII(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:00 pm Post subject: Tail lifting during full power static test

Listers--We are close to flying our RV-6.  On the airworthiness  certificate application it requires the builder to state that "the powerplant  installation has undergone at least one hour of ground operation at various  speeds from idle to full power. . . ."  Yesterday during the first full  power static test holding brakes and with the stick full aft the tail  came up on me.  Because I was approaching full power gradually (being  nervous about just this sort of possibility) I was able to quickly close the  throttle before the prop hit the ground.    

  

 Aircraft has an 0-360 and constant speed prop.  Aircraft was  light with just me aboard and a few gallons of fuel.   Aircraft  was recently weighed and empty CG was a few inches aft of forward limit. 

  

 I was able to complete the test by tying down the tail securely.  It  is still not a pleasant test to do.   

  

 Tonight checking the archives I see this characteristic has been  reported previously (in 1999) for both the RV-6 and the RV-8 with constant speed  props.  

  

 Thought I would mention it again for anyone out there about to do this  test.  Be very careful. 

  

 LeRoy Johnston in Ohio.

  [quote][b]

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:12 pm Post subject: Tail lifting during full power static test

JhnstnIII(at)aol.com (JhnstnIII(at)aol.com) wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		                   Listers--We are close to flying our RV-6.  On the airworthiness  certificate application it requires the builder to state that "the powerplant  installation has undergone at least one hour of ground operation at various  speeds from idle to full power. . . ."  Yesterday during the first full  power static test holding brakes and with the stick full aft the tail  came up on me.  Because I was approaching full power gradually (being  nervous about just this sort of possibility) I was able to quickly close the  throttle before the prop hit the ground.

   	
 Good move!  Also be careful when doing a full-power runup prior to taking the runway.  The nose-over syndrome should be lessened with full fuel.  However, if you don't have the brakes holding completely under high power and the plane starts to move ..... the normal impulse is to press harder on the brake pedals.  That small additional momentum may be enough to put the TD up on it's nose, and pulling the power may not work.  Just something to think about.

 Linn

 do not archive

 [quote]    

      

     Aircraft has an 0-360 and constant speed prop.  Aircraft was  light with just me aboard and a few gallons of fuel.   Aircraft  was recently weighed and empty CG was a few inches aft of forward limit. 

      

     I was able to complete the test by tying down the tail securely.  It  is still not a pleasant test to do.   

      

     Tonight checking the archives I see this characteristic has been  reported previously (in 1999) for both the RV-6 and the RV-8 with constant speed  props.    

      

     Thought I would mention it again for anyone out there about to do this  test.  Be very careful. 

      

     LeRoy Johnston in Ohio.

         	  Quote: 	
		  



	
 [b]

dbris200(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:33 pm Post subject: Tail lifting during full power static test

Also, be very careful with that hour of ground operation, if you have a new or overhauled engine you can ruin it in short order. Watch your temps closely.  And, it's a bad idea to do a full power runup in any small taildragger without the tail tied down.

 

 Dave  -6   So Cal

 

 

 linn Walters wrote: [quote]         JhnstnIII(at)aol.com (JhnstnIII(at)aol.com) wrote:

    	  Quote: 	
		                      Listers--We are close to flying our RV-6.  On the airworthiness certificate application it requires the builder to state that "the powerplant installation has undergone at least one hour of ground operation at various speeds from idle to full power. . . ."  Yesterday during the first full power static test holding brakes and with the stick full aft the tail came up on me.  Because I was approaching full power gradually (being nervous about just this sort of possibility) I was able to quickly close the throttle before the prop hit the ground.

     	
 Good move!  Also be careful when doing a full-power runup prior to taking the runway.  The nose-over syndrome should be lessened with full fuel.  However, if you don't have the brakes holding completely under high power and the plane starts to move ..... the normal impulse is to press harder on the brake pedals.  That small additional momentum may be enough to put the TD up on it's nose, and pulling the power may not work.  Just something to think about.

 Linn

 do not archive

    	  Quote: 	
		        

      

     Aircraft has an 0-360 and constant speed prop.  Aircraft was light with just me aboard and a few gallons of fuel.   Aircraft was recently weighed and empty CG was a few inches aft of forward limit. 

      

     I was able to complete the test by tying down the tail securely.  It is still not a pleasant test to do.   

      

     Tonight checking the archives I see this characteristic has been reported previously (in 1999) for both the RV-6 and the RV-8 with constant speed props.  

      

     Thought I would mention it again for anyone out there about to do this test.  Be very careful. 

      

     LeRoy Johnston in Ohio.

           	  Quote: 	
		  



	
   

	
 [b]

jack.lockamy(at)navy.mil
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 7:06 am Post subject: Tail lifting during full power static test

Why not be safe and ensure the tail is TIED DOWN and SECURE while doing this type of full-power run-up(s) test?  Surely there is a place on the airport you could find a well anchored tiedown.  

I know of two cases at our airport where the tail came up (RV-6s) and both guys ended up buying new props and paying for an engine tiedown prior to first flight.  Unbelievable.... but it still continues to happen.  Doesn't have to... but it does!  Amazing...  

Jack     [quote][b]

gerf(at)gerf.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 7:16 am Post subject: Tail lifting during full power static test

Did you're engine supplier not run your engine in the test 

stand before delivering it to you ? It should be marked in the 

log book, I think.  I.E. do you really need to run it for a 

whole hour ?  Aerosport ran my engine for a total of 45 mins 

before it was delivered - so apart from a short short "shake 

down" run and some taxi tests - its next run will be the wild 

blue yonder.



g



 	  Quote: 	
		   Listers--We are close to flying our RV-6.  On the airworthiness 

  certificate 

 application it requires the builder to state that "the powerplant  

 installation has undergone at least one hour of ground 

 operation at various  speeds from 

 idle to full power. . . ."  Yesterday during the first full  

 power static test 

 holding brakes and with the stick full aft the tail  came up on 

 me.  Because 

 I was approaching full power gradually (being  nervous about 

 just this sort of 

 possibility) I was able to quickly close the  throttle before 

 the prop hit 

 the ground.    

  

 Aircraft has an 0-360 and constant speed prop.  Aircraft was  

 light with just 

 me aboard and a few gallons of fuel.   Aircraft  was recently 

 weighed and 

 empty CG was a few inches aft of forward limit. 

  

 I was able to complete the test by tying down the tail 

 securely.  It  is 

 still not a pleasant test to do.   

  

 Tonight checking the archives I see this characteristic has 

 been  reported 

 previously (in 1999) for both the RV-6 and the RV-8 with 

 constant speed  props.  

  

 Thought I would mention it again for anyone out there about to 

 do this  test. 

  Be very careful. 

  

 LeRoy Johnston in Ohio.

 


	


-- 

__g__



========================================================== 

Gerry Filby                                  gerf(at)gerf.com

                   Tel: 415 203 9177

----------------------------------------------------------

dan(at)rvproject.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:08 am Post subject: Tail lifting during full power static test

I want to back what Kabong & Jack L. have  said.  Do we need to circulate that horrible Lancair engine run video  again? (no)  A lot of bad things can happen when an engine is running,  especially if precautions haven't been taken.  I've seen videos of RV first  engine runs where the plane isn't even chocked, let alone tied down.   Can't believe people actually do these things.  To me, a not-fully-secured  engine start is analogous to CFIT.  Pilot error for sure, and it coulda  been avoided.

  

 For most of us, first engine run is at the end of a  2-10+ year journey.  Why risk throwing ANY of that hard work away, or risk  somebody getting hurt, or risk somebody else's hard work getting damaged?   Don't answer that question.  Just be safe.

  

 FWIW, my RV-7 tail was tied down securely for my  engine runs, and the tail still "hopped" when I did full power runs because my  mains were chocked.  There is no way to know beforehand whether or not it  will do this.  -7, or -8, or Rocket, or whatever, regardless of the  powerplant.  Just be safe.

  

 Not that I want to make light of any of this, but  see the attached photo to see what can happen if the plane is not secured well  enough for that first engine run.

  

 )_( Dan

 RV-7 N714D

 http://www.rvproject.com

 [quote]   ---

mike_flight.jpg

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Jerry Grimmonpre'

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 144
Location: Huntley, Illinois 60142

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:07 am Post subject: Tail lifting during full power static test

What is a safe method for tying down the tail on RV4,  RV8.  Please cover ALL details if known.

 Many thanks ...

 Jerry Grimmonpre'

 RV4 flying

 RV8A wires

  

 [quote]   ---

tcervin(at)valkyrie.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 6:15 pm Post subject: Tail lifting during full power static test

Dan, At least the RV in the picture has the little wheel  on the "Right End" so it won't nose over!

                                                         Flame Suit On!!      Tom in Ohio....RV6-A now at 40  Hours!!!         DO NOT ARCHIVE

 ---

Morocketman(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 6:47 pm Post subject: Tail lifting during full power static test

I had flown my Harmon Rocket II with IO-540 (260hp) for about half of the 25 hour flyoff time when I decided to start experimenting with what might happen when I was able to take a passenger along.  I put a spare tire and wheel from my boat (estimated 20 lbs) in the baggage compartment.  The airplane was sooooooooo much easier to maintain directional control on the ground, and just felt better all around.   By the way, my tail weight is 43 lbs which is way more than John Harmon likes.

  

 I very seldom fly solo now, but when I do, and when I think of it, I put a collapsible 5 gallon water jug in the pit.  Not being a math whiz I think it must weigh about 40 lbs plus the tare weight of the jug.  When I pickup a passenger, I just dump the water.

  

 Not environmentally correct I suppose (creating oasis' is all the wrong places), but it really improves the airplanes manners.

  

 I do exercise the prop at 1700 rpm, and wonder what the consequences of not doing so might be.  My airplane doesn't seem to be prone to lifting the tail, but I am wary.

  

 Be particularly careful with braking on cement or asphalt runways/taxiways or you can send her up on her nose.  I had a scare on the first or second flight.

  

 Les Featherston  N206KT  "Airgasm" has 281 hours, and flew just great today.

  [quote][b]

JhnstnIII(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 7:30 pm Post subject: Tail lifting during full power static test

"Did you're engine supplier not run your engine in the test 

stand  before delivering it to you ? It should be marked in the 

log book, I  think.  I.E. do you really need to run it for a 

whole hour ?   Aerosport ran my engine for a total of 45 mins 

before it was delivered - so  apart from a short short "shake 

down" run and some taxi tests - its next run  will be the wild 

blue yonder."



  

 It was run at the factory, but now it is installed in a new airplane with  new fuel lines, engine mount, exhaust system, etc.   I would not have  felt comfortable signing the form without running it in its current installation  and knowing it would go to full power in takeoff/climb  attitude.    

  

 Re the question of how to tie down the tail securely, all I can say is I  used an airport tie down that looked solidly anchored with a rope in good  condition.  I tied it around the tail spring with three loops and two half  hitches.  I also added about 60 pounds to the baggage  compartment.  

  

 I would not want anyone hanging on the fuselage as some have  mentioned.   That sounds like asking for trouble.

  

 LeRoy Johnston in Ohio.

  

  

  [quote][b]

jsflyrv(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:12 pm Post subject: Tail lifting during full power static test

 	  Quote: 	
		   At least the RV in the picture has the little wheel on the "Right 

 End" so it won't nose over!

 flame suit on                   DO NOT ARCHIVE


	


I will put my flame suit on first 



With my 180hp, sensenich fixed pitch prop I can run full throttle and 

hold it with brakes and full up elevator. Having said that I can also

hold the brakes and lift the tail off of the ground and hold the plane

in level flight attitude and not be moving. It is very easy to control

the pitch attitude of the airplane with the elevator. NOW FOR THE 

DISCLAIMER I do not advocate anyone here trying this, I learned to fly 

in tailwheel airplanes back in the 1960s and have owned and flown many 

tailwheel airplanes. 99% of all of my landings are wheel landings

so being on the two mains feels comfortable.



Jerry



do not archive

Jeff Linebaugh

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 48
Location: Collierville, TN

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 7:04 am Post subject: Tail lifting during full power static test

_________________
Jeff Linebaugh
jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
Collierville, TN

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