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History of 500A wing spar problems.

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jhasler(at)gte.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:01 am Post subject: History of 500A wing spar problems.

I was wondering if anyone could help me with current or historic information on the Aero commander 500A in reference to problems with the wing spar.   

I have N 800AC which I have been working to get airworthy for the last few years and was down to one last problem. I had a fuel leak which you could smell in the aft cabin. When they pulled the center fuel bladder out to repair or replace they found the wing spar in my plane to be 50% deteriorated.  

   

Are there any ADs or service advisories which would have covered this problem in the past?   

Where can I get replacement parts?  

   

Thanks,  

Jim  

   

        [quote][b]

dowens(at)aerialviewpoint
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 7:05 am Post subject: History of 500A wing spar problems.

Go to   http://www.commander-aero.com/sparinspections.htm     AND...   good luck.

  

  

  

  

 David Owens

Aerial  Viewpoint

N14AV

AC-500A-Colemill

   [quote][b]

dowens(at)aerialviewpoint
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 7:09 am Post subject: History of 500A wing spar problems.

Spar inspection & spar replacement 

Gary Kromer 888.881.5580 / 937.684.2894  (m)

  

  

  

  

 David Owens

Aerial  Viewpoint

N14AV

AC-500A-Colemill

   [quote][b]

wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.c
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 10:04 pm Post subject: History of 500A wing spar problems.

Jim,

 There are others far more knowledgeable than me on this subject, but if the have a look on the Australian Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) web site (www.casa.gov.au) you will find a whole history of the wing spar problems.

 The guts if the problem was that spar extrusions were cold bent and not stress relieved.

 Australia published (some quite lunatic) hard spar lives for almost all GA aircraft, for a 500A in normal serviceable condition, with the AD required spar strap, the life is unlimited.

 In some ( not AC) aircraft, it can be as low as 8000 hours.

 Regards,

 Bill Hamilton



 



 

 At 11:04 PM 18/08/2006, you wrote:

 [quote]  

 I was wondering if anyone could help me with current or historic information on the Aero commander 500A in reference to problems with the wing spar. 

 I have N 800AC which I have been working to get airworthy for the last few years and was down to one last problem. I had a fuel leak which you could smell in the aft cabin. When they pulled the center fuel bladder out to repair or replace they found the wing spar in my plane to be 50% deteriorated.

  

 Are there any ADs or service advisories which would have covered this problem in the past? 

 Where can I get replacement parts?

  

 Thanks,

 Jim

  

 

 [b]

wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 4:32 am Post subject: History of 500A wing spar problems.

Jim,

 Try this, I was looking everywhere but the obvious place, I was talking to Swift today, it doesn't altogether surprise me he rides a bicycle.

  http://www.casa.gov.au/airworth/papers/aerocommander.pdf

 Cheers,

 Bill Hamilton



 



 

 At 11:04 PM 18/08/2006, you wrote:

 [quote]  

 I was wondering if anyone could help me with current or historic information on the Aero commander 500A in reference to problems with the wing spar. 

 I have N 800AC which I have been working to get airworthy for the last few years and was down to one last problem. I had a fuel leak which you could smell in the aft cabin. When they pulled the center fuel bladder out to repair or replace they found the wing spar in my plane to be 50% deteriorated.

  

 Are there any ADs or service advisories which would have covered this problem in the past? 

 Where can I get replacement parts?

  

 Thanks,

 Jim

  

 

 [b]

br549phil(at)mindspring.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:40 am Post subject: History of 500A wing spar problems.

Excellent infromation.

 Thanks

  

  Phil Stubbs

  

  

 [quote] ---

rsrandazzo(at)precisionma
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:52 am Post subject: History of 500A wing spar problems.

I think i'm going to take up walking...

  

 Rob

  



   From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  br549phil(at)mindspring.com

Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006  11:39

To: commander-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re:  History of 500A wing spar problems.

 

  Excellent infromation.

 Thanks

  

  Phil Stubbs

  

  

 [quote]   ---

n395v

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 450

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:57 pm Post subject: Re: History of 500A wing spar problems.

I'm sooooooooo0o   confused.



My impression when I first got into commanders was only 2 planes had had spar failure. 1 allegedly had pre existing spar damage in a hangar door accident that was poorly repaired and the other was 2 tennagers high on Marijuana trying to imitate Bob Hoover.



Were there really 24 in flight failures?????

_________________
Milt

rsrandazzo(at)precisionma
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:34 pm Post subject: History of 500A wing spar problems.

Milt-



I thought there had been a few more- but that they were mostly low-level

work aircraft subject to pretty high stress loads as a routine part of their

operation.  Apparently this isn't the case.



This makes me worry...  N414C had that hard landing incident in 2001(?)...

Was any consideration given to the strain placed on the wing spar in that

incident?  Crikey... Time for more costly inspections? 



Rob



--

n395v

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 450

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: History of 500A wing spar problems.

I believe ALL spar failures have been corrosion related. N414C has had 1 if not 2 AD mandated inspections since the landing and has passed without difficulty. Also note from the commander aero website that those aircraft affected (based on repetetive inspections of the fleet) are few and far between. To my knowledge since the AD there have been no failures.



Drink beer get some nooki and don't worry.

_________________
Milt

rsrandazzo(at)precisionma
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 5:12 pm Post subject: History of 500A wing spar problems.

Milt-



I'll have to settle for just the beer.  First child shows up any day now- so

The Mr.s isn't much in the mood for nooki.  



Just got the new cabinets for N414C back from the cabinet maker.   Nice

mahogany finish (not real- but looks great).  Redesigned them to suit my

needs a bit better-  flight manuals/docs within easy reach, an ice drawer

capable of holding a 6 pack of coke and ice (reachable from the cockpit, of

course!) and two nice, roomy storage bins for any food stuffs the wife might

wish to bring along....



Still wending our way through the autopilot certification process... It's

holding up progress a bit- but the short term game plan is to get her flying

again by end of september.



You are correct-  2 spar AD inspections and nothing noted.  Third one is due

next year.  No doubt I'll be seeking advice from this group on where to take

her.



Rob

--

wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.c
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:12 am Post subject: History of 500A wing spar problems.

Folks,

 I'm not kidding, Steve Swift from CASA really does ride a bicycle, I'll bet he isn't too happy riding the railroad, wheels and tracks fatigue, bridges crack, even the odd cave roof falls in when the rupture modulus of the local mountain is exceeded.

 What we all have to understand is that "life" is the problem, it's a sexually transmitted terminal disease.

 I knew about all this, and still bought my 500A.

 Cheers,

 Bill Hamilton



 



 At 05:49 AM 22/08/2006, you wrote:

 [quote] I think i'm going to take up walking...

  

 Rob

  



  From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [ mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of br549phil(at)mindspring.com

 Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 11:39

 To: commander-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: History of 500A wing spar problems.

 

 Excellent infromation.

 Thanks

  

 Phil Stubbs

  

  

   ---

wjrhamilton(at)optusnet.c
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:30 am Post subject: History of 500A wing spar problems.

Folks,

 To keep things in perspective, if you examine the databases, world wide, FOR ALL TYPES, it make interesting reading. Another US type that features prominently is the Beech 18, but the total number of in-flight failures of DeHavilland built aircraft is interesting, from the Chipmunk, through the Dove and Heron, and finally the Trident jet --- not necessarily in flight failures ---- but picked up in routine maintenance.



 With the Aero Commanders, the problem was/is the cold bent extrusions ---- but ----- with the AD's up to date, and properly conducted inspections----- 



 RE. Australian experience, the local experts are a company called General Aviation Maintenance, Steve Nott, and you should see the wonderful aeroplanes that come out of his hangar (his is a Renaissance centre), and I have lost count of how many various 500B/S etc and 690 he actually owns and operates in his own right, or leases to other operators, somebody recently quoted 20+.  



 Again to keep things in perspective, despite the "apparent" record, the majority of aircraft owned and operated by DCA/DoA/CAA were Aero Commander, variously small fleets of 560E, through 695.



 As I said in a previous message, I knew all this, and still bought ZK-DCF, I do have some corrosion rectification to do, but it is all in the lap joints or the ribbed skins.



 Cheers,

 Bill Hamilton



 



 

 At 07:35 AM 22/08/2006, you wrote:

 [quote]--> Commander-List message posted by: "John Vormbaum" <john(at)vormbaum.com>



 Milt,



 I haven't decided how much credit to grant these reports. I've heard varying stories, including one that the chief investigator was on a crusade against Commander for some bizarre personal reasons. I also have heard that some of the accidents ascribed to spar failure did involve a "spar failure"....when the spar hit the ground at 170kts, it failed.

 

 I also think that the airplanes down under were operated in a harsher environment, in a more heavy-handed or less well (factory) supported fashion (this may be erroneous on my part).



 Regardless, the AD's & SB's are in place, and if the airplanes are so bad, why have spar failures dropped to zero? When's the last time we had spar issues in the flight group? There've been NONE in the almost 8 years I've been participating. I've got 18,000+ hours on my airframe and my spar is fine.



 /John



 ---

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