Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - Thoughts on the Garmin 496/396 ?

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Thoughts on the Garmin 496/396 ?

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Zenith-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

john.marzulli(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:59 am Post subject: Thoughts on the Garmin 496/396 ?

I'm thinking about getting my first  GPS unit, and was considering the Garmin 396 or the Garmin  496.   

Does anyone have any experience with  these units? Is the XM Weather update worth the subscription? Does the  automobile navigation work well? Has anyone used the 496 for marine navigation? Anything I'm missing that may be a  consideration?



To give a little context, my wife and I are starting to make longer x-country flights into unfamiliar territory with our little 150. This is going to be a main "mission" of the CH701 we are building, except into Alaska and British Columbia  for camping instead of urban centers. So I was was thinking about going with a dash-mounted GPS, something like a Dynon FlightDek D-180, a radio, a transponder and then call it a day. 

 Thanks in Advance!



-- 

John Marzulli

http://701Builder.blogspot.com/



"Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.  [quote][b]

p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:52 pm Post subject: Thoughts on the Garmin 496/396 ?

Hi John,



 I don't have the answers to your question, but I do have another question to add to the discussion.



 The most recent Avweb newsletter  http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/702-full.html#193011got me looking into the collision avoidance issue with particular attention to airborne equipment.  It seems that Alaska, Oregon, and much of the East Coast now sport ADS-B features that give high class information to equipped aircraft about location and direction of other aircraft.  I am sure this requires new equipment, but I have not been able to learn what equipment is needed or how much it costs.  I think there is some distant relationship between this stuff and Mode S transponders, but I also think the mode S equipment is about to become obsolete.



  From my opinionated point of view, the issue of collision avoidance is a much bigger one for pilots planning on mostly VFR flying than some of the fancy weather and terrain avoidance issues addressed by the new Garmin GPS machines.  If the price were the same I would much rather have a picture of the aircraft currently sharing my airspace than satellite delivered weather information.  I don't see how terrain information is useful for VFR flight - especially since you need GPS operating to get it and with a little flight planning the GPS already gives you the capability to easily navigate around high terrain.



 I can't imagine paying around $3000 for an overly fancy GPS when there are much less expensive ones that give fine navigation capability along with all sorts of useful database information about airspace and airports.  There is always the old fashioned method of getting weather information - the Flight Service Stations.  It seems necessary to call the FSS anyway to learn where the latest "Pop-up" restricted airspace is.



 I would appreciate any information listers might have on the whole ADS-B and collision avoidance equipment issue.  I tried to pull it from the net, but all I got was endless descriptions of committees.



 Thanks,



 Paul

 XL fuselage



 



 [quote]I'm thinking about getting my first GPS unit, and was considering the Garmin 396 or the Garmin 496.

 

 Does anyone have any experience with these units? Is the XM Weather update worth the subscription? Does the automobile navigation work well? Has anyone used the 496 for marine navigation? Anything I'm missing that may be a consideration?

 

 To give a little context, my wife and I are starting to make longer x-country flights into unfamiliar territory with our little 150. This is going to be a main "mission" of the CH701 we are building, except into Alaska and British Columbia for camping instead of urban centers. So I was was thinking about going with a dash-mounted GPS, something like a Dynon FlightDek D-180, a radio, a transponder and then call it a day. 

 Thanks in Advance!



 -- 

 John Marzulli

  http://701Builder.blogspot.com/

 

  	  Quote: 	
		  



_[/b] 	
[b]

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:21 pm Post subject: Re: Thoughts on the Garmin 496/396 ?

John, I got a chance to play with a 396 recently and it is by far the best thing since sliced bread if you are going to be flying X-C. The uplinked Nexrad weather, when used correctly, will save more lives than all the ballistic parachutes BRS can ever build.



The real differences between the 3 & 496 are the car kit, taxi maps, a faster refresh rate and the Airport directory. 



If you are going to use it in the car as well the fact that the 496 comes with the car kit and data reduces the price difference between the 396 & 496 by ~$250.



The Taxi maps are nice if you are going to be going into larger airports that you aren't familiar with.



The faster refresh rate makes the GPS driven panel more useful as a backup for the aircraft's panel.



The directory is just convenient.



Paul, Here is some info on ADS-B from Garmin  http://www.garmin.com/aviation/adsb.html



You'll note that the only thing they sell that can use it is the GDL-90. This will put it out of 601/701 class planes at least for now.



It is a pity the FAA is disabling the TIS system which a 3/496 and a GTX 330 would give you.

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:31 pm Post subject: Thoughts on the Garmin 496/396 ?

ADS-B will be great but will be a long time coming. For one thing  to get the most out of the system the other planes around you also need to be  equipped with ADS-B gear. At least the system will be useful without waiting for  the FAA to install equipment on the ground.

  

 www.garmin.com/aviation/adsb.html 

  

 --  Craig 

   [quote][b]

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:47 pm Post subject: Thoughts on the Garmin 496/396 ?

I  have the 296. I view the 496 as an incremental upgrade to the 396 for a  relatively small price increase: $2200 to $2800 list.For that you get a faster  processor, a few more databases and improved air-space warnings. One key  difference is that the 496 comes with the road database built-in while the nav  kit for the 396 is a $250 add-on (p/n 010-10510-00).  You will have to pay $50 for the  external speaker to listen to turn-by-turn directions in your car (p/n 010-10512-00)

  

 Either way the AirGizmos docks are a neat way to  install a portable GPS in your plane:

  

 www.airgizmos.com/

  

 --  Craig

   [quote][b]

jean-paul.roy4(at)tlb.sym
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:32 pm Post subject: Thoughts on the Garmin 496/396 ?

Paul, give John a chance of getting good answers to  his question. Starting a new thread i soo easy. Why troubling John's water with  your question?

  

 do not archive

  

 J.P.

 [quote]   ---

pmoore505(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 5:28 pm Post subject: Thoughts on the Garmin 496/396 ?

I have had a 396 for nearly a year. I have flown  with it about a dozen times but only locally (2.5 hour Xcountry max). It is  great with the terrain info and allows you superb insight on distance  to topography, easy to calculate rate of climb necessary to clear, etc. so  flying in mountainous terrain is a breeze. I've made more of a production of the  navigation features than necessary just to flex it's power and it does very  well. Refresh rate isn't a problem, unless you fly an F-16 or  something.

  

 I have not subscribed to the XM weather yet, since  I still have not finished my plane so flying hours are low. Several friends  have, and swear by it out here in the Southwest US where clear sky turns  into massive FL450 T-heads in about 12 seconds. I mentioned to them that  tactical avoidance is not recommended because of the time delay (not quite "real  time" weather updates) and they both thought it is plenty real time to do a good  job of picking the right altitude for tail winds, skirting building storms, etc.  They both love them and are both high hour / very frequent flyers.

  

 One of them just upgraded to a 495 and doesn't  think the upgrade is really worth it. The only big thing the 496 does that the  396 doesn't is the taxi data and unless you hop between large Class B airports,  it isn't really that useful. The 396 does the airport directory as well as  weather, terrain, nav, waypoints, even warnings when approaching airspace  boundaries.

  

 I have driven with it in ground mode more than I  have flown with it and frankly, won't travel without it. City guide is very  useful but once in a blue moon not exactly right - roads aren't there or roads  that are there aren't known in the 396 (simply database errors). Enter address  and it steers you there, accurately - turn warnings and all. It remembers the  last items you searched for so easy to jump off and navigate to an  alternate stop, then get back to your original destination with only a button  push or two. One complaint - when searching for the nearest Italian restaurant,  you can't search by category, only by name or location so unless "Italian" is in  the name, you can't find the nearest Italian restaurant directly. Mine came with  the car kit as part of the deal so no extra cost there. I'd recommend it if you  are going to use it in the car, or on the top of your panel.

  

 Quality of the unit is superb. Backlight is very  bright but in the brightest daylight under an XL bubble, it may be borderline,  don't know. That's why I'm mounting mine, in one of the airgizmo's mounts, right  up under the overhang on my panel. The power connector on the back (cigarette  lighter version) is very tight which is good, but even being careful, I have  pulled one apart and had to get a replacement.

  

 All up, I'd buy it again without hesitation. I've  also done the Dell Axim with Teletype GPS map deal and it doesn't come close,  even when accounting for the large cost differential. I have held and looked at  some of the competitive products and they all look capable within their suite of  offerings. I cannot recommend for or against the 396/496 vs any of them because  I have not flown with them - so no direct comparison. It does take some use to  become fluent in it's use. I suspect any of the electronic gadgets do - glass  panels, etc. included.

  

 Hope this is the kind of info you were looking  for.

  

 Paul Moore

 Silver City, NM

 XL - O200

  

 _________________________________________________________________________________

  

 



 [quote]    	  Quote: 	
		        	  Quote: 	
		  I'm thinking about        getting my first GPS unit, and was considering the Garmin 396 or the        Garmin 496.



Does anyone have any experience        with these units? Is the XM Weather update worth the subscription? Does        the automobile navigation work well? Has anyone used the 496 for marine        navigation? Anything I'm missing that may be a        consideration?



To give a little context, my        wife and I are starting to make longer x-country flights into unfamiliar        territory with our little 150. This is going to be a main "mission" of the        CH701 we are building, except into Alaska and British Columbia for camping        instead of urban centers. So I was was thinking about going with a        dash-mounted GPS, something like a Dynon FlightDek D-180, a radio, a        transponder and then call it a day. 

Thanks in        Advance!



-- 

John Marzulli

http://701Builder.blogspot.com/

	
	
[b]

john.marzulli(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 5:55 pm Post subject: Thoughts on the Garmin 496/396 ?

I think Paul's touched on something.



While not explicitly stated, the heart of the issue is the tremendous change happening with avionics, and that charge is being led by experimentals. Three months ago I thought I would never want to have GPS in my cockpit, but after more x-country trips the idea of the safety margin of having such a device with me is appealing, especially since it seems cheaper to have a nice GPS than two VORs. 



The amount of interaction between the gadgets in our panels is unprecedented.. even the ELT is getting updated.



ADS-B integration is a great idea, and it will get deployed out here first.



 On 8/21/06, Jean-Paul Roy <jean-paul.roy4(at)tlb.sympatico.ca (jean-paul.roy4(at)tlb.sympatico.ca)> wrote:[quote]        Paul, give John a chance of getting good answers to  his question. Starting a new thread i soo easy. Why troubling John's water with  your question?

  

 do not archive

  

 J.P.



 [quote]   ---

dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:43 pm Post subject: Thoughts on the Garmin 496/396 ?

Here's my two cent's worth (probably overpriced).  

  

 I use the Lowrance Airmap 2000C. It costs less than  half what a Garmin 396 does ($999 vs. $2,100+) and has a very large screen with  very bright, no-sweat-daylight-readable color. It has terrain avoidance that  displays your climb angle and ETA to terrain features and radio towers etc. in  its bottom window (as a side view) and the traditional Jeppeson scrolling map in  the upper window. It will plot and display your course to a point dictated by  cursor placemant, or you can pick an airport or any landmark as your  destination. The data base has info on all the airports listed, runway length,  number, services etc. 

  

 It will interface and communicate course and  steering to and auto pilot or wing leveler or in my case to an EFIS/EIS combo  unit to display the navigation info on that screen. It does great in land mode.  I take it along on road trips all the time. It has a fantastic database of gas  stations, restaurants, hotels, tourist's points of interest and  more.

  

 It basically does everything I'm interested in  except the XM radar display. The truth is, I would really love to have that  radar display even just here at my house to decide if I feel like going out to  fly recreationally. In the cockpit on a X-C trip it might just be  priceless. But if you don't think you want to pay for the XM weather info, you  can get pretty much all the features you want on a bigger screen for less than  half the price of a Garmin 396. Nothing at all wrong with Garmin, mind you. It's  just a lot more expensive if you don't need all its features.

  

 It's worth checking out before  deciding,

  

 Ed Moody II

 Rayne, LA

 601XL / 2nd wing

   [quote][b]

JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:21 am Post subject: Thoughts on the Garmin 496/396 ?

Ed, great to hear from you. I have a Garmin 195 that I have been using for many years (since they came out, '98 ?) It is pretty slow and difficult to adjust in the confines of a XL cockpit. Especially I have a hard time pushing buttons at the top of the machine and not be able to see the screen because my big fat hand and arm blocks the view. Does this 2000C GPS you mentioned have a set up so one handed you can push all the buttons and still see the screen as you do ?  I will mount it on a swivel at the front of the console. I am considering up grade to a higher Garmin number, but I also want the correct ergonomics for right handed use. Best regards, Bill of Georgia  [quote][b]

gfmjr_20(at)HOTMAIL.COM
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:38 pm Post subject: Thoughts on the Garmin 496/396 ?

 	  Quote: 	
		  I use the Lowrance Airmap 2000C. It costs less than half what a Garmin 396 

does ($999 vs.


	


I'm with you Ed.  I've been using the Lowrance 2000  for about 100 hours 

flight time in a Kitfox with plenty of cross country.  I find the screen 

very readable in direct sunlight and the latest terain awareness is 

veryhandy. Can't beat the price.  Picked mine up at Sun n Fun a yearago for 

$650.

I've moved it to my 601XL and made a mounting to have it flush to my 601 

panel.



George May

601XL 912s   --painting complete!!



_________________________________________________________________

Call friends with PC-to-PC calling -- FREE   

http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=wlmailtagline

Larry Portouw

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Sierra Vista/Ft. Huachuca, AZ

Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: Thoughts on the Garmin 496/396 ?

Watch out for the XM antenna-- it has a very powerful magnet in it that can cause obvious compass problems, but can also magnetize ferrous parts of the airframe.  A freind of mine had a very bad experience with this is a Mooney when the antenna touched a fuselage tube over the instument panel.  There are instructions for removing the magnet posted on the internet.

_________________
Larry Portouw
601XL Kit (H. Stab) (on hold)
PA-22 N8141C<< This project now taking all my time.
Fort Huachuca, AZ

David X

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 154
Location: Princeton, NJ, USA

Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:02 pm Post subject: Re: Thoughts on the Garmin 496/396 ?

I just completed a 6000 mile adventure from Albany, NY across the divide to Roseburg, OR and back across the divide to Princeton, NJ. I used a Garmin 296; which is basically the same as the 396 and 496 minus a few features. I also use this unit extensively for automobile navigation too. I'm thoroughly satisfied with the unit for VFR flight and for automobile use too.



A word of caution, however, is that one can easily get overly dependant on the GPS and get lazy or lax on good old fashioned navigation skills. The GPS is no substitute for a sectional. It can tell you where the nearest airport is for diversion (a feature I used twice on my adventure) but only tells you field elevation and obstacle data. The geography is fuzzy and there is no topographical detail telling you how high something is.



I would have liked to have had real-time precip and cloud data on that long cross-country ... as I was often 4 hours or more on a single leg. Calling flight service in the air was adequate, but not always available depending on geography and or VOR signal strength etc.



There are also other data features as well that will allow you to drive other equipment (like an autopilot) and integrate into your audio system to give you audio warnings and queues etc. I like the unit so much that I'm going to install a snap-in on the panel with remote antenna and data interface for the unit.

_________________
Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE

john.marzulli(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:17 pm Post subject: Thoughts on the Garmin 496/396 ?

Wow. The fact that the antenna can cause navigation problems for someone trying not use the GPS... that could force you to use the GPS... wow. That is scary.



You may have just convinced me a 296 is the way to go.

 

Thanks!



On 8/22/06, Larry Portouw <Larry(at)portouw.com (Larry(at)portouw.com)> wrote:[quote] --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Portouw" <Larry(at)portouw.com (Larry(at)portouw.com)>



Watch out for the XM antenna-- it has a very powerful magnet in it that can cause obvious compass problems, but can also magnetize ferrous parts of the airframe.  A freind of mine had a very bad experience with this is a Mooney when the antenna touched a fuselage tube over the instument panel.  There are instructions for removing the magnet posted on the internet. 

-- 

John Marzulli

http://701Builder.blogspot.com/



"Flying a plane is no different than riding a bicycle... it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.  [quote][b]

Larry Portouw

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Sierra Vista/Ft. Huachuca, AZ

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 5:06 am Post subject: Re: Thoughts on the Garmin 496/396 ?

No intent to scare you off.  By all accounts, the 496 is a great unit, just be careful where you put the antenna, and what it touches unless you remove the magnet.  

----------------------------

	

PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:17 pm    Post subject: Thoughts on the Garmin 496/396 ? 	Reply with quote

Wow. The fact that the antenna can cause navigation problems for someone trying not use the GPS... that could force you to use the GPS... wow. That is scary.



You may have just convinced me a 296 is the way to go.



Thanks![/quote]

_________________
Larry Portouw
601XL Kit (H. Stab) (on hold)
PA-22 N8141C<< This project now taking all my time.
Fort Huachuca, AZ

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 5:15 am Post subject: Re: Thoughts on the Garmin 496/396 ?

The 496 has done away with the magnet in the antenna. Also there is a thread on the rec.aviation.piloting newsgroup about removing the magnet in the 396.

 	  Larry Portouw wrote: 	
		  Watch out for the XM antenna-- it has a very powerful magnet in it that can cause obvious compass problems, but can also magnetize ferrous parts of the airframe.  A freind of mine had a very bad experience with this is a Mooney when the antenna touched a fuselage tube over the instument panel.  There are instructions for removing the magnet posted on the internet.

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Zenith-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum