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A sleepless night
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jindoguy(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 2:29 am    Post subject: A sleepless night Reply with quote

Kolbers, As some wag once said, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing". There is a lot of confusion about the Sport Pilot Rule among the industry and pilots. Many of you have written of your trip through the process of becoming sport pilots, but I haven't seen a lot about getting your aircraft registered.
The Sport Pilot Rule has a provision for bringing the existing fleet, i.e. all the "fat ultralights" and aircraft that do not meet the requirements of FAR 103, into the U.S. Registry. Simply put, you have until January 31st 2008 to get an airworthiness certificate for your aircraft. After midnight on that date, if you cannot prove that you complied with the rules for experimental amateur built aircraft, you cannot register your aircraft. You will have a very expensive lawn ornament. Before then, you can provide a receipt or fill out a form saying you own the aircraft and the receipt is lost, the appropriate paper work to apply for an "N" number, get the aircraft inspected and a special airworthiness certificate issued and you have yourself a legal E-LSA.
Even if you can prove that you built it and are entitled to register your aircraft as experimental amateur built, there is a very good reason not to. That is that you can teach and rent an E-LSA until January 31st, 2010, you cannot with an experimental amateur built, which makes your aircraft worth more.
Why am I telling you this? Some of you are putting off getting your aircraft finished. If you can, get your aircraft done by July 1st, 2007. This is an arbitrary date I picked out of thin air. I picked it for the reason that there is a big fleet out there and only so many FAA staffers and DAR's to get the job of issuing airworthiness certificates done. July 1st gives you a cushion should you have any glitches in the process or you local DAR is busy and can't get to you.
Obviously I can't predict everything that might cause a glitch in the process, but here is one and it could be a big one. When your DAR comes to inspect your aircraft he should do a conditional inspection equivalent to an annual. Some DAR's are just there to take your money, pencil whip the paperwork and laugh all the way to the bank. You might get this guy, but since by signing off your aircraft he opens himself up to legal liablity, he's an idiot if he doesn't do his job. Personally, I don't want that guy touching any part of any of my airplanes, but that's me. If, however, he is a stand up guy, he will do the inspection by the list contained in 14 CFR 43 Appendix D. One of the requirements is to do an INTERNAL inspection of the wings. I would bet that most of you do not have provisions in your wing covering to do that inspection, I know I don't. Even if he doesn't do his job properly, the first time you need an annual, whether you do it by virtue of having gotten your Repairman Inspector certificate, or you get someone like me with a Repairman Maintenence certificate, the annual must contain the statement, "I certify this aircraft has been inspected in accordance with 14 CFR 43 Appendix D and is in condition for safe operation".
Falsifying aircraft maintenance records is a crime. At the very least the person signing off the annual can lose his ticket. The FAA has said they are going to make examples of those who are caught in violation so they could ask the judge to give the person who certifyed the annual a $10,000 fine and 10 years in jail. I won't make that mistake, would you?
My advice is put in inspection rings when covering, retrofit them during your winter layup, or take a weekend, pull your wings off, get 'er done, and be ready.
You will, of course, do exactly as you please.
--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport.

PS Some of you may find 14 CFR 91.409 (c) which says that light sport is exempt from annuals and 100 hour inspections. The Feds say this exemption is necessary because, unlike those aircraft that are not exempted, light sport is not considered airworthy, but rather in condition for safe operation. They give you an airworthiness certificate, but your aircraft isn't considered airworthy. This came right from Oklahoma City. My instructor called. Go figure.

Rick
[quote][b]


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Ed in JXN



Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 122

PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 10:21 am    Post subject: A sleepless night Reply with quote

Rick,

Simply one of the best posts this year. Excellent! Thanks for the info.

Ed in JXN (MI)
MkII/503
[quote] ---


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John Williamson



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 146
Location: Arlington, TX

PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 10:53 am    Post subject: Re: A sleepless night Reply with quote

Hi All,

"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing".

Clarification is in order here: This statement is not true!

"If, however, he is a stand up guy, he will do the inspection by the list contained in 14 CFR 43 Appendix D. One of the requirements is to do an INTERNAL inspection of the wings."

The Title to FAR Part 43 Appendix D tells you exactly what and when it is used:
"Appendix D to Part 43—Scope and Detail of Items (as Applicable to the Particular Aircraft) To Be Included in Annual and 100-Hour Inspections"

Here is the scope of the inspection as it pertain to the wings:
"(f) Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall inspect (where applicable) all components of the wing and center section assembly for poor general condition, fabric or skin deterioration, distortion, evidence of failure, and insecurity of attachment."

As you can see, there is no reference to "One of the requirements is to do an INTERNAL inspection of the wings."

You as the Manufacturer will be required to make an entry in the log books that the aircraft/engine/propeller are in an "airworthy and safe condition for flight." befoe the inspector will make his entry.

The inspector (FAA/DAR) is only required to inspect the aircraft in so far as to determine it's eligibility for and the issuance of an Experimental Airworthiness Certificate.

Go the regulations and look it up:
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?&c=ecfr&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title14/14tab_02.tpl

The following statement is true but isn't the whole answer:
"Some of you may find 14 CFR 91.409 (c) which says that light sport is exempt from annuals and 100 hour inspections."

The FAA will issue Operating Limitation for Experimental Light Sport and Experimental Amateur Built aircraft. Here is a partial Exerpt of:

" PHASE II Operating Limitations

Following completion of Phase I requirements and a record documenting that completion, the aircraft may be operated in accordance with Phase II of these Operating Limitations.

No person may operate this aircraft for other than the purpose of recreation and education as stated in the program letter for this aircraft. In addition, this aircraft shall be operated in accordance with applicable air traffic and general operating rules of CFR part 91 and all additional limitations prescribed under the provisions of CFR part 91.319(e). These operating limitations are a part of the FAA Form 8130-7, Special Airworthiness Certificate, and are to be carried in the aircraft at all times for availability to the pilot in command of the aircraft.

This aircraft is prohibited from operating in congested airways or over densely populated areas unless directed by Air Traffic Control, or unless sufficient altitude is maintained to effect a safe emergency landing in the event of a power unit failure, without hazard to persons or property on the surface.

After completion of Phase I flight testing, unless appropriately equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance with CFR section 91.205, this aircraft is to be operated under VFR, day only.

No person shall operate this aircraft unless within the preceding twelve (12) calendar months it has had a condition inspection performed in accordance with the scope and detail of appendix D to CFR part 43, or other FAA approved programs, and found to be in a condition for safe operation. This inspection will be recorded in the aircraft maintenance records.

Condition inspections shall be recorded in the aircraft maintenance records showing the following or a similarly worded statement: "I certify that this aircraft has been inspected on (insert date) in accordance with the scope and detail of appendix D to CFR part 43, or other FAA-approved programs and found to be in a condition for safe operation," The entry will include the aircraft total time in service, and the name, signature, certificate number, and type of certificate held by the person performing the inspection."

* * * * * *

This is where the condition inspection will be spelled out and also tell you that your "aircraft shall be operated in accordance with applicable air traffic and general operating rules of CFR part 91 and all additional limitations prescribed under the provisions of CFR part 91.319(e)."

The Certification and Operating Limitations process can be found in:
FAA Order 8130.2F w/Change 2 (7/10/2006) which can can be found at this link:
http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/light_sport/

Well, if you made to here, Thank You. Remenber that all our advise is worth the paper we are writing on.


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John Williamson
Arlington, TX

Kolbra, 912ULS, 1640 hours
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Roger Lee



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 10:58 am    Post subject: Re: A sleepless night Reply with quote

Hi All,

I registered my Kolb Mark III ELSA last year and got my LSA lic. I did not think that getting the LSA lic. was difficult. I got the Gliem self study program of books and CD. Studied for 2 months while I flew with the CFI for my hours and took the written. The test of 40 questions was quite easy except for two out in left field questions that no one seemed to know.
The FAA LSA was a little different as they didn't really know themselves what was going on. One guy had me fill out amateur built papers and then the FAA wanted more info. Everytime you send them something it seems to take 3 weeks to get something back. I talked to the main honcho at the FAA for LSA and he explained everything. Then I had to call the FAA people that were handling my file and explain it to them. After I filled out the correct paperwork I had my ELSA paper work from FAA in a couple of days. Then there was nobody in Az. that inspected LSA aircraft so I brought in John Shablow out of Calif. He was great. You also have to option of going SLSA which would allow you to train or rent your craft. The main difference is SLSA has to have an A/P or equivilent for inspections and to preform work on your craft. If you rent it or train in it you have to include 100 hr. inspections. I went ELSA so I can do all my own maintenance and I took the "Condition of Inspection" class and now I can do my own inspections. If you buy an SLSA you can bust it back to ELSA and then you can do your own work again, but you can not ever take it back to SLSA.


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Light Sport Repairman
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:07 pm    Post subject: A sleepless night Reply with quote

Good letter John. Did my eyes glaze over before the end?
...well, yeah, but there was some useful stuff there.

Subject: inspection covers. I have covered a few wings in my
lifetime and most general av planes have internal bellcranks, etc.
that make a tight wing impossible and also require access for
inspection, oiling, or repair of same mechanicals.

The Kolb is a breed apart with zero stuff moving about inside.
I elected to close it up forever or until something falls apart,
whichever comes first. No bees, chipmunks, hickory nuts, wood spars,
levers
and rods to worry about. It might even float!

Love it.
BB do not archive

On 26, Aug 2006, at 2:53 PM, John Williamson wrote:

Quote:

<kolbrapilot1(at)comcast.net>

Hi All,

"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing".

Clarification is in order here: This statement is not true!

"If, however, he is a stand up guy, he will do the inspection by the
list contained in 14 CFR 43 Appendix D. One of the requirements is to
do an INTERNAL inspection of the wings."

The Title to FAR Part 43 Appendix D tells you exactly what and when it
is used:
"Appendix D to Part 43—Scope and Detail of Items (as Applicable to
the Particular Aircraft) To Be Included in Annual and 100-Hour
Inspections"

Here is the scope of the inspection as it pertain to the wings:
"(f) Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall
inspect (where applicable) all components of the wing and center
section assembly for poor general condition, fabric or skin
deterioration, distortion, evidence of failure, and insecurity of
attachment."

As you can see, there is no reference to "One of the requirements is
to do an INTERNAL inspection of the wings."

You as the Manufacturer will be required to make an entry in the log
books that the aircraft/engine/propeller are in an "airworthy and safe
condition for flight." befoe the inspector will make his entry.

The inspector (FAA/DAR) is only required to inspect the aircraft in so
far as to determine it's eligibility for and the issuance of an
Experimental Airworthiness Certificate.

Go the regulations and look it up:
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?&c=ecfr&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/
Title14/14tab_02.tpl

The following statement is true but isn't the whole answer:
"Some of you may find 14 CFR 91.409 (c) which says that light sport is
exempt from annuals and 100 hour inspections."

The FAA will issue Operating Limitation for Experimental Light Sport
and Experimental Amateur Built aircraft. Here is a partial Exerpt of:

" PHASE II Operating Limitations

Following completion of Phase I requirements and a record documenting
that completion, the aircraft may be operated in accordance with Phase
II of these Operating Limitations.

No person may operate this aircraft for other than the purpose of
recreation and education as stated in the program letter for this
aircraft. In addition, this aircraft shall be operated in accordance
with applicable air traffic and general operating rules of CFR part 91
and all additional limitations prescribed under the provisions of CFR
part 91.319(e). These operating limitations are a part of the FAA Form
8130-7, Special Airworthiness Certificate, and are to be carried in
the aircraft at all times for availability to the pilot in command of
the aircraft.

This aircraft is prohibited from operating in congested airways or
over densely populated areas unless directed by Air Traffic Control,
or unless sufficient altitude is maintained to effect a safe emergency
landing in the event of a power unit failure, without hazard to
persons or property on the surface.

After completion of Phase I flight testing, unless appropriately
equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance with CFR
section 91.205, this aircraft is to be operated under VFR, day only.

No person shall operate this aircraft unless within the preceding
twelve (12) calendar months it has had a condition inspection
performed in accordance with the scope and detail of appendix D to CFR
part 43, or other FAA approved programs, and found to be in a
condition for safe operation. This inspection will be recorded in the
aircraft maintenance records.

Condition inspections shall be recorded in the aircraft maintenance
records showing the following or a similarly worded statement: "I
certify that this aircraft has been inspected on (insert date) in
accordance with the scope and detail of appendix D to CFR part 43, or
other FAA-approved programs and found to be in a condition for safe
operation," The entry will include the aircraft total time in service,
and the name, signature, certificate number, and type of certificate
held by the person performing the inspection."

* * * * * *

This is where the condition inspection will be spelled out and also
tell you that your "aircraft shall be operated in accordance with
applicable air traffic and general operating rules of CFR part 91 and
all additional limitations prescribed under the provisions of CFR part
91.319(e)."

The Certification and Operating Limitations process can be found in:
FAA Order 8130.2F w/Change 2 (7/10/2006) which can can be found at
this link:
http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/light_sport/

Well, if you made to here, Thank You. Remenber that all our advise is
worth the paper we are writing on.

--------
John Williamson
Arlington, TX

Kolbra, 912ULS
http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot1


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Thom Riddle



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 3:28 am    Post subject: Re: A sleepless night Reply with quote

Roger,

You are mistaken about the SLSA "option".

A home builder does NOT have an option of seeking a S-LSA airworthiness certificate for an airplane he built. The S-LSA a/w certificate is for those aircraft meeting the LSA criteria, and built by a FACTORY that has had this model aircraft approved by the FAA for this Special Light Sport Aircraft category. Home builders, whether they build 90% or 1 % of the aircraft do not have this option. For the current list of Approved S-LSA Factory Built Airplanes, see the EAA's Sportpilot.org website.

do not archive


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Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)



Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous
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Denny Rowe



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 89
Location: Leechburg, PA

PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 5:11 am    Post subject: A sleepless night Reply with quote

Rick,
I forgot in my last reply to tell you I am looking forward to hearing how
your bird performs with this combo.
Have fun and fly safe.

Denny
---


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Denny Rowe



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 89
Location: Leechburg, PA

PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:52 am    Post subject: A sleepless night Reply with quote

Whoops,
Looks like I replied to the wrong message on that last post, these 80 hr
work weeks are killing me.

Denny Rowe
do not archive


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:48 am    Post subject: A sleepless night Reply with quote

John you're trying to seperate the fly poop from the pepper, IMHO. What part of "all components" exempts the internal parts of the wing? You are right only on the point that I meant to say "in essence" before stating an internal inspection is required. If it weren't required, do you think Cessna, Piper, Aeronca, or any manufacturer would put inspection hatches on the wings?
Go read Appendix D again starting from the beginning.
(a) Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall, before that inspection, remove or open all necessary inspection plates, access doors, fairing, and cowling. He shall thoroughly clean the aircraft and aircraft engine.
(b) Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall inspect (where applicable) the following components of the fuselage and hull group: Inspect does not mean take glance and write a sentence in the logs, it means inspect. To drive the point home the feds give you AC 43-13.1b so you have a reference for the acceptable techniques of building, what to look for when inspecting, and how to correct an unacceptable condition.

Then go back and look at 43.15
(a) General. Each person performing an inspection required by part 91, 125, or 135 of this chapter, shall—
(1) Perform the inspection so as to determine whether the aircraft, or portion(s) thereof under inspection, meets all applicable airworthiness requirements;
and then to drive the point home that the inspection is thorough: (c) Annual and 100-hour inspections. (1) Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall use a checklist while performing the inspection. The checklist may be of the person's own design, one provided by the manufacturer of the equipment being inspected or one obtained from another source. This checklist must include the scope and detail of the items contained in appendix D to this part and paragraph (b) of this section.

Those shalls and musts mean exactly what they say, it's not optional. You don't get to say I forgot, I missed it, or Oops.

John, I think we're really on the same page here, and you're holding my feet to the fire because I made an absolute statement about the regs when, as I said, I should have added that, "in essence" to make it clear that this is the intent although it doesn't say this exact wording.

John, just so there's no misunderstanding between us, I really appreciate you holding me accountable. The guys (and gals, for the PC crowd) on this list deserve the correct information.

Rick
On 8/26/06, John Williamson <kolbrapilot1(at)comcast.net (kolbrapilot1(at)comcast.net)> wrote:
Quote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Williamson" <kolbrapilot1(at)comcast.net (kolbrapilot1(at)comcast.net)>

Hi All,

"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing".

Clarification is in order here: This statement is not true!

"If, however, he is a stand up guy, he will do the inspection by the list contained in 14 CFR 43 Appendix D. One of the requirements is to do an INTERNAL inspection of the wings."

The Title to FAR Part 43 Appendix D tells you exactly what and when it is used:
"Appendix D to Part 43—Scope and Detail of Items (as Applicable to the Particular Aircraft) To Be Included in Annual and 100-Hour Inspections"

Here is the scope of the inspection as it pertain to the wings:
"(f) Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall inspect (where applicable) all components of the wing and center section assembly for poor general condition, fabric or skin deterioration, distortion, evidence of failure, and insecurity of attachment."

As you can see, there is no reference to "One of the requirements is to do an INTERNAL inspection of the wings."

You as the Manufacturer will be required to make an entry in the log books that the aircraft/engine/propeller are in an "airworthy and safe condition for flight." befoe the inspector will make his entry.

The inspector (FAA/DAR) is only required to inspect the aircraft in so far as to determine it's eligibility for and the issuance of an Experimental Airworthiness Certificate.

Go the regulations and look it up:
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?&c=ecfr&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title14/14tab_02.tpl

The following statement is true but isn't the whole answer:
"Some of you may find 14 CFR 91.409 (c) which says that light sport is exempt from annuals and 100 hour inspections."

The FAA will issue Operating Limitation for Experimental Light Sport and Experimental Amateur Built aircraft. Here is a partial Exerpt of:

" PHASE II Operating Limitations

Following completion of Phase I requirements and a record documenting that completion, the aircraft may be operated in accordance with Phase II of these Operating Limitations.

No person may operate this aircraft for other than the purpose of recreation and education as stated in the program letter for this aircraft.  In addition, this aircraft shall be operated in accordance with applicable air traffic and general operating rules of CFR part 91 and all additional limitations prescribed under the provisions of CFR part 91.319(e). These operating limitations are a part of the FAA Form 8130-7, Special Airworthiness Certificate, and are to be carried in the aircraft at all times for availability to the pilot in command of the aircraft.

This aircraft is prohibited from operating in congested airways or over densely populated areas unless directed by Air Traffic Control, or unless sufficient altitude is maintained to effect a safe emergency landing in the event of a power unit failure, without hazard to persons or property on the surface.

After completion of Phase I flight testing, unless appropriately equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance with CFR section 91.205, this aircraft is to be operated under VFR, day only.

No person shall operate this aircraft unless within the preceding twelve (12) calendar months it has had a condition inspection performed in accordance with the scope and detail of appendix D to CFR part 43, or other FAA approved programs, and found to be in a condition for safe operation. This inspection will be recorded in the aircraft maintenance records.

Condition inspections shall be recorded in the aircraft maintenance records showing the following or a similarly worded statement: "I certify that this aircraft has been inspected on (insert date) in accordance with the scope and detail of appendix D to CFR part 43, or other FAA-approved programs and found to be in a condition for safe operation," The entry will include the aircraft total time in service, and the name, signature, certificate number, and type of certificate held by the person performing the inspection."

* * * * * *

This is where the condition inspection will be spelled out and also tell you that your "aircraft shall be operated in accordance with applicable air traffic and general operating rules of CFR part 91 and all additional limitations prescribed under the provisions of CFR part 91.319(e)."

The Certification and Operating Limitations process can be found in:
FAA Order 8130.2F w/Change 2 (7/10/2006) which can can be found at this link:
http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/light_sport/

Well, if you made to here, Thank You. Remenber that all our advise is worth the paper we are writing on.

--------
John Williamson
Arlington, TX

Kolbra, 912ULS
http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot1


Read this topic onlin74#57574"> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57574#57574
content now also available via the Web Forums! sp; mail List Wiki! sp; - List Cont! &nb========================


--
Rick Girard
"Ya'll drop on in"
takes on a whole new meaning
when you live at the airport. [quote][b]


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 11:03 am    Post subject: A sleepless night Reply with quote

Roger, The only way you can get S-LSA certification is if the kit you built has been certificated through the process established by ASTM committee F37. There are no qualifying kits at this time from anyone.
Even if you took this option with a qualifying kit, you must then build the kit and equip it EXACTLY as specified by the kit manufacturer. If you change anything your airworthiness certificate is null and void (CFR 21.181). To do a change and keep your airworthiness certificate you would have to get a letter of authorization from the manufacturer for that change (or each change if you made more than one) and it would be airframe specific, i.e. it would list the N number of you aircraft and is good ONLY for that aircraft.

Rick

On 8/26/06, Roger Lee < ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
Quote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Roger Lee" < ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com (ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com)>

Hi All,

I registered my Kolb Mark III ELSA last year and got my LSA lic. I did not think that getting the LSA lic. was difficult. I got the Gliem self study program of books and CD. Studied for 2 months while I flew with the CFI for my hours and took the written. The test of 40 questions was quite easy except for two out in left field questions that no one seemed to know.
The FAA LSA was a little different as they didn't really know themselves what was going on. One guy had me fill out amateur built papers and then the FAA wanted more info. Everytime you send them something it seems to take 3 weeks to get something back. I talked to the main honcho at the FAA for LSA and he explained everything. Then I had to call the FAA people that were handling my file and explain it to them. After I filled out the correct paperwork I had my ELSA paper work from FAA in a couple of days. Then there was nobody in Az. that inspected LSA aircraft so I brought in John Shablow out of Calif. He was great. You also have to option of going SLSA which would allow you to train or rent your craft. The main difference is SLSA has to have an A/P or equivilent for inspections and to preform work on your craft. If you rent it or train in it you have to include 100 hr. inspections. I went ELSA so I can do all my own maintenance and I took the "Condition of Inspection" clas!
s and now I can do my own inspections. If you buy an SLSA you can bust it back to ELSA and then you can do your own work again, but you can not ever take it back to SLSA.

--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.


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Roger Lee



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 12:27 pm    Post subject: Re: A sleepless night Reply with quote

My error. I guess Mr. Shablow was mistaken and then I have mispoke.

Sorry about that.


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John Williamson



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:59 pm    Post subject: Re: A sleepless night Reply with quote

Rick and All,

My last words on this subject:

"What part of "all components" exempts the internal parts of the wing?"
Well it seems you want to skip the very important words: "(where applicable)" that are in the same sentence.
"You are right only on the point that I meant to say "in essence" before stating an internal inspection is required. If it weren't required, do you think Cessna, Piper, Aeronca, or any manufacturer would put inspection hatches on the wings?"
We don't interpret the FAR's, we do what they require by the words present. We don't have to guess what the intent was.

"Go read Appendix D again starting from the beginning.
(a) Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall, before that inspection, remove or open all necessary inspection plates, access doors, fairing, and cowling. He shall thoroughly clean the aircraft and aircraft engine.
(b) Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall inspect (where applicable) the following components of the fuselage and hull group: Inspect does not mean take glance and write a sentence in the logs, it means inspect."
Again, there is only the requirement to "remove or open all necessary inspection plates". We as the manufacturer determine what access is required to comply with the letter of the FAR.

"To drive the point home the feds give you AC 43-13.1b so you have a reference for the acceptable techniques of building, what to look for when inspecting, and how to correct an unacceptable condition."
AC 43-13.1b is Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices--Aircraft Inspection and Repair" , not for "acceptable techniques of building" as you stated.

"Then go back and look at 43.15"
No need to go to that section of the FAR if "Experimental" is on the Airworthiness Certificate and Operating Limitaions" since they say that I have to do the condition inspection IAW Appendix D Part 43. Nowhere else will it say that any other part of Part 43 applies to "Experimental" aircraft.

"Those shalls and musts mean exactly what they say, it's not optional. You don't get to say I forgot, I missed it, or Oops."
This is very true and if this discussion does nothing but get a couple more people to read the Regs, then it has not been for nothing.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:47 pm    Post subject: A sleepless night Reply with quote

My Kolb Mark3 has the Kolb amphib floats and I'm a very big guy so I will
need all the power I can get.Will be a single place I'm pretty sure.
---


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:47 am    Post subject: E-LSA kits Reply with quote

I changed the topic name to reflect this subject.

Rick,

... There are no qualifying kits at this time from anyone....

Actually, there are. I am now flying an Allegro 2000 S-LSA (factory built) and Fantasy Air is selling Allegro 2000 E-LSA kits as well as ready-to-fly (RTF). I know of several now building them. I know that the Zlin Savage (J-3 knock-off) which is S-LSA approved is also selling E-LSA kits up to 99% complete. There may be others.

do not archive


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:54 am    Post subject: A sleepless night Reply with quote

Thom, we're in a semantics loop here. I repeat, there are no kits available at this time that qualify as an S-LSA. Until January 31st 2008 you can go buy an S-LSA and put it in the E-LSA category. You'd be losing about $25K for the effort, so it seems to be a bad idea to me, but as my dear Grandma always told me, "it takes all kinds to make a world"

Rick

On 8/28/06, Thom Riddle <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net (jtriddle(at)adelphia.net)> wrote:
Quote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <jtriddle(at)adelphia.net (jtriddle(at)adelphia.net)>

I changed the topic name to reflect this subject.

Rick,

... There are no qualifying kits at this time from anyone....

Actually, there are. I am now flying an Allegro 2000 S-LSA (factory built) and Fantasy Air is selling Allegro 2000 E-LSA kits as well as ready-to-fly (RTF). I know of several now building them. I know that the Zlin Savage (J-3 knock-off) which is S-LSA approved is also selling E-LSA kits up to 99% complete. There may be others. http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57923#57923 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List




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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:59 am    Post subject: A sleepless night Reply with quote

John, Appendix D applies to ALL aircraft that require annual and 100 hour
inspections. The "where applicable" means if it ain't got a wing, i.e. a
rotorcraft.

Rick

On 8/27/06, Rick Pearce <rap(at)isp.com> wrote:
[quote]


My Kolb Mark3 has the Kolb amphib floats and I'm a very big guy so I will
need all the power I can get.Will be a single place I'm pretty sure.
---


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:28 am    Post subject: Re: A sleepless night Reply with quote

Rick,

Semantics is right, but since misunderstanding about this subject is so widespread, including or perhaps especially, within the FAA FSDOs, it bears clarifying anyway we can.

There will never be an S-LSA kit unless they change the rules. The kit versions of S-LSA approved models, where an owner does any part of the build must be certificated as E-LSA if the builder contribution is less than 51% of the effort. If the builder contributes 51% or more of the effort and he can document it, it can be registered as an experimental amateur-built like Kolbs or as an E-LSA at the builder's discretion. My point was that some of the S-LSA factories are selling ready-to-fly ONLY and some are selling both RTF and kits. I just mentioned two that I know of that are selling E-LSA kits.

FWIW, we bought our 2 year old Allegro 2000 S-LSA from a dealer who was using it as a demo plane. It had 270 hours on it and that saved us a bunch of money vs. new factory built, or an E-LSA kit for that matter. One of my partners is an A&P IA so we can do all the work including inspections. It now has about 423 hours and counting. If weather permits, Bob Bean (MkIII - Geo) and I will be flying the Allegro down to the TNK event on Sept. 23. Hope to meet some of you there.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:50 pm    Post subject: A sleepless night Reply with quote

The Kolb is a breed apart with zero stuff moving about inside.I elected to
close it up forever or until something falls apart.

Hi Robert,
I did that with my Challenger for the same reason but the Inspector made me
cut inspection holes just the same. I suppose it would be a good thing to
find corrosion before the wing drops off.

Pat

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:51 pm    Post subject: SLSA to ELSA Reply with quote

Hi Rick,

Why would someone lose $25k for switching form SLSA to ELSA?
The only thing I can think of off hand is that you would not be able to use it as a trainer, but wouldn't you be able to do your own work and inspections?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:26 pm    Post subject: SLSA to ELSA Reply with quote

Just got off the phone to EAA. Other than not being able to train in the plane or rent it out then there should not be any drawbacks. 95% people are recreational flyers and not trainers anyway. Another interesting note from them was, as the Regulations stand right now, if you did go back to ELSA from SLSA then you could do your "Condition of Safe Operation" inspection, but at this time could not do your own work. They said that was an FAA goof. They are in the process of trying to get that changed so you can do your own work. They also said that if you go back to ELSA then you would remove some of the restrictions that a company might have put on as an SLSA. Case in point, I just bought a Flight Design CT and they said not to fly at night, but if I take the plane back to ELSA then I can legally fly at night if the plane is equiped with lights and the pilot holds a private ticket.

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