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Guy Buchanan
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA
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 Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 4:30 pm Post subject: 582 RPM Variation |
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I've got a 582 that likes to wander +/- 100-200 RPM when cruising at 5800.
(Actually, pretty much anytime.) It appears to be more than just prop
loading, as I have to chase it with the throttle, and not just the
elevator. Any ideas?
Thanks,
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
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Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too. |
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smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
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| Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:03 pm Post subject: 582 RPM Variation |
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Make sure you don't have a slipping clutch like Don S.
had a while back. His was worse, but yours could be
just starting.
Next guess is a lose timing adjustment. My old 2
cycle would handle a mixture problem better than a
timing problem.
Just some guesses to start with.
Kurt S.
--- Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com> wrote:
| Quote: | I've got a 582 that likes to wander +/- 100-200 RPM
when cruising at 5800.
(Actually, pretty much anytime.) It appears to be
more than just prop
loading, as I have to chase it with the throttle,
and not just the
elevator. Any ideas?
Thanks,
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly
to Bob Ducar.
|
__________________________________________________
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Guy Buchanan
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:51 pm Post subject: 582 RPM Variation |
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At 06:02 PM 9/9/2006, you wrote:
| Quote: | Make sure you don't have a slipping clutch like Don S.
had a while back. His was worse, but yours could be
just starting.
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Any idea how you check this?
| Quote: | Next guess is a lose timing adjustment. My old 2
cycle would handle a mixture problem better than a
timing problem.
|
I assume you mean that the pick-ups are loose on their screws. I have to
pull the back of the engine apart to look at these, don't I?
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
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_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too. |
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dosmythe(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 3:36 am Post subject: 582 RPM Variation |
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| Quote: | >Make sure you don't have a slipping clutch like Don S.
>had a while back. His was worse, but yours could be
>just starting.
Any idea how you check this?
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Guy,
You need to pull the front cover off the "C" box (have new gasket
ready). There is a large nut in there that holds a cone shaped sleeve on a
shaft. Remove the nut and examine the sleeve for any signs of slipping
(scoring). Once you've done that, degrease it all and reassemble with a
special locktite and retorque nut to 250 ft lbs. (I think). There is a
Rotax bulletin that covers all this. My hardest part was finding a torque
wrench that would do 250 ft lbs. That was quite a hoss.
I always referred to my problem as "surging". What was happening was, I
would get up to about 4500 RPM's and the sleeve would slip. That caused the
prop to unload and the engine would rev to the outer limits. As soon as
this would happen, there would be a great amount of heat developed in the
sleeve and it would seize then the prop would be back in the picture and
RPM's would settle out. It was intermittent and in short burst. Appeared
to be surging.
Having said all that, I always have to stay on the throttle to maintain
my RPM's. I think a lot of it is just the way it is on a 582.
Don Smythe
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torgemor(at)online.no
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| Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 3:38 am Post subject: 582 RPM Variation |
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Hi Guy,
Yes you have to pull the aft. part of the engine to check this, however,
there is more to be checked before removing the engine.
Will the engine do the same at 5400 RPM, and at 6200 RPM?? If the
ignition "pick up" plate is become loose, this RPM fluctuating will occurs
(more or less) in the whole operating band.
Also, -since your AC is relatively new, is this something that shows up
all that sudden, or is this a problem that's been there since day one?
Just as an example, a fluctuating pressure inside the cowl can create
engine rpm changes, but rarely happen.
The carb. cross venting etc.
Try to isolate if this is fuel, ignition or prop. releated.
Good luck.
Torgeir.
On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 05:51:06 +0200, Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
At 06:02 PM 9/9/2006, you wrote:
> Make sure you don't have a slipping clutch like Don S.
> had a while back. His was worse, but yours could be
> just starting.
Any idea how you check this?
> Next guess is a lose timing adjustment. My old 2
> cycle would handle a mixture problem better than a
> timing problem.
I assume you mean that the pick-ups are loose on their screws. I have to
pull the back of the engine apart to look at these, don't I?
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
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--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
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Guy Buchanan
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 8:12 pm Post subject: 582 RPM Variation |
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At 04:35 AM 9/10/2006, you wrote:
| Quote: | I always referred to my problem as "surging". What was happening was, I
would get up to about 4500 RPM's and the sleeve would slip. That caused the
prop to unload and the engine would rev to the outer limits. As soon as
this would happen, there would be a great amount of heat developed in the
sleeve and it would seize then the prop would be back in the picture and
RPM's would settle out. It was intermittent and in short burst. Appeared
to be surging.
|
Thanks Don. This is definitely not my problem. My RPM's just seem to
wander. Also Bob Robertson torqued the C-box when he put on the clutch and
broke in the motor. I'm sure he got it right.
Thanks anyway, though, as it's good information.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
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_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too. |
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Guy Buchanan
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 8:12 pm Post subject: 582 RPM Variation |
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At 04:39 AM 9/10/2006, you wrote:
| Quote: | Will the engine do the same at 5400 RPM, and at 6200 RPM?? If the
ignition "pick up" plate is become loose, this RPM fluctuating will occurs
(more or less) in the whole operating band.
|
I think it's everywhere.
| Quote: | Also, -since your AC is relatively new, is this something that shows up
all that sudden, or is this a problem that's been there since day one?
|
I never notice a change. I think it's operated the same since I first
started it.
| Quote: | Try to isolate if this is fuel, ignition or prop. releated.
|
I will. Thanks Torgeir.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too. |
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| Back to top |
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Fox5flyer
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:33 am Post subject: 582 RPM Variation |
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Even though the 582 is a fairly high power to weight engine, because of its
small mass the inertia is fairly low which can cause the engine rpm to
wander around a bit, especially in turbulence when going through thermally
weather. Mine did it and I think they probably all do. In smooth and calm
air it probably should be fairly steady though.
Deke
---
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Guy Buchanan
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:27 am Post subject: 582 RPM Variation |
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At 04:59 AM 9/11/2006, you wrote:
| Quote: | I have always had to "fly" my rpm too.
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Thanks Larry. I went out this morning at daybreak to get some testing done
before the thermals and found I was able maintain a fairly steady RPM. It's
an interesting phenomenon, one I never noticed in the Cessna, though you
may be right about the precision of digital gauges showing it more.
I think I had my first real "Kitfox" flight today. I spent an hour or so
doing timed climbs for calculating ROC and then checking my ASI against the
GPS to put together a CAS spreadsheet. When I got done it was so nice out
that I decided I needed to just putt around a little. I slowed it down,
opened the pilot's door, set it up for about 55 MIAS, and took in the
sites. (I was cruising around at about 2500 AGL since I was above our class
D airport.) What a hoot! (It took my sphincter a while to relax with the
door open!) Once settled I wandered around my home territory discovering
new ranches, taking pictures of our's and friend's houses, and generally
having a great time. It makes me glad I bought a Kitfox.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too. |
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