Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Guy -- 582 numbers

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kitfox-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:50 pm Post subject: Guy -- 582 numbers

After many hours of ag flying in heavy tail daggers, I found (and with my 

Serries 5) ease the tail up just a little when it's ready then slight back 

pressure and as soon as the tail doesn't lower with the back pressure it's 

ready to fly. Once airbourne, hold it down until the speed builds to vy..





From:  Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com>

Reply-To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject:  Re: Guy -- 582 numbers

Date:  Sun, 01 Oct 2006 21:55:43 -0700




At 07:04 PM 10/1/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Were you able to get your off the ground better now ?


	


Right now I'm doing gross weight testing. My passenger is three bags of 

Red-E-Crete, 180 pounds and a bit lumpy, but very quiet. I estimate I'm 

between 1150 and 1200 pounds. At that my takeoffs are between 700-1000'. 

(Hot day, no wind.) I'll know more about rate of climb tomorrow when I 

reduce the data from the testing I did yesterday. I did find that my stall 

speeds increased to 45mph indicated clean and 41 dirty. Power on was 40 and 

31, respectively.



I've used two techniques to take-off. The way I was taught was to lift the 

tail and hold it up to liftoff speed,in my case about 50 mph, (10 over 

stall,) and then fly away. I also picked up, from where I can't remember, 

the idea of flying away from a three point. The latter takeoff is much 

shorter, but much more exciting, as it puts you in the air right at stall 

speed and you can get some "interesting" results on a gusty day. What are 

you doing, Dave, to get your short takeoffs?

Guy Buchanan

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.





_________________________________________________________________

Find the coolest online games (at) http://xtramsn.co.nz/gaming

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:16 pm Post subject: Guy -- 582 numbers

Guy,



 I forgot to ask,  is this a speedwing? If so that would explain a bit.



We got together 2 Kitofxes and an Avid today for some videos.

I will try to get a few clips together.  That being said I thought about you 

when i did takeoff today with zero wind and stick neutral and it flew off 

the ground in about 200 to 250 feet. solo and  by the time Iwas down the 

runway 1000 feet i was over 200 AGL already.  Plane was about 850 lb take 

off weight with me  solo.

 Unforutnaly I will not be able to do it till next week unless i hit the 

Midnight video centre tonight .



Dave

---

_________________
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/user/kitfoxflyer
Hundreds of Kitfox Movies
Most viewed Kitfox on youtube
Most popular on youtube
Highest rated on youtube

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:52 pm Post subject: Guy -- 582 numbers

Dave,



The models I through III had an undercambered wing.  All models IV through 

Series 7 use the same airfoil.  I guess in Avid parlence, the latter wouild 

be considered  "Speedwings", although there is no designation as such in the 

Kitfox vernacular.



I scanned past posts and can't determine what you are flying.



Lowell



---

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:06 pm Post subject: Guy -- 582 numbers

Lowell,

Yes   Mine is a 582  IV       TO roll about 250 or less

We had a Kitfox 1   with 503       "  "      "           "

and a Avid Heavy hauler 618    TO Roll about 400 feet.



The latter two have the undercambered wing bit I will say the Avid Take off 

roll is about 400 feet BUT it climbs extremely well once it off the ground.

. He has no VSI and if I climb at 1200 to 1400  fpm he is going up faster 

rate then me. But the Avid is a few feet  narrow wingspan than a Kitfor and 

the chord and wing area I am not sure.



Point is 3 planes all getting off  the terra firma  in decent time.

Dave

---

Malcolmbru(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:54 pm Post subject: Guy -- 582 numbers

[quote][b]

roncarolnikko(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:23 pm Post subject: Guy -- 582 numbers

Guy I hope you have your "passenger" seat belted in well.  I had 5 50lb bags 

in my Avid to get gross.  Stalls were exciting with the load.  Ron NB Ore

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com>

Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Guy -- 582  numbers

Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 21:55:43 -0700

At 07:04 PM 10/1/2006, you wrote:

>Were you able to get your off the ground better now ?

Right now I'm doing gross weight testing. My passenger is three bags of 

Red-E-Crete, 180 pounds and a bit lumpy, but very quiet. I estimate I'm 

between 1150 and 1200 pounds. At that my takeoffs are between 700-1000'. 

(Hot day, no wind.) I'll know more about rate of climb tomorrow when I 

reduce the data from the testing I did yesterday. I did find that my stall 

speeds increased to 45mph indicated clean and 41 dirty. Power on was 40 and 

31, respectively.

I've used two techniques to take-off. The way I was taught was to lift the 

tail and hold it up to liftoff speed,in my case about 50 mph, (10 over 

stall,) and then fly away. I also picked up, from where I can't remember, 

the idea of flying away from a three point. The latter takeoff is much 

shorter, but much more exciting, as it puts you in the air right at stall 

speed and you can get some "interesting" results on a gusty day. What are 

you doing, Dave, to get your short takeoffs?

Guy Buchanan

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________________________________________________________

Get today's hot entertainment gossip  http://movies.msn.com/movies/hotgossip

roncarolnikko(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:34 pm Post subject: Guy -- 582 numbers

Lowell I think I've heard the term Riblett airfoil for the latter style.  

Ron NB Ore (Speedster)

[quote]From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net>

Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To: <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Guy -- 582 numbers

Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 14:51:06 -0700






Dave,



The models I through III had an undercambered wing.  All models IV through 

Series 7 use the same airfoil.  I guess in Avid parlence, the latter wouild 

be considered  "Speedwings", although there is no designation as such in 

the Kitfox vernacular.



I scanned past posts and can't determine what you are flying.



Lowell



---

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:18 am Post subject: Guy -- 582 numbers

At 08:22 PM 10/2/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Guy I hope you have your "passenger" seat belted in well.


	


Not near well enough! I did stalls, but I won't do spins or accelerated 

stalls with him in!

Guy Buchanan

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.



Do not archive

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:18 am Post subject: Guy -- 582 numbers

At 02:15 PM 10/2/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I forgot to ask,  is this a speedwing? If so that would explain a bit.


	


Well, it's a IV, so it has the flat bottom wing. But it's not a Speedster 

and so has the long wing, which should be good for take-off distance. 

Yesterday I took off at 1175# at 1500' and 70F and it took about 600'.

Guy Buchanan

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:19 am Post subject: Guy -- 582 numbers

At 01:49 PM 10/2/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  After many hours of ag flying in heavy tail daggers, I found (and with my

Serries 5) ease the tail up just a little when it's ready then slight back

pressure and as soon as the tail doesn't lower with the back pressure it's

ready to fly. Once airbourne, hold it down until the speed builds to vy..


	


Thanks John. I've tried this and the only problem I have with it is that 

I'm airborne very close to stall speed. Once I had the aircraft settle back 

to the runway after it lifted off during a gust. I basically had to 

three-point a landing while taking off; very disconcerting. Am I holding 

the tail too low?

Guy Buchanan

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:33 am Post subject: Guy -- 582 numbers

Guy,  Well  600 feet is better than your  900 feet results but you got 

something seriously wrong to not be flying  sooner.

I have got some vidoes I am working on for you to show you how it should 

work.



I tried yesterday taking off with stick neutral and it flew off in 3 point 

configuration at about 40 IAS  in under 250 feet  solo  955  ASL .

Have you tried it this way ?   And what prop are you using and what static 

RPM do you get ?

Dave

---

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:06 am Post subject: Guy -- 582 numbers

At 08:33 AM 10/3/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Have you tried it this way ?   And what prop are you using and what static

RPM do you get ?


	


Yes, the 600' was three-point, though at 1175# and 70F. I have a 70" Warp 

three blade set to 12 degrees at the tip and get about 6350 static. (I get 

about 6700 WOT level airborne at 6400' DA.) I am worried that the 70" is 

too large and is reducing my top speed, but I have to find some propeller 

software to evaluate the possibility of trimming it.

Guy Buchanan

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:55 am Post subject: Guy -- 582 numbers

Sounds good Guy,



I have a 68 inch warp 3 blade  --ratio is 3 to 1   and static i am about 

6100  and 6800  wot

cruise 88- 89   mph via gps  ( asi reads about 105  or so  lol   - no 

external static port)



Check back soon, I just putting  together some movie clips now ........... 

and I will upload to a server  soon



Dave

---

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:10 am Post subject: Guy -- 582 numbers

OK first plane is a Kitfox IV    582

Second one is  a Raven  --aka Kitfox 1 clone    503 single carb

Third one is a Avid flyer   618



Sorry for the quality but it gives you an indication of the Take offs , we 

did these for you so you can see that 600 foot take offs are not acceptable 

< VERY BIG GRIN  >

The blue avid take off gets cut out but I was standing at near the 200 foot 

mark and he takes 400 feet + to get off  but climbs well once off as you 

will see in video.

The take off run on the first two is 200 feet to about the edge of the 

taxiway. so you will see just past that is about the 250 feet  and beyond 

that is the windsock hanging vertical -- no wind  but hard to see.



The White and blue Raven is a 84 year old man  that he scratch built. .

Temp was about  60 F   elevation  955 asl   wind calm



Download it here     http://www.cfisher.com/kitfox/coffeebreak.wmv 

about  4.6  meg.   about 30 seconds on my highspeed  -on dialup i wouldguess 

about   15 to 20 mins



Dave

---

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:35 pm Post subject: Guy -- 582 numbers

At 09:55 AM 10/3/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  cruise 88- 89   mph via gps  ( asi reads about 105  or so  lol   - no

external static port)


	


Sigh. I cruise right around 80 at 5800 rpm. That's one reason I was 

wondering if the prop was too big. I wondered if I was having to flatten it 

to keep the loading down because of the big disk, and if the result was 

that I had low top end.



It also looks like you're a lot less draggy than I am. (Lower static, 

higher WOT rpm.) I don't have the radiator cowled or a cowl flap on the 

cowl exhaust. I also don't have fairings on the gas caps or on the strut 

ends. Other than that I'm pretty fair.

Guy Buchanan

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

janderson412(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:06 pm Post subject: Guy -- 582 numbers

Bearing in mind we are talking about short t/off? The idea in this case is 

to get the a/c airborne as soon as possible. The acceleration rate is better 

with wheels unstuck so the aim is to get  them (wheels) just inches above 

the ground and just hold it there. Yes try lifting the tail a tad more then 

but not too much, the idea being to maintain a high angle of attack, when it 

becomes airborne slowly lower the nose as the speed builds. Stick movements 

must be very subtle when the aircraft is in the mode. Are you using flap at 

all.  ~j~



From:  Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com>

Reply-To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject:  Re: Guy -- 582 numbers

Date:  Tue, 03 Oct 2006 08:18:06 -0700




At 01:49 PM 10/2/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  After many hours of ag flying in heavy tail daggers, I found (and with my

Serries 5) ease the tail up just a little when it's ready then slight back

pressure and as soon as the tail doesn't lower with the back pressure it's

ready to fly. Once airbourne, hold it down until the speed builds to vy..


	


Thanks John. I've tried this and the only problem I have with it is that I'm 

airborne very close to stall speed. Once I had the aircraft settle back to 

the runway after it lifted off during a gust. I basically had to three-point 

a landing while taking off; very disconcerting. Am I holding the tail too 

low?

Guy Buchanan

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.





_________________________________________________________________

Become a fitness fanatic (at)  http://xtramsn.co.nz/health

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kitfox-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum