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RV's: Difficult to Fly? Nonsense !!

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Jerry Cochran

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 111
Location: Wilsonville, OR

Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 7:06 am Post subject: RV's: Difficult to Fly? Nonsense !!

Bob,

  

 With due respect, and I mean that, this brings up one of my pet peeves  about the reputation that RV's seem to have. I don't know how many times I've  heard how difficult they are to fly. I'd like to start a thread here and  have folks weigh in  on the subject. 

  

 To me, it boils down to a few. They are very fast, so one must be even more  vigilant to stay ahead of the plane, watch for traffic, but just like a Bonanza  or 210 in this regard. 

 On the short wing RV's it's imperative to mind your speed in the pattern.  Too slow and it's a brick. We've lost a number on that turn to final. The -a  models seem to have a tendency to bend the nose gear, so land on the mains, true  for any trike. 

  

 That's about it from my perspective with about 200+hrs. of RV time. I  tend to regard the talk about how difficult they are to fly as urban legend or  OWT's. I took 4 hours with Mike Seager and 3 with a seasoned RV pilot, and that  was it. I was happily surprised that our -6a wasn't the handful as I was told to  expect. (by non-RV pilots of course).

  

 So, Bob and others, take heart. They really are not the skitterish hot rod  portrayed in some circles... 

  

 My .05 as usual,

 Jerry Cochran

  

  

 Subject: Re: Cirrus - OT

From: "Bob Collins"  <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net>



--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob  Collins" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net>



Indeed, the accident in New  York -- and the Cirrus accidents -- reminds me that

low-time Warrior/Cessna  172 pilots who are building RVs, need to spend a LOT

of time..... a LOT of  time ... in transition training. 



Always makes me pause and think, "Am I  *really* going to be able to fly this thing

safely."



--------

Bob  Collins

St. Paul, Minn.

RV Builder's Hotline  (free!)

http://home.comcast.net/~rvnewsletter/



 

  

  [quote][b]

Bob Collins

Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota

Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 7:37 am Post subject: RV's: Difficult to Fly? Nonsense !!

I've never said RVs are harder to fly. I  don't know. I've ridden in one once. 

  

 But I'm in the Richard L. Collins  camp.  The machine isn't the issue for me.  It's the driver. when I  talk about how *I* consider the New York accident to re-examine whether *I'm* a  good enough pilot to pilot an RV, that isn't saying anything about the RV. It's  saying something about *me.*  Can I keep ahead of the plane? How much  training will it take?  I don't know, but I take  as 100% gospel,  the  reports of RV drivers about what a good plane it is. If only some of  you would drop down and give me some stick time I'd know for sure.  (vbg)

  

 I'm not scared of flying an RV.  I'm merely evaluating  my present proficiency as a pilot.  Obviously, YMMV and I sure hope it  does. (g)

  

 Bob 

  

 Do not  archive

  

  -----Original  Message-----

From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  Jerry2DT(at)aol.com

Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 10:05  AM

To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RV's:  Difficult to Fly? Nonsense !!

 [quote]      Bob,

    

   With due respect, and I mean that, this brings up one of my pet peeves    about the reputation that RV's seem to have. I don't know how many times I've    heard how difficult they are to fly. I'd like to start a thread here and    have folks weigh in  on the subject. 

    

   To me, it boils down to a few. They are very fast, so one must be even    more vigilant to stay ahead of the plane, watch for traffic, but just like a    Bonanza or 210 in this regard. 

   On the short wing RV's it's imperative to mind your speed in the pattern.    Too slow and it's a brick. We've lost a number on that turn to final. The -a    models seem to have a tendency to bend the nose gear, so land on the mains,    true for any trike. 

    

   That's about it from my perspective with about 200+hrs. of RV time.    I tend to regard the talk about how difficult they are to fly as urban legend    or OWT's. I took 4 hours with Mike Seager and 3 with a seasoned RV pilot, and    that was it. I was happily surprised that our -6a wasn't the handful as I was    told to expect. (by non-RV pilots of course).

    

   So, Bob and others, take heart. They really are not the skitterish hot    rod portrayed in some circles... 

    

   My .05 as usual,

   Jerry Cochran

    

    

   Subject: Re: Cirrus - OT

From: "Bob Collins"    <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net>



--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob    Collins" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net>



Indeed, the accident in New    York -- and the Cirrus accidents -- reminds me that

low-time Warrior/Cessna    172 pilots who are building RVs, need to spend a LOT

of time..... a LOT of    time ... in transition training. 



Always makes me pause and think, "Am    I *really* going to be able to fly this    thing

safely."



--------

Bob Collins

St. Paul, Minn.

RV    Builder's Hotline    (free!)

http://home.comcast.net/~rvnewsletter/



   

    

 	  Quote: 	
		  



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List



	
[b]

_________________
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/

Ed Anderson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 475

Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:16 am Post subject: RV's: Difficult to Fly? Nonsense !!

I have to agree with Jerry.   While certainly  not recommended, I made my first flight in my RV-6A without any  RV flight time.  I attempted to check out in a Grumman but none readily  available (without joining a club).  So I got approx 20 hours in a Cherokee  Warrior before the first flight.

  

 I had an oil temp issue which cause  me to abort my planned flight of 5 trips around the pattern and decided to land  after first circuit.  The landing was a grease job (I'm told the tires  didn't chirp - yes, I did have a "crash" crew stationed off each end of the  runway) - amazing what concentration will do.

  

 In any case, as I taxied back in, I  recall thinking - I didn't even have to think about flying the airplane, it was  so honest and behaved to control movement as expected.  Responsive but not  twitchy at all.  I recalled thinking that a Cessna 150 was much harder to  get a good landing  in and I have not changed my mind at 350 hours in the  RV.

  

 As someone already mentioned, heavily  loaded and on a high density altitude day, you can get an excessive rate of  descent if you don't mind your airspeed on final - and it doesn't have the wing  area to give you a nice flair if sinking fast and slow on airspeed.

  

 It did take a bit of  time  to get use of trying to slow it down for pattern entry {:>).   

  

 You can kill yourself in any airframe  (J3 cub included) if you get behind the airplane, don't know your aircraft's  limitations and most importantly don't know your own limitations and get into a  bad situation.

  

 Ed

  

 Ed Anderson

Rv-6A N494BW Rotary  Powered

Matthews, NC

eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com (eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com)

http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW

http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html

  

 Ed

  

  

 [quote]   ---

_________________
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com

Bob Collins

Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota

Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:37 am Post subject: RV's: Difficult to Fly? Nonsense !!

//  So I  got approx 20 hours in a Cherokee Warrior before the first flight. 

  

 That reminds me of a question I was  thinking about asking driving home the other night (before I got distracted by  the Cirrus accident). When I transitioned from a high wing (172) to the low wing  (Warrior), I had difficulty -- and still do sometimes -- judging the "ground  effect" properly. in the Warrior.   I've never seen this evaluated in  RV discussions but can anyone who's flown in both compare the ground effect  characteristics of the two raft?

  

 Bob

  

 Do not  archive

    [quote][b]

_________________
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/

tedd(at)vansairforce.org
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:49 am Post subject: RV's: Difficult to Fly? Nonsense !!

Jerry:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I'd like to start a thread here and  have folks weigh in  on the subject.


	


I'll take you up on that.



I think the myth that RVs are difficult to fly is a little like the taildragger

myth in that pilots who have little or no experience with both types fret about

them while pilots who regularly fly them can't understand what the big deal is.



But the RV myth differs in that, while a pilot new to taildraggers does have to

learn a couple of new things to fly them, someone transitioning from, say, a

C-172 to an RV doesn't have to learn anything new.  It's possible that he'll

have to be a bit more careful to do the things he should be doing in his Cessna

(but might have got lax about).  But he doesn't have to learn anything new.



I suspect another factor leading to the RV myth is that so many private pilots

have a background in a handful of airplanes that are designed to handle a

certain way (C-150/172, Cherokee), and RVs handle differently.  I checked out

in a C-172 long after I started flying RVs, and I found it much more difficult

to learn than the RV.  So I suspect it's the CHANGE that people find difficult,

not the airplane.  But, as a result of demographics, that change is far more

likely to be Cessna-to-RV than the other way around.



Finally, there's the effect of manoeuvrability.  Any vehicle that has quicker

transient response and more sensitive controls is EASIER than a

lower-performance vehicle once you've adjusted to it.  But it's also HARDER to

go up the performance chain than to stay where you are (or go down).



---



Tedd McHenry

Surrey, BC, Canada

truflite(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:18 pm Post subject: RV's: Difficult to Fly? Nonsense !!

Bob,



I I did my PPL training in a Cherokee 140, 2-180s, and

an Archer II.  Shortly after receiving my PPL, I

joined a flying club with 5 Cessnas.  The difference

between the two makes is substantial.



First of all, Piper and Cessna each use a different

airfoils.  Piper is more of a symmetrical airfoil

where Cessna uses a more flat bottom airfoil.  The

biggest difference I noticed is that when removing

power in the Pipers, the nose would begin to fall off

immediately and would occilate to a stable flightpath

within two cycles of occilation.  When the nose would

fall the aircraft would gain very little speed before

stabilizing.  The Cessnas, on the other hand would

occilate five or six times before stabilizing.  When

power is pulled back, the nose would fall off with a

slight delay and then would fall off well beyond what

you would expect.  This would cause a large increase

in airspeed and then the occilations.  The occilations

could be avoided by adding a little back pressure to

the stick and then slowly removing the the back

pressure allowing the aircraft to stabilize.  Once

stabilized, the Cessnas  would ride like on rails,

just like the Pipers.  



Second, on landing and flair, the Pipers were not as

forgiving as the Cessnas should you be a bit high on

flair.  I thought I was going to punch the mains

through the wings once with my instructor on board. 

Quite embarassing.  The stall is quick due to the

airfoil shape.  Flairs are done almost touching the

runway.  As for ground effect, the symmetrical airfoil

does ride ground effect but not as long as the

Cessnas.  Careful application of back pressure will

raise the nose nicely and the aircraft will settle

with just a little chirp of the mains.  I made one

landing in training so slick, I was waiting for the

mains to chirp and the nose wheel settled onto the

runway.  I was down and did not know it.  One of the

few attaboys I ever got from that instructor.



Flairs and landings in the Cessnas are little

different  in my experience.  The flat(ter) bottom

airfoil will still generate lift at higher angles of

attack.  Hence,  a higher flair angle is not needed

and if applied will balloon you up more so than the

Pipers.  That is not to say you should three point a

Cessna trike gear or that a Piper will not balloon, on

the contrary.  The Cessnas seem to generate a lot of

ground effect.  I have landed a 172 holding it off the

runway about one foot with full flaps and have touched

down with the airspeed indicator not able to read the

airspeed.    Not easy to do.  My instructor told me to

practice this occassionally.  If you have a blown

tire, this would be the way to bring it in safely and

touching down with minimum speed. I never thought

about having to make a landing like that, but I know

how to do it.



My home field is in the middle of a commercial area of

town so losing an engine on final is not an option one

would want to encounter.  I fly final at 80 knots till

over the fence and then pull power.  Ride the ground

effect and touch down.  If all goes well, I can

leisurely pull off the runway in about 2000 feet with

minimum braking only because there are very few

taxiways available.  Better to go further than heat up

the brakes.



I hope this gives some insight into the diffences

regarding ground effect.  By the way,  I needed about

5 hours transition time into the Cessnas because of

the different traits involved in landing.  Humbling to

say the least but an education worth having.



Fly safe,



Dave Nellis



--- Bob Collins <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		    //  So I got approx 20 hours in a Cherokee Warrior

 before the first flight.

 

  

 That reminds me of a question I was thinking about

 asking driving home the

 other night (before I got distracted by the Cirrus

 accident). When I

 transitioned from a high wing (172) to the low wing

 (Warrior), I had

 difficulty -- and still do sometimes -- judging the

 "ground effect"

 properly. in the Warrior.   I've never seen this

 evaluated in RV discussions

 but can anyone who's flown in both compare the

 ground effect characteristics

 of the two raft?

  

 Bob

  

 Do not archive

 


	




__________________________________________________

Bob Collins

Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota

Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 5:04 am Post subject: RV's: Difficult to Fly? Nonsense !!

Thanks, Dave. How would you -- or anyone else lurking -- compare the

characterisitics of the Piper and Cessna to the way an RV behaves in similar

situaitons. I'm intrigued by your  assessment of the power pull and the

oscillations. How would each compare to a typical RV?



Bob



--

_________________
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/

aerobubba(at)earthlink.ne
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:17 am Post subject: RV's: Difficult to Fly? Nonsense !!

Hi Tedd-



Wow, what perfectly eloquent and succinct response!  Well done!

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Jerry:



 > I'd like to start a thread here and  have folks weigh in  on the

subject.
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  

 I'll take you up on that.



 I think the myth that RVs are difficult to fly is a little like the

taildragger
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   myth in that pilots who have little or no experience with both types fret

about
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   them while pilots who regularly fly them can't understand what the big

deal is.
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  

 But the RV myth differs in that, while a pilot new to taildraggers does

have to
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   learn a couple of new things to fly them, someone transitioning from,

say, a
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   C-172 to an RV doesn't have to learn anything new.  It's possible that

he'll
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   have to be a bit more careful to do the things he should be doing in his

Cessna
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   (but might have got lax about).  But he doesn't have to learn anything

new.
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  

 I suspect another factor leading to the RV myth is that so many private

pilots
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   have a background in a handful of airplanes that are designed to handle a

 certain way (C-150/172, Cherokee), and RVs handle differently.  I checked

out
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   in a C-172 long after I started flying RVs, and I found it much more

difficult
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   to learn than the RV.  So I suspect it's the CHANGE that people find

difficult,
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   not the airplane.  But, as a result of demographics, that change is far

more
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   likely to be Cessna-to-RV than the other way around.



 Finally, there's the effect of manoeuvrability.  Any vehicle that has

quicker
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   transient response and more sensitive controls is EASIER than a

 lower-performance vehicle once you've adjusted to it.  But it's also

HARDER to
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   go up the performance chain than to stay where you are (or go down).



 ---



 Tedd McHenry

 Surrey, BC, Canada


	


glen matejcek

aerobubba(at)earthlink.net

robin1(at)mrmoisture.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:07 am Post subject: RV's: Difficult to Fly? Nonsense !!

Bob,  

            At last a place where I can contribute! I was a 475 hour (4 year) pilot when I purchased my first RV (RV-4). I was also an 8 hour tail dragger certified pilot (Citabria). While ultimately the TD was not for me as I use my RV for commuting in all conditions the RV’s are the easiest planes I have ever flown. I am also the current owner of a Turbo Lance II (School bus) and a D-35 Bonanza (business partner flies this) plus in my time I have also owned two other Cherokees (very little Cessna time as I don’t like the high wing).   

Ultimately I sold the -4 and purchased a beautiful 6A. The biggest challenge for me transitioning from the -4 to the 6A was going from right hand on the stick to left hand on the stick. That was an eye opener the first couple of trips around the patch. Now with 125 hours in my 6A I can honestly say that it is the easiest plane I have ever flown and especially easy to land. IMHO it is very easy to slow down when entering the pattern and keeping your eye on the numbers will prevent you from ever getting close to stalling in the pattern. In my 6A I trim full up on final again watching my speed and I am able to land it on the mains every time holding off the nose for about as long as I want. I try to touch down the sissy wheel as lightly as I can just for my own satisfaction. I am extremely far from ever damaging the front gear.   

I mention this easy of landing as my Turbo Lance II does not have nearly the elevator authority as an RV and is much more difficult to land softly. Plus I gobble up about 4 times the runway.  

Finally I am based in SBP, if VBG is Vandeburg we are neighbors and I would be happy to give you a ride. My typical commute is SBP to BUR flying just north of VBG. In fact I will be returning to SBP this Tuesday if you want me to stop by for a ride. You will have to bring your own headset as my primary set is in for servicing but that is another post…  

Side note, last week I flew from San Luis Obispo to Monterey at 6,500’. GPS had me at 199 Kts. Wahoooo!  

   

Robin  

Robin(at)MrMoisture.com (Robin(at)MrMoisture.com)   

RV-4 Sold  

RV-6A 300 Hours  

RV-10 in Pieces   

RV-8A Dreaming  

         

  

From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins

 Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 8:37 AM

 To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: RV's: Difficult to Fly? Nonsense !!  

  

     

I've never said RVs are harder to fly. I don't know. I've ridden in one once.   

    

   

    

But I'm in the Richard L. Collins camp.  The machine isn't the issue for me.  It's the driver. when I talk about how *I* consider the New York accident to re-examine whether *I'm* a good enough pilot to pilot an RV, that isn't saying anything about the RV. It's saying something about *me.*  Can I keep ahead of the plane? How much training will it take?  I don't know, but I take  as 100% gospel, the  reports of RV drivers about what a good plane it is. If only some of you would drop down and give me some stick time I'd know for sure. (vbg)  

    

   

    

I'm not scared of flying an RV.  I'm merely evaluating my present proficiency as a pilot.  Obviously, YMMV and I sure hope it does. (g)  

    

   

    

Bob   

    

   

    

Do not archive  

    

   

    

   

  [quote] [b]

Bob Collins

Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota

Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 11:17 am Post subject: RV's: Difficult to Fly? Nonsense !!

Wow. Fabulous assessment Robin. but, sorry, VBG actually  stood for  "very big grin."  You need to move to Minnesota.  (vbg)  :*)

  

 Do not archive



   From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin  Marks

Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 12:59 PM

To:  rv-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: RV's: Difficult to Fly?  Nonsense !!

 

  

Bob, 

             At last a place where I can contribute! I was a 475 hour (4 year) pilot when I  purchased my first RV (RV-4). I was also an 8 hour tail dragger certified pilot  (Citabria). While ultimately the TD was not for me as I use my RV for commuting  in all conditions the RV’s are the easiest planes I have ever flown. I am also  the current owner of a Turbo Lance II (School bus) and a D-35 Bonanza (business  partner flies this) plus in my time I have also owned two other Cherokees (very  little Cessna time as I don’t like the high wing).  

Ultimately  I sold the -4 and purchased a beautiful 6A. The biggest challenge for me  transitioning from the -4 to the 6A was going from right hand on the stick to  left hand on the stick. That was an eye opener the first couple of trips around  the patch. Now with 125 hours in my 6A I can honestly say that it is the easiest  plane I have ever flown and especially easy to land. IMHO it is very easy to  slow down when entering the pattern and keeping your eye on the numbers will  prevent you from ever getting close to stalling in the pattern. In my 6A I trim  full up on final again watching my speed and I am able to land it on the mains  every time holding off the nose for about as long as I want. I try to touch down  the sissy wheel as lightly as I can just for my own satisfaction. I am extremely  far from ever damaging the front gear.  

I mention  this easy of landing as my Turbo Lance II does not have nearly the elevator  authority as an RV and is much more difficult to land softly. Plus I gobble up  about 4 times the runway. 

Finally I  am based in SBP, if VBG is Vandeburg we are neighbors and I would be happy to  give you a ride. My typical commute is SBP to BUR flying just north of VBG. In  fact I will be returning to SBP this Tuesday if you want me to stop by for a  ride. You will have to bring your own headset as my primary set is in for  servicing but that is another post… 

Side note,  last week I flew from San Luis Obispo to  Monterey at  6,500’. GPS had me at 199 Kts. Wahoooo! 

  

Robin 

Robin(at)MrMoisture.com (Robin(at)MrMoisture.com)   

RV-4  Sold 

RV-6A 300  Hours 

RV-10 in Pieces   

RV-8A  Dreaming 

     

 

From:  owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]  On Behalf Of Bob  Collins

Sent: Saturday, October  14, 2006 8:37 AM

To:  rv-list(at)matronics.com

Subject:  RE: RV's: Difficult to Fly? Nonsense  !!

 

   

I've never  said RVs are harder to fly. I don't know. I've ridden in one once.  

  

 

  

But I'm in  the Richard L. Collins camp.  The machine isn't the issue for me.   It's the driver. when I talk about how *I* consider the New York accident to  re-examine whether *I'm* a good enough pilot to pilot an RV, that isn't saying  anything about the RV. It's saying something about *me.*  Can I keep  ahead of the plane? How much training will it take?  I don't know, but I  take  as 100% gospel, the  reports of RV drivers about what a good  plane it is. If only some of you would drop down and give me some stick time I'd  know for sure. (vbg)

  

 

  

I'm not  scared of flying an RV.  I'm merely evaluating my present proficiency as a  pilot.  Obviously, YMMV and I sure hope it does. (g)

  

 

  

Bob 

  

 

  

Do not  archive

  

 

  

 

[quote] 



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List



[b]

_________________
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/

ronlee(at)pcisys.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:27 pm Post subject: RV's: Difficult to Fly? Nonsense !!

Forget about all this stuff.   Just go fly an RV.  If I can

do it most others can as well with reasonable time in

type.



Ron Lee

Bob Collins

Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota

Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:34 pm Post subject: RV's: Difficult to Fly? Nonsense !!

I'm thinking of organizing a national RV Builder's Motivation Day, and mate

builders with willing "former" builders (aka: RV pilots). Think that's

something folks would support?



Bob



Do not archive 



--

_________________
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/

FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:19 am Post subject: RV's: Difficult to Fly? Nonsense !!

In a message dated 10/15/2006 10:36:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I'm thinking of organizing a national RV Builder's Motivation Day, and mate

builders with willing "former" builders (aka: RV pilots). Think that's

something folks would support?



Bob 	


 -----------------------

 SURE!  

  

 I am both and it would be interesting, fun and educational.

  

  

  

  

 Barry

"Chop'd Liver"

  [quote][b]

davcor(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:38 am Post subject: RV's: Difficult to Fly? Nonsense !!

Sure,

I'm working on the fuse (precision longeron twisting) right now (RV7) and

would love to help pay for gas for day trips in Colorado.



KBJC (Jefferson County), KEIK (Erie Tri-County), are close to where I'm

building, 00V (Meadow Lake) is close to where I work

In fact most Colorado Front Range airports are pretty close.



Dave Cordner

RV7 - N898DC (rsvd)



--

phil(at)petrasoft.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:53 pm Post subject: RV's: Difficult to Fly? Nonsense !!

We did a BMD this year in the Houston area where the flying guys gave the building guys a ride and some stick time.  We had a few weather delays (early mornings in February are hard to make around here) but once we finally got everybody together, it was great fun.  Builders bring lunch and "former" builders bring two full tanks of 100LL.

  	  Quote: 	
		  Godspeed,



Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas

RV-7 N727WB

http://www.myrv7.com

	
 

 

 Bob Collins wrote: [quote]  [quote]  I'm thinking of organizing a national RV Builder's Motivation Day, and mate builders with willing "former" builders (aka: RV pilots). Think that's something folks would support?  Bob  Do not archive   --

bertrv6(at)highstream.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:26 pm Post subject: RV's: Difficult to Fly? Nonsense !!

Quoting Bob Collins <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net>:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Wow. Fabulous assessment Robin. but, sorry, VBG actually stood for  "very

 big grin."  You need to move to Minnesota. (vbg)  :*)



 Do not archive



   _____



 From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com

 [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks

 Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 12:59 PM

 To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: RV's: Difficult to Fly? Nonsense !!



 Bob,



             At last a place where I can contribute! I was a 475 hour (4

 year) pilot when I purchased my first RV (RV-4). I was also an 8 hour tail

 dragger certified pilot (Citabria). While ultimately the TD was not for me

 as I use my RV for commuting in all conditions the RV's are the easiest

 planes I have ever flown. I am also the current owner of a Turbo Lance II

 (School bus) and a D-35 Bonanza (business partner flies this) plus in my

 time I have also owned two other Cherokees (very little Cessna time as I

 don't like the high wing).



 Ultimately I sold the -4 and purchased a beautiful 6A. The biggest challenge

 for me transitioning from the -4 to the 6A was going from right hand on the

 stick to left hand on the stick. That was an eye opener the first couple of

 trips around the patch. Now with 125 hours in my 6A I can honestly say that

 it is the easiest plane I have ever flown and especially easy to land. IMHO

 it is very easy to slow down when entering the pattern and keeping your eye

 on the numbers will prevent you from ever getting close to stalling in the

 pattern. In my 6A I trim full up on final again watching my speed and I am

 able to land it on the mains every time holding off the nose for about as

 long as I want. I try to touch down the sissy wheel as lightly as I can just

 for my own satisfaction. I am extremely far from ever damaging the front

 gear.



 I mention this easy of landing as my Turbo Lance II does not have nearly the

 elevator authority as an RV and is much more difficult to land softly. Plus

 I gobble up about 4 times the runway.



 Finally I am based in SBP, if VBG is Vandeburg we are neighbors and I would

 be happy to give you a ride. My typical commute is SBP to BUR flying just

 north of VBG. In fact I will be returning to SBP this Tuesday if you want me

 to stop by for a ride. You will have to bring your own headset as my primary

 set is in for servicing but that is another post.



 Side note, last week I flew from San Luis Obispo to Monterey at 6,500'. GPS

 had me at 199 Kts. Wahoooo!



 Robin



 Robin(at)MrMoisture.com



 RV-4 Sold



 RV-6A 300 Hours



 RV-10 in Pieces



 RV-8A Dreaming



   _____



 From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com

 [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins

 Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 8:37 AM

 To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: RV's: Difficult to Fly? Nonsense !!



 I've never said RVs are harder to fly. I don't know. I've ridden in one

 once.



 But I'm in the Richard L. Collins camp.  The machine isn't the issue for me.

 It's the driver. when I talk about how *I* consider the New York accident to

 re-examine whether *I'm* a good enough pilot to pilot an RV, that isn't

 saying anything about the RV. It's saying something about *me.*  Can I keep

 ahead of the plane? How much training will it take?  I don't know, but I

 take  as 100% gospel, the  reports of RV drivers about what a good plane it

 is. If only some of you would drop down and give me some stick time I'd know

 for sure. (vbg)



 I'm not scared of flying an RV.  I'm merely evaluating my present

 proficiency as a pilot.  Obviously, YMMV and I sure hope it does. (g)



 Bob



 Do not archive



 Disagree with the answers on this.  Every plane is easy to land, and or

fly, once you learn to do it.....
	




But an RV is not as easy as a cherokee 140, or a cessna 172.NO>..



Is fast, and you must have power when flaring.... very different..

You must learn to land an RV., just like any other plane, but the first

few times, when I took the transition training, from my Cherokee 140, to

this,  was an experience...it drops like a brick,  if you do not use some

power....Cherockee  floats and floats, and floats.....



Bert



rv6a



do not archive

 	  Quote:

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