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Guy --- Re: Warp Drive Hub

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dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 2:55 am Post subject: Guy --- Re: Warp Drive Hub

Guy,  please post some pics of the Exhaust  There is a length in the Rotax 

manual for length from exhaust port to the muffler including the cone( that 

is the part that Skystar modified with a few bends as well as chopping off 

about 1 " or so of the y pipe manifold but if does seem to work ok.)



Timing etc -- call Rotax Bob Robertson. I have called him for advice many 

times and it always free but keep in mind I buy all rotax stuff from him as 

well.

I think I read that your engine sat idle over 10 years during build time ? 

Possible issues there like crank seals but ask Bob.



Your prop sounds way over propped at your 13 degree setting.   What was it 

at before you changed it ? .   I don't measure my WARP with degrees but set 

all the blades all the same.  I did measure last week though and I think it 

was around 10 degrees or so at the tip . Yours being a 2 inch large dimater 

I would stay closer to 10 degrees. ( mine is 68" )    I set by RPM and how 

it works but I think WARP should be 10 to 11 degrees area.  I used the Warp 

protractor thingy and re pitched to all the same.  I think I made it 1/2 

degree finer approx. and my static went from 5850 5900  to  6150 - 6200 and 

my in flight WOT went from 6600  to  6900 or so.   I also dropped the clip 

on carb needles one notch to the bottom notch  so it all the way rich now. 

and egts have come down from 1200+  to  1100  or a bit less in cruise. 

Temps here are average 30F to 45F degrees this week.  and our elevation is 

about 950 asl.



I would set your prop to give  6200 to 6400  rpm  static  to start and 

coarsen it about 1/4 degree at a time from there as needed.  Assuming you 

have stock jetting ( I think the needle is a 11G) the clip should be on 

second notch from bottom of needle  but if EGTS  get over 1200 in cruise I 

would drop one more notch.   I think you said that you have some EIS or 

engine gauges etc ?   How is the impulse achieved ?  A tiny tach will 

confirm or an optical tach that your gauge reading is infact accurate. 

Tiny Tach  --order one from Bob when you call him and he will send out 

overnight.    EGT  confirm it by the look of the spark plugs.



Do you have another 582 owner near you with allot of  experience?  I would 

get him over to help you out as well is possible.   Personally I Think  you 

are getting in way to deep on the technical stuff and you have most likey 

some simple issues here to resolve.



---

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Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 6:53 am Post subject: Guy --- Re: Warp Drive Hub

At 03:55 AM 10/21/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Guy,  please post some pics of the Exhaust  There is a length in the Rotax

manual for length from exhaust port to the muffler including the cone( that

is the part that Skystar modified with a few bends as well as chopping off

about 1 " or so of the y pipe manifold but if does seem to work ok.)


	


I couldn't find this. Do you have it?



 	  Quote: 	
		  Timing etc -- call Rotax Bob Robertson. I have called him for advice many

times and it always free but keep in mind I buy all rotax stuff from him as

well.

I think I read that your engine sat idle over 10 years during build time ?

Possible issues there like crank seals but ask Bob.


	


Good idea.



 	  Quote: 	
		  Your prop sounds way over propped at your 13 degree setting.   What was it

at before you changed it ? .


	


I had it at 12 degrees.



 	  Quote: 	
		  I don't measure my WARP with degrees but set

all the blades all the same.  I did measure last week though and I think it

was around 10 degrees or so at the tip . Yours being a 2 inch large dimater

I would stay closer to 10 degrees. ( mine is 68" )    I set by RPM and how

it works but I think WARP should be 10 to 11 degrees area.  I used the Warp

protractor thingy and re pitched to all the same.  I think I made it 1/2

degree finer approx. and my static went from 5850 5900  to  6150 - 6200 and

my in flight WOT went from 6600  to  6900 or so.   I also dropped the clip

on carb needles one notch to the bottom notch  so it all the way rich now.

and egts have come down from 1200+  to  1100  or a bit less in cruise.

Temps here are average 30F to 45F degrees this week.  and our elevation is

about 950 asl.


	


Thanks for this info. It's very helpful. My previous WOT was 6550. Maybe it 

would help to bring it up closer to 6700.



 	  Quote: 	
		  A tiny tach will

confirm or an optical tach that your gauge reading is infact accurate.

Tiny Tach  --order one from Bob when you call him and he will send out

overnight.    EGT  confirm it by the look of the spark plugs.


	


I have an optical tach and have confirmed the RPM readings on the GRT EIS 

are accurate.



 	  Quote: 	
		  Do you have another 582 owner near you with allot of  experience?  I would

get him over to help you out as well is possible.


	


Man I've got hordes of people with lots of experience, probably too many, 

as I get lots of opinions! I'm looking for hard data, like yours. All the 

anecdotes get contradicted with every new opinion!



 	  Quote: 	
		  Personally I Think  you

are getting in way to deep on the technical stuff and you have most likey

some simple issues here to resolve.


	


Nah. The technical stuff is fun. I'm learning a lot. I'm even going to 

write my own prop optimization software when I get the time. I agree my 

problems are probably simple, (excess drag, inadequate horsepower,) but 

it's a learning experience to chase them down, and you'd be surprised how 

hard it is to compile useful comparison data; there are so many variables. 

Thank you for your patience and assistance. I really do appreciate it. I 

know if I bug everyone enough I'll find the piece of the puzzle I'm looking 

for.

Guy Buchanan

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

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_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 7:46 am Post subject: Guy --- Re: Warp Drive Hub

Guy,    go to page 25    section 10

http://www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com/pdf/dokus/d00287.pdf

But Like i said before   you are getting a clouded vision of a simple 

problem of prop setting.

Keep in mind Props like your are being used successfully on many  582s so 

thinkiing about writing software etc is not necessary  in my opinion.

We are talking proven designs and props here so no needto re-invent the 

wheel .



I just in  from flying last 2 hours.   did about 10 take offs and landings 

when i got back .....  and all were 150 to 200 feet at th most

wind about 3 knots or less  temp 5 C    elevation 950 '

Warp set at 6200  static. cruies at 5800 85 to 88  or so   at  500 agl

Dave

---

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Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 5:34 pm Post subject: Guy --- Re: Warp Drive Hub

At 08:44 AM 10/21/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I just in  from flying last 2 hours.   did about 10 take offs and landings

when i got back .....  and all were 150 to 200 feet at th most

wind about 3 knots or less  temp 5 C    elevation 950 '

Warp set at 6200  static. cruies at 5800 85 to 88  or so   at  500 agl


	


Dave,

         I timed your Kitfox video and got about 7.2 seconds from first 

motion to obvious vertical motion. This works out to about 212' to 40mph. I 

timed my early morning take-off today at 8.66 seconds. (A little crude 

since it's hard to fiddle with the watch while taking off!) This works out 

to 254' to 40mph. I'll have to check my measurements, since 254' is not 

near as bad as the 540' I originally estimated.

Guy Buchanan

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

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_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 5:51 pm Post subject: Guy --- Re: Warp Drive Hub

Guy -- 



Put away the slide rule and pace out 100 feet intervals at 100 200 300 400 

feet  or what ever you llike .

When you break ground you will know where you leave and it not a vidoe cam 

will catch it .



I got a few clips today -- let me see  if i can get clip put together  for 

you shorty.



Dave



PS   CONGRATS on breaking into the under 300 foot club-- sure beats  700 to 

1000  feet  eh !!



---

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Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:50 am Post subject: Guy --- Re: Warp Drive Hub

At 08:44 AM 10/21/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Guy,    go to page 25    section 10

http://www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com/pdf/dokus/d00287.pdf


	


Dave,

         Thanks for the reference. This is much better than the old thing I 

received with my engine.

Guy Buchanan

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.



Do not archive

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_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

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