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akflyer
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 3:01 pm Post subject: need info on 582 rebuilding

I have a 582 with 292 hrs and am ready to tear it down for a rebuild.  It is a grey head so I want to get the case machined for the ceramic water pump seal update.  I am looking for a place to do the machine work (prefer the west coast for shipping reasons)  and I need the crank rebuilt.  I can do the crank at the local shop, but need a source for parts.  Has anyone found a good source for rotax parts that has reasonable prices ?



Thanks

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 5:14 pm Post subject: need info on 582 rebuilding

Contact a Rotax shop



Bob Robertson in Alberta.

I have his number if you need it .



Also You might want to try the trade in program and get all new everything 

except  muffler and carbs.



Blue head has the water pump bypass and you could even go to a E box  with 

starter up front.  I have done that and have no issues with W & B

I have nothing against a grey head having flown many of them but if you 

going the cheap route rebuilding cranks  - well good luck.  Get a new one 

from rotax or at least get advice from Bob.   He will check your ser. number 

to see it the old style or new style.   With 292 hour you are doing 

something right on it but remember all the parts were new when it started at 

ZERO  time .



Dave

---

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markrmiller(at)cableone.n
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 5:31 pm Post subject: need info on 582 rebuilding

You want to talk to Bob Robertson here is his info

Light Engine Service  780-418-4164

Great guy we bought 3 914,s from him and he stands behind his product (know 

from experience)

Mark Miller



---

akflyer
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: need info on 582 rebuilding

I am kinda hard headed at times as I have been racing sleds and we run those WAY harder and longer than anyone in their right mind would run an engine you are flying behind.  With that being said, I feel that if I can rebuild / straighten cranks in race engines (that are straighter than the NEW factory crank) that go for 100 miles at a time on the bar (WOT 8,200 RPM+) time after time and stay together year after year, I am not shy about rebuilding this engine.  I am also not a stupid pilot who takes alot of unnessisary chances with his life (well ok there have been a few times lol).  I dont buy into the arguments that you have to buy NEW cranks everytime.  If you take it down, inspect, mike, etc. and find it within tolerances and put it back together to specs then I dont have one second thought about flying behind it.



Just my thoughts



Leni

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 5:56 pm Post subject: need info on 582 rebuilding

you run 100 miles  pinned  at 8200 rpm  ?   I call BS....................



plus airplanes run a constant rpm range......... at lower rpm   5500 to 6000 

and they are tuned to run in that range with exhaust that aloow for this 

power band.

I a ma sure you can blueprint  your engine well and try out a 582  and see 

how it works. Might be fine ........ but that 500 $ you save you can spend 

on new landing gear if it does not work.



I have had sleds that do 120 to 140 mph in  1/8 mile  -- no frigging way you 

will run  100 miles like that  ...sorry.



Your choice -- but call A rotax shop like Bob . Robertson and get him to 

explain it to you.  He Rotax guru  -- i only buy from him.



Dave



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akflyer
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 6:02 pm Post subject: Re: need info on 582 rebuilding

not here to argue over what I do, but you are welcome to come on a river run with us for irondog training...not many can hang for the first day...

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 6:17 pm Post subject: need info on 582 rebuilding

ak,  Not arguing but it is  different world with Rotax in the air 

..........

I run in to this all the time and i just throw up my hand -- well great idea 

go for it I say.



They always come back for Rotax parts in the end   



Like i said Your 292 hours did well from new status.  Rebuilds are fine too 

but in 582 the crank is the weak link as well as water pump seals .

Mind you --  proper antifreeze  ( phosphate and silicate free) plus 

distilled water will  help a lot too.

Dave



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Aerobatics(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 6:23 pm Post subject: need info on 582 rebuilding

In a message dated 10/21/2006 8:41:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I am    kinda hard headed at times as I have been racing sleds and we run those WAY    harder and longer than anyone in their right mind would run an engine you are    flying behind.  With that being said, I feel that if I can rebuild /    straighten cranks in race engines (that are straighter than the NEW factory    crank) that go for 100 miles at a time on the bar (WOT 8,200 RPM+) time after    time and stay together year after year, I am not shy about rebuilding this    engine.  I am also not a stupid pilot who takes alot of unnessisary    chances with his life (well ok there have been a few times lol).  I dont    buy into the arguments that you have to buy NEW cranks everytime.  If you    take it down, inspect, mike, etc. and find it within tolerances and put it    back together to specs then I dont have one second thought about flying behind    it.



Just my thoughts



Leni 	


 

 I Just had a 300 hour over haul by www.theultralightplace.com on my  582 Blue head on a  E box ....     I have raced sleds  years ago.  Being born and raised in Montreal Canada, where the snowmobile  was invented.... everyone did  LOL!    Anyway, if I was  to rebuild a sled engine I probably would do it myself and understand where your  coming from. But, going to a pro that ONLY touches aviation Rotax's was my  personal choice for me.

  

 I watched him do his thing and it was well worth every penny.  He has  many years of experience and it showed in the details.   Not to  mention he measured every part recorded it as if he was working on my warrior  2.

  

 His shop was spotless, organized and very well equipped.  And he came  with a reputation before I flew in.

  

 There are other very good aviation Rotax service centers I am sure, but  dont we all speak from our own experiences?  

  

 You might want to ask about the differences between a Gray and Blue head  from Rotax....    Also, going to a E box really is a huge  improvement and adds to crank life.  I made the leap.

  

 Just my thoughts too 

  

 Dave

 KF 2  582

  

  

  [quote][b]

eskflyer(at)lvcisp.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 7:54 pm Post subject: need info on 582 rebuilding

Dave crank is not the weak link the needle bearings are the weak link . 

There is no reason not to rebuild the crank and run it . And I call BS on 

your not believing on the bar throttle runs . Just because you have not done 

it dosent meen it cant be done  . I know AK from along way back and he will 

tell ya the truth and nuttin but the truth Besides that i use to run rotaxes 

in sleds and yes we ran WOT for many many miles and tacked them out all the 

time and hmmmm they hung together for years and no issue.



Just my opinion and only mine no one made me say any of this BS.



Fly safe fly low fly slow fly fun fly KITFOX

John Perry

Kitfox 2 N718PD

582 Cbox  < better than the e box i do believe . i got the clutch

subbie soon

TD / straight floats

Hot pink ivo inflight



DO NOT ARCHIVE

---

akflyer
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 8:03 pm Post subject: Re: need info on 582 rebuilding

ok just to get it back on topic, in the original post I did indeed ask for ROTAX parts...not cheap aftermarket stuff (remember I said I was not a stupid pilot).  I was just looking for a REASONABLE price source.  I know there are a few out there that are not out to rape you and these are the guys I am looking for.



And to refute the other, there is a very big difference in building an engine to make 1/8 mile runs that make big hp.... another animal all together to build one to last and run smooth....



off the box now



Leni



oh yeah... do not archive

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 6:09 am Post subject: need info on 582 rebuilding

I've had excellent dealings with Bob.  I won't say that, unsolicited, about

everyone.  He has a lot of experience, wit planes as well as engines, take

advantage of it.

Noel



[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 6:16 am Post subject: need info on 582 rebuilding

Leni: 



I am sure you can appreciate that there are some changes in the aircraft

engines form the run of the mill Ski-Doo.  Be aware that most of these

engines have been detuned to an extent and the power and torque curves

modified to make them more reliable and usable for aviation.  Keep in mind

that if the engine on the sled goes walk about you lose the race....  If the

fan on the front or back of the plane stops you have good reason to start

sweating.



IMHO if you use the specs of the racing engines with the envelope of the

aviation engine you will have a great set up.



Noel



[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 6:23 am Post subject: need info on 582 rebuilding

South of Montreal in the Eastern  Townships  (Magog??).  I know I'm being picky but I went to school  there! 

  

  

 

Noel [quote]   

   Being born and raised in    Montreal Canada, where the snowmobile was invented.... everyone did     LOL!    Anyway, if I was to rebuild a sled engine I probably    would do it myself and understand where your coming from. But, going to a    pro that ONLY touches aviation Rotax's was my personal choice for    me.

[b]

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 6:26 am Post subject: need info on 582 rebuilding

Give Bob a call.



Noel



[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Aerobatics(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 6:48 am Post subject: need info on 582 rebuilding

In a message dated 10/22/2006 9:32:07 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  South of Montreal in the Eastern Townships     (Magog??).  I know I'm being picky but I went to school there!    	


 

 I am mostly from Bedford PQ  know it?

  

 Lived in Point Claire and Dollard as well.

  

 Graduated from Stansted College  many years ago LOL

  

 Dave

  [quote][b]

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:54 am Post subject: need info on 582 rebuilding

Me too.

  

 Class of '69

  

  

 

Noel [quote]   

   --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

akflyer
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:29 am Post subject: Re: need info on 582 rebuilding

Thanks guys, I will be calling in the morning.



I do know difference in snowmobile versus aircraft use.  My point is that if the engine can be built to stay together for very long distances, in a MUCH more demanding application, then there is not reason that the same cant be done for AC use.  Having them de-rated only adds to what one would expect for the useful life.  As with any engine, careful attention to setup and operation is essential to longengevity.  Jetting with temp changes etc. is a huge issue on keeping the pilot cooling fan turning.  I could go on all day about it but I will leave it as is.



Thanks for all the input, after all, we are here to look after each other and try to make sure we all get back on the ground in one piece.

Aerobatics(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:40 pm Post subject: need info on 582 rebuilding

In a message dated 10/22/2006 10:58:01 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     Me too.

    

   Class of  '69

	


 

 Your Kidding??  

  

 Bugbee house then Davis  you?  Were you there with Mr. Lester as  Dean?

  

 Dave Patrick  

  [quote][b]

Malcolmbru(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 6:02 pm Post subject: need info on 582 rebuilding

Eric tucker said the TBO on a 582 crank in all other countries is 600 hrs  they recommend 300 in the US.  that is what he told me every time I took  his cours (3 times now)  malcolm

  [quote][b]

akflyer
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:41 am Post subject: Re: need info on 582 rebuilding

you just have to love what our wonderful court systems have done for aviation.

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