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1st time engine start

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bobbyhester(at)charter.ne
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:47 pm Post subject: 1st time engine start

I'm hoping to start my XP O-360 engine for the first time Wedensday. I 

remember some discussion a while back about ground runs. This is a new 

engine and I know that when I fly it I should fly it fast til the rings 

seat and oil consumption stabilizes. I think someone said that during 

the inital ground runs that you should keep the cylinder temps below a 

certain temp untill it flys. So what is that temp?



-- 

------

Surfing the web from my laptop in Hopkinsville, KY

Visit my RV7A site: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/

FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:02 pm Post subject: 1st time engine start

In a message dated 10/16/06 8:50:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 

bobbyhester(at)charter.net writes:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I'm hoping to start my XP O-360 engine for the first time Wedensday. I 

  remember some discussion a while back about ground runs. This is a new 

  engine and I know that when I fly it I should fly it fast til the rings 

  seat and oil consumption stabilizes. I think someone said that during 

  the inital ground runs that you should keep the cylinder temps below a 

  certain temp untill it flys. So what is that temp?

======================================
	


Below 450 Deg F as per Lycoming.  But I'm sure with the weather getting 

colder you should be able to keep it around 400 Deg F during cruse.  REMEMBER ... 

If the oil temp increases KEEP the Throttle Pushed IN.  Slowing the engine down 

only causes you to pitch up adding induced drag and makes the engine work 

harder with LESS cooling air being forced in.  I know, I know, it is a hard thing 

to do when human nature says reduce power.



Keep the ground run to a minimum.  Just long enough to verify that you have 

proper Idle RPM and mixture will do a full cut off and the prop pitch function 

(if installed).  Then plan your start up, taxi and take off to keep everything 

to a minimum.  Don't get stuck behind a student!



Barry

"Chop'd Liver"

n320wt(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:50 am Post subject: 1st time engine start

I just completed a piston swap in my 0320 to change from 150 to 160 HP. I was advised to keep the cylinder head temps at 200 or less until the all important first flight. When I did make the first flight I climbed to 5500 and ran full throttle for 5 minutes, 23" map for 5 minutes then 22" for an hour. I did what i need to do to keep the cylinder temps below 400. My cylinder temps dropped 30 degrees 20 minutes into the flight indicating that the rings had seated to the freshly honed cylinders. These are plain steel cylinders and you should expect to see the same thing happen, but it could take several hours with hardened barrels.



BRIAN ALLEY (N320WT) 

CARBON FIBER COMPOSITES

101 Caroline Circle

Hurricane, WV 25526

www.carbonfibercomposites.net

304-562-6800 home

304-395-4932 cell



How are you going to win by a nose if you don't stick out your neck? [quote][b]

phil(at)petrasoft.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:34 am Post subject: 1st time engine start

Bobby,



Congrats on being ready to run the engine.  I had all kinds of trouble 

with my XP-360.  Not so much with the engine, the engine has been GREAT, 

but with the way that it was assembled and adjusted (Not done by 

Superior, it was before they had a build shop).  In any case I probably 

had 5 hours of ground running on the thing before I was brave enough to 

take it flying.  The rings seated just fine at about 12 hours of 

flying.  I have nice low oil consumption (1 qt every 10 hours) and 

everything runs nice and cool.



It's easy to get focused on breaking the engine in properly, but I think 

you'll find that it'll break in fine.  I asked an A&P/IA about it once 

and he said that he never had an engine fail to break in.  If you are 

not comfortable with some aspect of how the engine is running, fix it on 

the ground even if it takes 20 hours of ground running to do it.  Be a 

pilot when you fly the plane and not a mechanic.  If you (the pilot) 

decide that you need to slow down, don't let you (the mechanic) keep you 

from pulling the throttle back.  You can always hone the cylinders later 

if the rings don't seat.  It'll cost you some gaskets and an afternoon, 

but if mine broke in (after I did everything "wrong") then you won't 

have any trouble.



By ignoring those that said "run it once on the ground and then fly it 

hard" I managed to both survive and have a fine running engine. 



As far as what the magic temperature is... I dunno but I'd guess it to 

be around 200 deg for the CHT's.  You should be able to test or adjust 

just about anything you need to before the temps get that high.



Godspeed,



Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas

RV-7 N727WB

http://www.myrv7.com



Bobby Hester wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I'm hoping to start my XP O-360 engine for the first time Wedensday. I 

 remember some discussion a while back about ground runs. This is a new 

 engine and I know that when I fly it I should fly it fast til the 

 rings seat and oil consumption stabilizes. I think someone said that 

 during the inital ground runs that you should keep the cylinder temps 

 below a certain temp untill it flys. So what is that temp?

n616tb(at)btsapps.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:01 am Post subject: 1st time engine start

[quote] --

Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:08 am Post subject: 1st time engine start

Tim,

  

 I would try to find out what the problem is.  Check timing, mixture, baffling especially the exit area.  Do you have inter-cylinder baffles in place?  My CHTs run in the low to mid 300s in cruise flight.  For example, 325, 337, etc.  Only on a long climb would it approach 400, and that is on a very hot day.

  

 Dan Hopper

 RV-7A

  

  

 In a message dated 10/24/2006 12:03:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, n616tb(at)btsapps.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  

200!  I can't get anywhere close to that.  My CHT's have been running easily

over 400.  Yes, I am concerned, but what can I do.  My number 3 is always

the hottest and has been over 450 at times.  Typically they will even out

(except number 1) to around 418-430.  I am going to do some baffling mods to

try to warm up number 1 and cool number 3, but they are pretty tight and not

really any leaks to speak of.  Number 3 has a outlet for the cabin heat

above it - so I will block part of that off.  Number 1 will get a angle in

front of it to deflect some air to the back.



Tim

RV-6

Flying 23 hours now including a reposition to Texas.  What fun! 	


 

  [quote][b]

n616tb(at)btsapps.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:38 am Post subject: 1st time engine start

Wow, that would be nice.  Inter cylinder baffles are in place, mixture seems to be good, but timing I haven’t checked.  

   

Thanks for your comments  

Tim  

           

  

From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hopperdhh(at)aol.com

 Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 9:08 AM

 To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: 1st time engine start  

  

       

   

    

Tim,  

    

   

    

I would try to find out what the problem is.  Check timing, mixture, baffling especially the exit area.  Do you have inter-cylinder baffles in place?  My CHTs run in the low to mid 300s in cruise flight.  For example, 325, 337, etc.  Only on a long climb would it approach 400, and that is on a very hot day.  

    

   

    

Dan Hopper  

    

RV-7A  

    

   

    

   

    

In a message dated 10/24/2006 12:03:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, n616tb(at)btsapps.com writes:  

   	  Quote: 	
		    



 200!  I can't get anywhere close to that.  My CHT's have been running easily

 over 400.  Yes, I am concerned, but what can I do.  My number 3 is always

 the hottest and has been over 450 at times.  Typically they will even out

 (except number 1) to around 418-430.  I am going to do some baffling mods to

 try to warm up number 1 and cool number 3, but they are pretty tight and not

 really any leaks to speak of.  Number 3 has a outlet for the cabin heat

 above it - so I will block part of that off.  Number 1 will get a angle in

 front of it to deflect some air to the back.

 

 Tim

 RV-6

 Flying 23 hours now including a reposition to Texas.  What fun!    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List 	
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        [quote][b]

bicyclop(at)pacbell.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:48 am Post subject: 1st time engine start

Tim,



I think he's referring to ground running temps below 200 and shut down

before it gets hotter.



A dam in front of #1 helped a little on our plane, but what really did

it was to make a little more space for air to flow behind #3. The fins

on the head are very shallow in the back and, with the baffle tight up

against it, not enough air gets through that area.



Pax,



Ed Holyoke



 	  Quote: 	
		   === Snip ========


	




200!  I can't get anywhere close to that.  My CHT's have been running

easily

over 400.  Yes, I am concerned, but what can I do.  My number 3 is

always

the hottest and has been over 450 at times.  Typically they will even

out

(except number 1) to around 418-430.  I am going to do some baffling

mods to

try to warm up number 1 and cool number 3, but they are pretty tight and

not

really any leaks to speak of.  Number 3 has a outlet for the cabin heat

above it - so I will block part of that off.  Number 1 will get a angle

in

front of it to deflect some air to the back.



Tim

RV-6

Flying 23 hours now including a reposition to Texas.  What fun!

T.gummo(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:09 am Post subject: 1st time engine start

My RMI reads in degrees "C".

  

 200 C = 392 F

  

 If you are talking temperatures, you might want to include  which type you are talking about.

  

 Tom Gummo

Apple Valley, CA

Harmon Rocket-II

  

 do not archive

  

 http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html



 [quote]   ---

Hopperdhh(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:40 am Post subject: 1st time engine start

Hi Tom,

  

 You are correct.  I was speaking in degrees Fahrenheit.

  

 Lycoming lists 500 deg F as the maximum during run-in so, Tim, I don't think you have hurt it any.  But, there must be a reason you are seeing what I think are pretty high temps.  Was this on a hot day?  Are you sure that your gauge is calibrated?

  

 A while back someone mentioned flashing on the fins causing high CHTs.

  

 Dan 

  

 Do not archive

  

  

 In a message dated 10/24/2006 1:12:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, T.gummo(at)verizon.net writes:

 [quote] My RMI reads in degrees "C".

  

 200 C = 392 F

  

 If you are talking temperatures, you might want to include which type you are talking about.

  

 Tom Gummo

Apple Valley, CA

Harmon Rocket-II

  

 do not archive

  

 http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html



 [quote] ---

phil(at)petrasoft.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:17 am Post subject: 1st time engine start

We were talking about ground running temperatures of new engines that 

had not yet been "broken in".  I was also guessing.



Godspeed,



Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas

RV-7 N727WB

http://www.myrv7.com



Tim Bryan wrote:

[quote] 



   

> --

walter(at)tondu.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:34 am Post subject: 1st time engine start

On 10/24  9:00, Tim Bryan wrote:



 > 200!  I can't get anywhere close to that.  My CHT's have been running easily

 > over 400.  Yes, I am concerned, but what can I do.  My number 3 is always

 > the hottest and has been over 450 at times.  Typically they will even out

 > (except number 1) to around 418-430.  I am going to do some baffling mods to

 > try to warm up number 1 and cool number 3, but they are pretty tight and not

 > really any leaks to speak of.  Number 3 has a outlet for the cabin heat

 > above it - so I will block part of that off.  Number 1 will get a angle in

 > front of it to deflect some air to the back.

 

Hi Tim,



I had high CHT temps as well but did find the fix.  Air was flowing

out the front center of the baffles and running through the inlet

ramp and out into the lower pressure area outside the baffles.  

Fiberglassing the hole closed on the inside opening solved the problem.



I documented the fix here:  Note the poll results.



http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=8209



-- 

Walter Tondu

http://www.rv7-a.com - Flying!

http://www.evorocket.com - Building

n616tb(at)btsapps.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:40 am Post subject: 1st time engine start

I wouldn’t call these hot days.  Temps in the 70’s on the ground.  The temperatures climb right away on climb out at 110MPH but levels out to around 418 in cruise.  I don’t think my Vision Microsystems VM1000 has any calibration for the CHT or EGT.  Anything above 400 however shows up as in the yellow range.  

   

As soon as I get back down to Texas I will see if I can do some things to help it out.  I will be flying in hot weather.  

Thanks  

Tim  

           

  

From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hopperdhh(at)aol.com

 Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 10:40 AM

 To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: 1st time engine start  

  

       

   

    

   

    

   

    

Hi Tom,  

    

   

    

You are correct.  I was speaking in degrees Fahrenheit.  

    

   

    

Lycoming lists 500 deg F as the maximum during run-in so, Tim, I don't think you have hurt it any.  But, there must be a reason you are seeing what I think are pretty high temps.  Was this on a hot day?  Are you sure that your gauge is calibrated?  

    

   

    

A while back someone mentioned flashing on the fins causing high CHTs.  

    

   

    

Dan   

    

   

    

Do not archive  

    

   

    

   

    

In a message dated 10/24/2006 1:12:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, T.gummo(at)verizon.net writes:  

  [quote]    

My RMI reads in degrees "C".  

    

   

    

200 C = 392 F  

    

   

    

If you are talking temperatures, you might want to include which type you are talking about.  

    

   

    

Tom Gummo

 Apple Valley, CA

 Harmon Rocket-II  

    

   

    

do not archive  

    

   

    

http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html  

  [quote]    

---

n616tb(at)btsapps.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:55 am Post subject: 1st time engine start

Walter,



This is great information.  I have been concerned about this area, but

didn't believe it could cause this problem.  I would think once the air is

through the inlets and inside the upper cowl it wouldn't be a problem.  I

may have not used good thinking.  I will be sure to check this area and make

sure I have closed up all gaps.  



I have been given lots of ideas from this list regarding solving this

problem.  Now I just need to get back to my plane so I can work on solving

it.  Boy I will enjoy the cooler temps when I get them. 

Tim



[quote] --

ronlee(at)pcisys.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:01 pm Post subject: 1st time engine start

I solved my CHT problem by improving the exit air side.



Ron Lee

n616tb(at)btsapps.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:51 pm Post subject: 1st time engine start

Can you elaborate on this?  What did you do?



Tim



[quote] --

Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:27 pm Post subject: 1st time engine start

Walter and Tim,

  

 I solved that leak by running the side baffles clear to the front and top of the cowl.  That is, the baffling seals to the top of the cowl outside of the ramps.  I have to reach in and guide the baffle seal outside of the ramps when I install the upper cowl.  This was the natural thing to do with my 200HP angle valve installation which, I think, may fill up the front of the cowl more than an O320 does -- not sure about this, though.  I did, however, make special vertical fiberglass pieces that seal the inboard ends of the upper inlets to the engine baffles.

  

 This has been an interesting thread.  It is amazing to me that the amount of cooling air is optimized so well.  What a great design.  Vans deserves a lot of credit, which we are constantly giving them!

  

 Dan Hopper

 Walton, IN

 RV-7A -- Back flying with new nose gear, etc., etc.

  

  

 In a message dated 10/24/2006 2:36:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, walter(at)tondu.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV-List message posted by: Walter Tondu <walter(at)tondu.com>



On 10/24  9:00, Tim Bryan wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   200!  I can't get anywhere close to that.  My CHT's have been running easily

 over 400.  Yes, I am concerned, but what can I do.  My number 3 is always

 the hottest and has been over 450 at times.  Typically they will even out

 (except number 1) to around 418-430.  I am going to do some baffling mods to

 try to warm up number 1 and cool number 3, but they are pretty tight and not

 really any leaks to speak of.  Number 3 has a outlet for the cabin heat

 above it - so I will block part of that off.  Number 1 will get a angle in

 front of it to deflect some air to the back.


	


Hi Tim,



I had high CHT temps as well but did find the fix.  Air was flowing

out the front center of the baffles and running through the inlet

ramp and out into the lower pressure area outside the baffles.  

Fiberglassing the hole closed on the inside opening solved the problem.



I documented the fix here:  Note the poll results.



http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=8209



-- 

Walter Tondu

http://www.rv7-a.com - Flying!

http://www.evorocket.com - Buildin========================

sp;             -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

_======== 	


 

  [quote][b]

Erich_Weaver(at)URSCorp.c
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:53 pm Post subject: 1st time engine start

Walter wrote:



"air was flowing out the front center of the baffles and running through

the inlet ramp and out into the lower pressure area outside the baffles".



I want to understand this better, as I am currently 'getting baffled' on my

-7A.  Why was air flowing out the front center of the baffles?  Do you mean

that it just pushes right through the seal material and there is really

nothing that could easily fix the problem at that location (instead of the

documented fix at the ramps)?

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