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tonyplane(at)bellsouth.ne
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 Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 8:15 am Post subject: Main Gear Orientation (was) Zenairs & Snow, |
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For what its worth:
I have a Jab 3300 and Aux tanks installed in my XL, and my CG is really
great for all normal loading conditions and fuel states (weird loadings or
child weight pilots with full fuel not considered).
I have seriously considered turning my main gear around to meet the latest
dwg, thus moving the wheel CG location a little more forward because:
1. I have to pull the aircraft off the runway to become airborne,. It will
not fly itself off. (my inflight trim is alomst zero on the trim tab),
This is no big deal though, but
2. For my XL, I found during test flight that if you set up a high sink
rate above stall speed airspeed condition esp with flaps to let the aircraft
land itself ( an "arrival" as you can do in a Cessna vice a regular
landing ) you will be bounced into the air and flying again with PIO
potential. Going into my third progessively hard bounce (great nose gear,
but I have an 801 nose fork with 6x600 tires) I realized what was happening
and flew out of the condition - I had never before gotten into a PIO
situation. I encountered this situation twice more since test flights (but
not recently- I did learn really watch my landing airspeed more closely when
using flaps. As an aside, I can land my airplane at high airspeed without
flaps, just watch that sink rate).
3. On my XL, I can not hold the nose off on landing - once the mains are on
the ground the nose WILL immediately come down. with only my 195 lb self
onboard
I have put the following statement in my POH
CAUTION
WATCH SINK RATE AND AIR SPEED: with the landing gear geometry of 493TG, a
High sink rate combined with High air speed at touch down will result in the
nose gear hitting the runway HARD. and bouncing the airplane airborne. IF
THIS HAPPENS - GO AROUND or initiate a BOUNCE RECOVERY! Pilot Induced
Oscillation (PIO) can result under this condition if landing is attempted.
Tony Graziano
601XL; N493TG 165 hrs
-----------------------------
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Juan Vega
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 2:22 PM
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Zenairs & Snow,
On this note of the plane on balance- The plans for the 601 xl show the
flat part of the main gear facing forward, yet other planes are facing back.
I called the shop and they put the flat part forward based on the Jabiru
being heavier and the plane would fly off on take off versus having to
unstick it. Any thoughts, mine is in place flat side forward. but if push
comes to shove I can turn the mains araound.
Juan
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craig(at)craigandjean.com
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| Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:07 am Post subject: Main Gear Orientation (was) Zenairs & Snow, |
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Tony, just to be specific - is the straight edge on the front or back of
your main gear?
-- Craig
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tonyplane(at)bellsouth.ne
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:37 am Post subject: Main Gear Orientation (was) Zenairs & Snow, |
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Craig,
The straight edge is on the back of my gear. If I were to turn it around, my wheels would move forward, closer to the CG.
Tony
-----------------------------------------
RE: Re: Main Gear Orientation (was) Zenairs & Snow,
From: Craig Payne (craig(at)craigandjean.com ([email]craig(at)craigandjean.com?subject=RE:%20Re:%20Main%20Gear%20Orientation%20(was)%20Zenairs%20&%20Snow,&replyto=022601c6fd0e$6401010a(at)northamerica.corp.microsoft.com[/email])) Date: [b]Tue Oct 31 - 9:07 AM[/b] | Quote: | | Quote: | --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com ([email]craig(at)craigandjean.com?subject=RE:%20Re:%20Main%20Gear%20Orientation%20(was)%20Zenairs%20&%20Snow,&replyto=022601c6fd0e$6401010a(at)northamerica.corp.microsoft.com[/email])>
Tony, just to be specific - is the straight edge on the front or back of
your main gear?
-- Craig
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[quote][b]
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lgingell
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 50
Location: Lake California Airpark 68CA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:40 am Post subject: Re: Main Gear Orientation (was) Zenairs & Snow, |
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I'm a 'child weight' pilot  Here's how my XL flies...
I'm just under 120lbs. With full fuel (2 x 12 gal) in my XL, and nothing in the baggage, I'm at about forward CG.
I have a Jabriu 3300 and the gear positioned the 'old' way (wheels further back).
When flying solo, I always have to pull the nose up to begin flying. I can land without 'thunking' down the nosewheel, but it has to be a very good landing...even then the nosewheel is down pretty quick. (half flaps in this configuration).
As soon as I add a passenger (160lbs +), this improves, and the airplane will fly off and I can (if its a good landing) hold the nosewheel off a bit. (again, half flaps).
I tend to fly 'over the fence' at about 60-65knots indicated with half flaps....getting down to about 50-55 by the time the mains touch.
I ended up putting my spare jacket, spark plug, emergency blanket, towbar etc. in the baggage compartment to move the CG back. This helps, landings, but the airplane still needs a little tug on takeoff to start flying.
I've never had too much in the way of bouncing/PIO in the configurations/speeds above. Even landing 10knts faster. With no flaps, the nose can be way high at touchdown, and without enough speed I could see it coming down pretty fast. ....but I don't have 4 tanks pulling the CG forward (although I'm 120lbs which probably gets the CG in a similar, but less forward spot).
If the gear is reversed, then you can't have two people board at the same time (nose will raise, tail tie down will graze), as I understand it.
Also, the brakes would be reversed/or need re-grinding of the gear egde to fit.
Sounds like it may be worth it with 4 tanks though.
..lance
http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp
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_________________
Zodiac XL/Jab 3300
http://lancegingell.com |
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lgingell
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 50
Location: Lake California Airpark 68CA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:41 am Post subject: Re: Main Gear Orientation (was) Zenairs & Snow, |
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I'm a 'child weight' pilot Here's how my XL flies...
I'm just under 120lbs. With full fuel (2 x 12 gal) in my XL, and nothing in the baggage, I'm at about forward CG.
I have a Jabriu 3300 and the gear positioned the 'old' way (wheels further back).
When flying solo, I always have to pull the nose up to begin flying. I can land without 'thunking' down the nosewheel, but it has to be a very good landing...even then the nosewheel is down pretty quick. (half flaps in this configuration).
As soon as I add a passenger (160lbs +), this improves, and the airplane will fly off and I can (if its a good landing) hold the nosewheel off a bit. (again, half flaps).
I tend to fly 'over the fence' at about 60-65knots indicated with half flaps....getting down to about 50-55 by the time the mains touch.
I ended up putting my spare jacket, spark plug, emergency blanket, towbar etc. in the baggage compartment to move the CG back. This helps, landings, but the airplane still needs a little tug on takeoff to start flying.
I've never had too much in the way of bouncing/PIO in the configurations/speeds above. Even landing 10knts faster. With no flaps, the nose can be way high at touchdown, and without enough speed I could see it coming down pretty fast. ....but I don't have 4 tanks pulling the CG forward (although I'm 120lbs which probably gets the CG in a similar, but less forward spot).
If the gear is reversed, then you can't have two people board at the same time (nose will raise, tail tie down will graze), as I understand it.
Also, the brakes would be reversed/or need re-grinding of the gear egde to fit.
Sounds like it may be worth it with 4 tanks though.
..lance
http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp
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_________________
Zodiac XL/Jab 3300
http://lancegingell.com |
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