Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - Electric flap actuator

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Electric flap actuator

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Zenith-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

taffy0687(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:20 pm Post subject: Electric flap actuator

Scott--- Could you please  give more information on you electric flap actuator. Price? where you pruchased it etc ?

  

 Thank you

  

 Fritz  601 XL, 90/90-- Corvair

 Do not archive

 ---

nfivesl(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:43 am Post subject: Electric flap actuator

Hi Fritz:



I'd go with the model number and source Craig Payne posted.  (Item# 5-1577-2 has 2 inches of travel while 5-1577-4 has 4.  The companion controller can memorize intermediate stops: 5-1577-C. Each of  these are well under $100. www.surpluscenter.com)



He has a great talent for finding stuff!  Thanks Craig - I'll save the information if I need another one later.  



Just to elaborate on what Craig said - you need to make the linkage so it uses up all of the travel (I used a 4" actuator) in both directions.  Make the linkage adjustable so you can tweak it once it is installed.   It's not that hard to do and I'm really happy with the way mine works.  



----- Original Message  ----

From: Big Gee <taffy0687(at)yahoo.com>



Scott--- Could you please  give more information on you electric flap actuator. Price? where you pruchased it etc ?

  

 Thank you

  

 Fritz  601 XL, 90/90-- Corvair

 [quote][b]

jean-paul.roy4(at)tlb.sym
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:24 am Post subject: Electric flap actuator

I'm just thinking out loud here. Would two small  limit swithes could control the travel lenght?

  

 Jean-Paul

 CH701 wings

 do not archive

 [quote]   ---

taffy0687(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:14 am Post subject: Electric flap actuator

I'll  let someone else answer about the limit switches ( I believe they would work).  But, the reason I like the way Scott did his (  build linkage so full travel is used) is because there are less things that can go wrong  ( limit switch coming out of adjustment) or breaking  etc. 

  

 Fritz

 do not archive

 ---

NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:28 am Post subject: Electric flap actuator

I used a similar actuator and if you open up the housing, you are able to  move the location of he existing micro switches. They are already in place ,  just need to be relocated.

  

 Bob Spudis

 N701ZX   CH701/912S

  

  

 In a message dated 11/3/2006 10:15:59 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  taffy0687(at)yahoo.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     I'll     let someone else answer about the limit switches ( I believe they would    work).  But, the reason I like the way Scott did his (  build    linkage so full travel is used) is because there are less things that can go    wrong  ( limit switch coming out of adjustment) or breaking  etc.    

    

   Fritz

	


 

  

  [quote][b]

nfivesl(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:31 am Post subject: Electric flap actuator

Jean-Paul:



If you look into this completely I think you will come to the same conclusion I did.  The unit has internal limit switches.  It stops when reaching the end of travel in both directions.  This is perfect since the limit switches are out of site and never need adjusting.  Adding limit switches just adds complexity and another failure mode. 



All you have to do is design the linkage so that when the actuator extends fully, you have a fully extended flap.  Likewise when the actuator travels the other way and reaches the limit, the flap is fully retracted.  This was very easy to do and the result is a light, maintenance-free unit.  I'm not sure why ZAC uses the heavy, complex  actuator but I spoke to Nick about this some time ago and he said my system was fine.  He indicated that ZAC gets all of their stuff from aircraft suppliers such as Aircraft Spruce and the actuator I'm using is not in the ACS catalog.  



I'm not knocking the ZAC system - it works fine, but if you are plans-building, there are other ways to do it.



Scott Laughlin

www.cooknwithgas.com

working on BRS final installation details

---

Malcolm.HUNT(at)networkra
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:25 am Post subject: Electric flap actuator

For those plans builders who wish to retain the Zenith arrangement the flap actuator is manufactured by Commercial Aircraft Products in Wichita part no D145-00-36-3 and comes complete with micro switches.   I have just received one which cost $499.90 plus shipping.  

   

Best regards  

   

Malcolm Hunt  

CH601XL Plans Builder in England   

         

  

From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Big Gee

 Sent: 03 November 2006 15:14

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Electric flap actuator  

  

       

I'll  let someone else answer about the limit switches ( I believe they would work).  But, the reason I like the way Scott did his (  build linkage so full travel is used) is because there are less things that can go wrong  ( limit switch coming out of adjustment) or breaking  etc.   

    

   

    

Fritz  

    

do not archive  

    

----- Original Message ----

 From: Jean-Paul Roy <jean-paul.roy4(at)tlb.sympatico.ca>

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Sent: Friday, November 3, 2006 9:14:35 AM

 Subject: Re: Electric flap actuator    

I'm just thinking out loud here. Would two small limit swithes could control the travel lenght?  

    

   

    

Jean-Paul  

    

CH701 wings  

    

do not archive  

  [quote]    

---

VideoFlyer(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:33 am Post subject: Electric flap actuator

Actually, there ARE limit switches inside the actuator.  They are not meant to be adjustable, but they are...IF you don't mind doing a little soldering.  They are mounted on a plastic rail and are almost infinitely adjustable.  You may need to lengthen (or shorten) a wire, but the limit switch will just snap into a new position on the rail.   It's actually a very simple operation...but it will probably void any warranty that comes with the unit.  

 

 I am using an actuator similar, if not identical to the one Scott used.  It has a 200 lb force stroke....and moves at about 1/3 inch per second...perfect for flap control.   I used a 9 inch actuator because it was the right length to fit between the two pivot points.  That way I didn't have to fabricate an extension.  Then I adjusted the limit switches so that I am using about the middle 3 inches of travel.  

 

 http://www.firgelliauto.com/product_info.php?cPath=75&products_id=2

 

 (I see they're on sale!)

 

 

 

 Dave Harms

 videoflyer(at)aol.com

 601XL/Corvair  [quote][b]

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 9:31 am Post subject: Electric flap actuator

One downside to moving  the internal limit switches on these units is that you will no longer have full  travel on the internal position sensor. So if you connect the sensor to a Ray  Allen position indicator (or something like it) you won't be able to drive the  indicator across its full range.

  

 Clearly this is a matter  of degree. If you use 3 inches of travel of a 4 inch actuator you should get  indication across 3/4 of the display. But if you use 3 inches of a 9 inch  actuator you won't get much range at all. Also the internal position sensor is  not present in all models so if you want it make sure it is called out in the  model you order.

  

 -- Craig

  

   [quote][b]

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:54 am Post subject: Electric flap actuator

>>  He has a great talent for  finding stuff!  Thanks Craig - I'll save the information if I need another  one later.  

 

 I think Doug Eatman found Surplus Center and the linear  actuators first. I just saved the link.

  

 -- Craig 

   [quote][b]

NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 3:10 pm Post subject: Electric flap actuator

Or use an external position sensor like I did from Ray Allen.

  

 Bob Spudis

  

  

  

 In a message dated 11/3/2006 12:32:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  craig(at)craigandjean.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     One downside to moving    the internal limit switches on these units is that you will no longer have    full travel on the internal position sensor. So if you connect the sensor to a    Ray Allen position indicator (or something like it) you won't be able to drive    the indicator across its full range.

    

   Clearly this is a    matter of degree. If you use 3 inches of travel of a 4 inch actuator you    should get indication across 3/4 of the display. But if you use 3 inches of a    9 inch actuator you won't get much range at all. Also the internal position    sensor is not present in all models so if you want it make sure it is called    out in the model you order.

    

   --    Craig

	


 

  

  [quote][b]

jean-paul.roy4(at)tlb.sym
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 3:36 pm Post subject: Electric flap actuator

That makes good sense. Thank Scott

  

 Jean-Paul

 do not archive

 [quote]   ---

TxDave

Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 168
Location: Temple, TX

Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:01 pm Post subject: Re: Electric flap actuator

Hey Malcolm,

I was lucky and found the exact flap actuator ZAC shows in the plans on ebay. Brand new, in the box for $45. ZAC has now changed to a linear actuator similar to the one Scott used. They said the one in the plans was just too expensive.



Dave Clay

Temple, TX

http://www.daves601xl.com

rvickski(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:45 am Post subject: Electric flap actuator

The controller could be replaced by an  automotive 

power window switch, a M Benz rear door switch would

do nicely, DC rated, relatively compact, straight

forward mounting. Of course the throw and center

position would need to be mechanically set ala pre

computor RC aircraft radio/servo.



Roy, 701 Michigan USA

LHusky(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:04 pm Post subject: Electric flap actuator

I have a current price list sent to my by Shirley at ZAC.  It shows  $584.84 for part number D145-0036-3.  Is there something different  now?

  

 Larry Husky  

Lakeview, OR 

601XL / Corvair

Building Fuse



Do Not  Archive

  [quote][b]

paulrod36(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:04 pm Post subject: Electric flap actuator

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  I'm not quite to the installation phase yet, but I bought one of those  linear actuators, and was wondering: If you leave it alone, and use the flap arm  as designed, would the flaps just move further down with the 4-inch stroke, or  would they hit something? Since I haven't mounted the wings yet, I don't know  the answer. It seems to me that with a 4-inch stroke you just wind up with more  flap than you'd need, as in 45 or 50 degrees travel, instead of 40 degrees.  Could make for an impressively short landing roll????????

  

 Paul Rodriguez

 601XL/Corvair

 [quote]   ---

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:35 pm Post subject: Electric flap actuator

With the linkage as  specified in the plans 4 inches is *way* too much travel. The factory set-up  needs under 2 inches of travel. Ignoring the slots in the sides of the fuselage  the movement is limited by the cross-member in front of the axle that spans the  fuselage. The forward motion is limited by the arm bolted to the axle hitting  the back of the member. The rearward motion is stopped when the bottom of the  tube from the actuator hits the top of the member. Of course if you lengthen the  arm from the axle you can change all this geometry.

  

 -- Craig

  

   [quote][b]

nfivesl(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 6:27 am Post subject: Electric flap actuator

Hi Paul:



I know this can be confusing, but in my explaination below I didn't mention that you use the same flap travel as shown in the plans.  The only thing you change is the linkage so that when the flap travels the correct amount of travel (shown in the plans) that it uses up all of the travel of the actuator.  



The way you do this is to lengthen the arm on the torque tube that is inside the fuselage and manipulate the length of the actuator (make an extension) so that the uses up all the travel while the flaps travel the specified path as shown on the drawings.  I used an actuator with 4" of travel becuase it was given to me and it works.  If you can do the same thing with 2" of travel, then that  will work too.



Clear as mud?



Scott Laughlin

Omaha, Nebraska

www.cooknwithgas.com



---

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:11 am Post subject: Re: Electric flap actuator

 	  taffy0687(at)yahoo.com wrote: 	
		  I'll  let someone else answer about the limit switches ( I believe they would work).  But, the reason I like the way Scott did his (  build linkage so full travel is used) is because there are less things that can go wrong  ( limit switch coming out of adjustment) or breaking  etc. 

  

 Fritz

 do not archive

 --- 	




Yes, I think a positive stop is the best. You could use a limit switch just before the positve stop, but I'd still have a positive stop too.

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Zenith-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum