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AV8ORJWC
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"
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jesse(at)itecusa.org
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 Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 5:43 am Post subject: Okay - Okay tell me I'm just sarcastic on the RV-12 |
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Well, I’d have to say that the whole RV-12 project is kind of “thinking outside the box” for Van’s. It had to be. Full-sized prepunched holes. Pop rivets. Quick-remove wings. No wet-wing. Rotax engine. Stabilator. Flaperons? Every one of these is a first. When you remove the steam gauges to go glass, then tilting the panel is a lot easier since they don’t expect anybody to have gyros in there (am I right that gyros have to be level unless purchased with a 7 degree tilt?). Also, there wasn’t nearly the selection of cheap glass 4 years ago that “does it all”. I agree that they will probably not remove the panel ribs (yes, out of shear stubbornness), but also because there are 60 -10’s flying and everybody so far has found a way (literally) either around or through the ribs. On the other hand, most glass fits fairly well with only slight modification of the outside rib(s), and can be done with no modification of the middle rib if desired. Also, with probably not the range of motion in the pilot’s seat, it is a lot easier to determine the general angle that you would need for a perpendicular panel, which is not as true with the -10.
I agree that they are to be applauded on the -12. They will sell a TON of kits, to be sure. Can you imagine the amount of time saved by not having to match drill, disassemble, debur, dimple, reassemble, then buck? What, not flush rivets? Cleco the wing together and pop those rivets! Also, with no fiberglass on the plane except the cowling and possibly some emp tip fairings, that will make it even faster. So, how many hours do ya’ll think is going to be the “estimate build time”? Do I hear 500?
On the 396 note, has anybody noticed that the Gizmos guys have made an angle adapter that holds the 396 tray at an angle so it can be easily put on the right side of the panel? It really works well and makes for a very clean/neat installation.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org (jesse(at)itecusa.org)
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 9:37 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Okay - Okay tell me I'm just sarcastic on the RV-12
After studying in-depth the VANS website on the RV-12, am I mistaken or is glass EFIS okay for the RV-12 but not for an RV-10 where the panel ribs were intentionally placed to interfere with glass EFIS insertion. Amber Peterson, Rian Johnson and Phil Rivall are to be commended for bringing VANS into the 21st century (only six years late) with Solidworks engineering. It was also exciting to see them incorporate a panel insert for a Garmin 496/396/296 or 196. Now anyone want to take bets they will never ever redesign the panel ribs on the RV-10 out of shear stubbornness? [/url]
Did anyone else note the ergonomically canted panel as well. Directly perpendicular into the pilot’s eyes for ease of scanning.
[url=http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/RV-12/12crew_prepares.jpg]http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/RV-12/12crew_prepares.jpg
John Cox
#40600
Do not Archive | Quote: | | www.aeroelectric.com |
0123456789012345
-- Date: 11/13/2006
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
11/13/2006
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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jjessen
Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 285
Location: OR
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:43 am Post subject: Okay - Okay tell me I'm just sarcastic on the RV-12 |
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Gizmo guys?
do not archive
| Quote: | From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 5:42 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Okay - Okay tell me I'm just sarcastic on the RV-12
Well, I’d have to say that the whole RV-12 project is kind of “thinking outside the box” for Van’s. It had to be. Full-sized prepunched holes. Pop rivets. Quick-remove wings. No wet-wing. Rotax engine. Stabilator. Flaperons? Every one of these is a first. When you remove the steam gauges to go glass, then tilting the panel is a lot easier since they don’t expect anybody to have gyros in there (am I right that gyros have to be level unless purchased with a 7 degree tilt?). Also, there wasn’t nearly the selection of cheap glass 4 years ago that “does it all”. I agree that they will probably not remove the panel ribs (yes, out of shear stubbornness), but also because there are 60 -10’s flying and everybody so far has found a way (literally) either around or through the ribs. On the other hand, most glass fits fairly well with only slight modification of the outside rib(s), and can be done with no modification of the middle rib if desired. Also, with probably not the range of motion in the pilot’s seat, it is a lot easier to determine the general angle that you would need for a perpendicular panel, which is not as true with the -10.
I agree that they are to be applauded on the -12. They will sell a TON of kits, to be sure. Can you imagine the amount of time saved by not having to match drill, disassemble, debur, dimple, reassemble, then buck? What, not flush rivets? Cleco the wing together and pop those rivets! Also, with no fiberglass on the plane except the cowling and possibly some emp tip fairings, that will make it even faster. So, how many hours do ya’ll think is going to be the “estimate build time”? Do I hear 500?
On the 396 note, has anybody noticed that the Gizmos guys have made an angle adapter that holds the 396 tray at an angle so it can be easily put on the right side of the panel? It really works well and makes for a very clean/neat installation.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org (jesse(at)itecusa.org)
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 9:37 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Okay - Okay tell me I'm just sarcastic on the RV-12
After studying in-depth the VANS website on the RV-12, am I mistaken or is glass EFIS okay for the RV-12 but not for an RV-10 where the panel ribs were intentionally placed to interfere with glass EFIS insertion. Amber Peterson, Rian Johnson and Phil Rivall are to be commended for bringing VANS into the 21st century (only six years late) with Solidworks engineering. It was also exciting to see them incorporate a panel insert for a Garmin 496/396/296 or 196. Now anyone want to take bets they will never ever redesign the panel ribs on the RV-10 out of shear stubbornness? [/url]
Did anyone else note the ergonomically canted panel as well. Directly perpendicular into the pilot’s eyes for ease of scanning.
[url=http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/RV-12/12crew_prepares.jpg]http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/RV-12/12crew_prepares.jpg
John Cox
#40600
Do not Archive | Quote: | | www.aeroelectric.com |
0123456789012345
-- Date: 11/13/2006
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
11/13/2006
6 |
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:30 am Post subject: Okay - Okay tell me I'm just sarcastic on the RV-12 |
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www.airgizmos.com
Dan
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 10:42 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Okay - Okay tell me I'm just sarcastic on the RV-12
Gizmo guys?
do not archive
| Quote: | From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 5:42 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Okay - Okay tell me I'm just sarcastic on the RV-12
Well, I’d have to say that the whole RV-12 project is kind of “thinking outside the box” for Van’s. It had to be. Full-sized prepunched holes. Pop rivets. Quick-remove wings. No wet-wing. Rotax engine. Stabilator. Flaperons? Every one of these is a first. When you remove the steam gauges to go glass, then tilting the panel is a lot easier since they don’t expect anybody to have gyros in there (am I right that gyros have to be level unless purchased with a 7 degree tilt?). Also, there wasn’t nearly the selection of cheap glass 4 years ago that “does it all”. I agree that they will probably not remove the panel ribs (yes, out of shear stubbornness), but also because there are 60 -10’s flying and everybody so far has found a way (literally) either around or through the ribs. On the other hand, most glass fits fairly well with only slight modification of the outside rib(s), and can be done with no modification of the middle rib if desired. Also, with probably not the range of motion in the pilot’s seat, it is a lot easier to determine the general angle that you would need for a perpendicular panel, which is not as true with the -10.
I agree that they are to be applauded on the -12. They will sell a TON of kits, to be sure. Can you imagine the amount of time saved by not having to match drill, disassemble, debur, dimple, reassemble, then buck? What, not flush rivets? Cleco the wing together and pop those rivets! Also, with no fiberglass on the plane except the cowling and possibly some emp tip fairings, that will make it even faster. So, how many hours do ya’ll think is going to be the “estimate build time”? Do I hear 500?
On the 396 note, has anybody noticed that the Gizmos guys have made an angle adapter that holds the 396 tray at an angle so it can be easily put on the right side of the panel? It really works well and makes for a very clean/neat installation.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org (jesse(at)itecusa.org)
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 9:37 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Okay - Okay tell me I'm just sarcastic on the RV-12
After studying in-depth the VANS website on the RV-12, am I mistaken or is glass EFIS okay for the RV-12 but not for an RV-10 where the panel ribs were intentionally placed to interfere with glass EFIS insertion. Amber Peterson, Rian Johnson and Phil Rivall are to be commended for bringing VANS into the 21st century (only six years late) with Solidworks engineering. It was also exciting to see them incorporate a panel insert for a Garmin 496/396/296 or 196. Now anyone want to take bets they will never ever redesign the panel ribs on the RV-10 out of shear stubbornness? [/url]
Did anyone else note the ergonomically canted panel as well. Directly perpendicular into the pilot’s eyes for ease of scanning.
[url=http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/RV-12/12crew_prepares.jpg]http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/RV-12/12crew_prepares.jpg
John Cox
#40600
Do not Archive | Quote: | | www.aeroelectric.com |
0123456789012345
-- Date: 11/13/2006
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
11/13/2006
6 |
7 [quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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armywrights(at)adelphia.n
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:31 pm Post subject: Okay - Okay tell me I'm just sarcastic on the RV-12 |
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Vans and Garmin are working on a way to have the G900 installed with no panel rib mods… more to follow!
Rob Wright
#392
Fuse
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 8:37 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Okay - Okay tell me I'm just sarcastic on the RV-12
After studying in-depth the VANS website on the RV-12, am I mistaken or is glass EFIS okay for the RV-12 but not for an RV-10 where the panel ribs were intentionally placed to interfere with glass EFIS insertion. Amber Peterson, Rian Johnson and Phil Rivall are to be commended for bringing VANS into the 21st century (only six years late) with Solidworks engineering. It was also exciting to see them incorporate a panel insert for a Garmin 496/396/296 or 196. Now anyone want to take bets they will never ever redesign the panel ribs on the RV-10 out of shear stubbornness? [/url]
Did anyone else note the ergonomically canted panel as well. Directly perpendicular into the pilot’s eyes for ease of scanning.
[url=http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/RV-12/12crew_prepares.jpg]http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/RV-12/12crew_prepares.jpg
John Cox
#40600
Do not Archive | Quote: | | www.aeroelectric.com |
0123456789012345
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:56 pm Post subject: Okay - Okay tell me I'm just sarcastic on the RV-12 |
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Cool, half the functionality and twice the price of a Chelton/Op Tech/GRT system. But then again, no rib mods. Wake up Van’s and change what’s there!
Michael
Do not archive my sarcasm. Heh
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Wright
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 6:30 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Okay - Okay tell me I'm just sarcastic on the RV-12
Vans and Garmin are working on a way to have the G900 installed with no panel rib mods… more to follow!
Rob Wright
#392
Fuse
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 8:37 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Okay - Okay tell me I'm just sarcastic on the RV-12
After studying in-depth the VANS website on the RV-12, am I mistaken or is glass EFIS okay for the RV-12 but not for an RV-10 where the panel ribs were intentionally placed to interfere with glass EFIS insertion. Amber Peterson, Rian Johnson and Phil Rivall are to be commended for bringing VANS into the 21st century (only six years late) with Solidworks engineering. It was also exciting to see them incorporate a panel insert for a Garmin 496/396/296 or 196. Now anyone want to take bets they will never ever redesign the panel ribs on the RV-10 out of shear stubbornness?
Did anyone else note the ergonomically canted panel as well. Directly perpendicular into the pilot’s eyes for ease of scanning.
http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/RV-12/12crew_prepares.jpg
John Cox
#40600
Do not Archive [quote] www.aeroelectric.comwww.kitlog.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List [b][b]www.aeroelectric.comwww.homebuilthelp.com[b][b][b][b][/b][/b][/b][/b]http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List [b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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jhstarn(at)verizon.net
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:03 pm Post subject: Okay - Okay tell me I'm just sarcastic on the RV-12 |
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Have not built a -10, have not helped out on one.....yet.
But I'm going to ask the question anyway.
The RV-10, just like those Van's aircraft before it, is built as an "experimental" so that means IF Van's builds it one way & you want the modify it so it will take say a Ford V-8, or without a back seat so you can haul surfboards or you want a gas pedal instead of a push/pull throttle control.
Change it to fit YOUR needs, Van's builds kits for everyone. He sells KITS not airplanes. If you don't like the panel rib set up because it doesn't fit your wants and/or needs...change it.
We took some RV-4 parts & other parts from John Harmon, an IO-540 from a Skybolt and made it into a "personalized" Rocket II.
Don't ask Van to change his design to fit your needs, change YOUR airplane to fit your wants/needs.
Besides right now "I WANT " Van to concentrate on the RV-12 kit. AND I will build my RV-12, MY WAY. I've ask the question too.
Why put a complete IFR glass panel in a VFR daylight LSA airplane like the RV-12 ?. Maybe Van wants HIS RV-12 to fit HIS wants & needs. He makes HIS, you make YOURS. KABONG Do Not Archive. 8*)
[quote] ---
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 6:45 am Post subject: Okay - Okay tell me I'm just sarcastic on the RV-12 |
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Just in case you have a spare $60k laying around?
Dan
N289DT RV10E
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Wright
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 7:30 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Okay - Okay tell me I'm just sarcastic on the RV-12
Vans and Garmin are working on a way to have the G900 installed with no panel rib mods… more to follow!
Rob Wright
#392
Fuse
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 8:37 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Okay - Okay tell me I'm just sarcastic on the RV-12
After studying in-depth the VANS website on the RV-12, am I mistaken or is glass EFIS okay for the RV-12 but not for an RV-10 where the panel ribs were intentionally placed to interfere with glass EFIS insertion. Amber Peterson, Rian Johnson and Phil Rivall are to be commended for bringing VANS into the 21st century (only six years late) with Solidworks engineering. It was also exciting to see them incorporate a panel insert for a Garmin 496/396/296 or 196. Now anyone want to take bets they will never ever redesign the panel ribs on the RV-10 out of shear stubbornness? [/url]
Did anyone else note the ergonomically canted panel as well. Directly perpendicular into the pilot’s eyes for ease of scanning.
[url=http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/RV-12/12crew_prepares.jpg]http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/RV-12/12crew_prepares.jpg
John Cox
#40600
Do not Archive | Quote: | | www.aeroelectric.com |
0123456789012345
6 [quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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