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fuel pressure gauge

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videoflyer(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 7:24 am Post subject: fuel pressure gauge

I was looking at fuel pressure gauges for my plane.  The price difference between electrical and mechanical gauges is significant.  Does anyone feel uncomfortable with a mechanical fuel pressure gauge mounted on their instrument panel?

    

    

   Dave Harms

 601XL//Corvair

    

    [quote][b]

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:36 am Post subject: fuel pressure gauge

In the car world they flatly state that fuel pressure  gauges should be mounted outside the passenger compartment (like on the hood  where you can see it). There is enough concern about this that VDO sells a thing  called a fuel pressure isolator. This is basically a diaphragm that goes between  the fuel line and the gauge and mounts forward of the firewall. The fuel lives  on one side of the diaphragm while the other side is filled with water and  antifreeze. The VDO part number is 240830

  

 www.egauges.com/pdf/vdo/0-515-010-554.pdf

  

 Auto Meter also sells one. Search Summit Racing's web site for  "isolator".

  

 But these sell for between $80 and $100. So an electric gauge  with sender may end up being just as cheap. If you go with an  electronic engine monitor all you will need is the sender. Plus an engine  monitor will watch the pressure for you (along with the engine's other vital  signs) and generate an alarm if it drops too low.

  

 -- Craig

  

   [quote][b]

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 12:35 pm Post subject: fuel pressure gauge

Racing cars don't have fuel  lines passing through the passenger compartment....  Several certified  aircraft do.  

  

  

 

Noel [quote]   

   --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 12:52 pm Post subject: fuel pressure gauge

>> Racing  cars don't have fuel lines passing through the passenger compartment....   Several certified aircraft do.  

  

 Are they pressurized? Do you think it is a good idea if it  can be avoided? What did you do in your plane?

  

 -- Craig

  

   [quote][b]

daveaustin2(at)can.rogers
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:14 pm Post subject: fuel pressure gauge

All previous msgs understood, but what about all  the spam cans with primers in the cockpit?

 Dave Austin  601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk  VIII

     [quote][b]

planejim(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:22 pm Post subject: fuel pressure gauge

Dave & Listers,

  

 My ZAC 601HD Instrument Kit came with VDO gagaes.  ( 1996 ) The VDO Fuel Pressure gage has a line ( plastic )into the  cockpit going to the gage. ( Fuel Pressure in the cockpit ). Due to not  getting the fitting at the gage tight enough with the initial installation   I had a leak . The fuel caused the gage housing ( and the VDO gage  just below it ) to come apart. Being the  hard head that I am (  dumb too some times ) I replaced the VDO gages with the same type gages, but at  least got the fitting tight. I have continued to operate this set up for 10  years and 534 hours with no further problems. I do think about it  though!

  

 If I were building now I would use one of  those Isolaters someone mentioned. Either  that or an electric sender set up. It's just the smart  and safe thing to  do.

  

 do not archive

  

 Jim Hoak  

 [quote]   ---

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:30 pm Post subject: fuel pressure gauge

The primers I have seen come in two form: a manual primer  pump on the panel or an electric solenoid FWF. Neither puts pressurized fuel in  the cockpit. Is there a third kind?

  

 -- Craig

[quote] [b]

taffy0687(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 3:08 pm Post subject: fuel pressure gauge

Jim---- please listen to those voices which are talking to you,  so we don't have to read about you on the NTSB.   This issue will not go away--- half the list will say, "no problem !" and the other half will say, "you do what?".   This is one of those "green skotch-brite" discussions:     William W. lived thru his "fire" .  He makes his recommendations for a reason.

 

  

Fritz 

 ---

planejim(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 3:33 pm Post subject: fuel pressure gauge

Fritz & Listers,

  

 Another thought about the fuel pressure in the  cockpit on my 601HD. This was the system provided by ZAC! 

  

 I wonder if it has resulted in any catostrofic  failures/problems? Also, I wonder if this is the current system as provided in  ZAC Instrument Kits?

  

 do not archive

  

 Jim Hoak

 [quote]   ---

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:17 pm Post subject: fuel pressure gauge

By pressurized I assume you  mean the 40 plus PSI required to deliver fuel to an EFI.  and the answer to  that is none that I know of.  Possibly the Lake or new Seawind....   Fuel in those may be controlled with remote solenoid valves.   Personally I like to see pressurized line kept as short as  possible. Properly installed, fuel lines pass through the passenger  compartment  is a risk calculated to be minimal by the designers.   When you have a single engine plane you have a few decisions to make... You can  put the tanks in the wings and have tubes pass through the fuselage to the  engine or have the tank and fuel lines in the fuselage...  either way you  end up with gas passing through the passenger compartment ( probably under the  floor ).

  

 WW I planes used to have  problems with the oil pressure lines leaking all over the pilot...  Of  course they had to put up with the occasional bullet hole.  78 years later  we still have wet gauges in some small certified AC.  Talk about going full  circle...  The first and the latest planes both have canard wings and they  both have their propulsion in the back ( turbine nozzles vs pusher props).   Wil and Orv. would be proud.

  

 I think back to the singer who  crashed his plane, in California, because the original builder didn't want  gas lines or valves in the cockpit.  Was it really safer????  Is added  complexity really always better?? 

  

 Getting back, off topic a bit  to auto design why does GM and some other designers put their high pressure 40+  PSI  line right by the drivers door where a leak could be lit by a  discarded cigarette??  Is this good design???  note: The electrical  lines to the back of the car are right next to the fuel  lines.

  

 

Noel [quote]   

   --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:30 pm Post subject: fuel pressure gauge

In this case we are talking  about a pressurized line that terminates in the cockpit.  That is slightly  different than fuel lines passing through and a lot less safe.  With the  volatility of 100LL I would go with the electronic sender outside the fire wall  and gauge.  It is safer no doubt than the termination in the cockpit, It  may be lighter, It may integrate with a new FADEC or EIS.

  

 Primers are not generally used  with fuel injection.  

 

Noel [quote]   

   --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:36 pm Post subject: fuel pressure gauge

If you want to have a little  fun with a friend.  Unlock the dash primer before trying to shut the engine  down by pulling the mix.  Fuel will bypass the float bowl and keep the  engine running.  A good reason for pilots with those items to check they  are locked before moving the plane after start up.

  

 I have seen one old Indian  class twin that required about ten pumps on the dash primer to start each  engine...   I guess the primer lines were better than twenty feet  long.... each!

  

  

 

Noel [quote]   

   --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

nfivesl(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:37 pm Post subject: fuel pressure gauge

Dave:



I use one with a sender mounted on top of the gascolater so no fuel in the cockpit.  (Gascolator is on the firewall).  It's made by Mitchell and is seen here under the tachometer on the right side of my panel:

http://www.cooknwithgas.com/6_5_06_Panel.JPG



I'd recommend it if you haven't found one yet.  



Scott Laughlin

www.cooknwithgas.com



---

ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:12 pm Post subject: fuel pressure gauge

Hello Dave,



I will not have in my airplane a broken  oil or gasoline gauge tube getting hot oil or sprayed gasoline in my cabin at any altitude over a terrain to land....



Any price paid for that type of safety margin,  is inexpensive.



Saludos

Gary Gower



videoflyer(at)aol.com wrote:[quote]  I was looking at fuel pressure gauges for my plane.  The price difference between electrical and mechanical gauges is significant.  Does anyone feel uncomfortable with a mechanical fuel pressure gauge mounted on their instrument panel?

    

    

   Dave Harms

 601XL//Corvair

    

    [quote][b]

ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:15 pm Post subject: fuel pressure gauge

Hello Dave,



I will not have in my airplane a broken  oil or gasoline gauge tube getting hot oil or sprayed gasoline in my cabin at any altitude over a terrain to land....



Any price paid for that type of safety margin,  is inexpensive.



Saludos

Gary Gower



videoflyer(at)aol.com wrote:[quote]  I was looking at fuel pressure gauges for my plane.  The price difference between electrical and mechanical gauges is significant.  Does anyone feel uncomfortable with a mechanical fuel pressure gauge mounted on their instrument panel?

    

    

   Dave Harms

 601XL//Corvair

    

    [quote][b]

n701rr(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 3:08 am Post subject: fuel pressure gauge

Dave 

  Like Scott, but mine is a 701 w/ Geo conversion.  Here's the link:

   

  http://www.n701rr.com/Engine/Engine2/engine40.JPG

   

  do not archive





Rick 

Sharpsburg, GA. USA 

http://www.n701rr.com [quote][b]

Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 10:28 am Post subject: fuel pressure gauge

I don't know if anyone has said anything about this on the list, but you  can buy a diaphragm that goes outside the firewall and the oil or gas coming  from the line stops at that point. On the other side of the diaphragm it is  filled with veggie oil and when the pressure pushes the diaphragm it in turn  puts pressure on the veggie oil and makes the gauge work. So if you had a  ruptured line from the firewall back you might get 1 oz. of veggie oil on  your paints but no gas or engine oil. They use this setup in race cars all the  time. Not saying it is right or wrong just saying it is a different way of doing  it so don't jump on me for the post.

  

  

 Jeff

  [quote][b]

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