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Oil cooler thermostat
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rick(at)amimotormanagemen
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:50 am Post subject: Oil cooler thermostat

Hi Bob     

  

 I've just picked up on this thread as  I've been away.  I have flown for the last year with the gills taped over.  No problem. Can't say as I've noticed much difference as flight profile, temp,  altitude  etc etc make such a difference. 

  

 I'm building an RV7 with a full plenum  and am told that any pressure release is bad.

  

 I control my water / oil temperatures  by adding or removing lengths of pipe insulation from the water radiator  inlet.  Seems to work. 

  

 All the best 

 

Rick  

  

Rick  Morris G-RIKS  



   From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  R.C.Harrison

Sent: 15 November 2006 11:43

To:  europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Oil cooler  thermostat

 

  

Hi! Nigel/all 

My two pennyworth ....I also  tried a cowl exit flap but not to close off. My Jabiru  cooling system of course was ALL air cooled and the theory ventured by the Jab  dealer and Factory was to extend it into the air stream and create a low  pressure area aft of the cooling exit to suck out the hot air..... needless to say it made no improvement whatever. However what  I did find was that it was important to maintain top cowl pressure high to  promote the mass down flow of air past the engine, I even collected my cabin  heating air(when not being used for purpose) and dumped it in the cowl top which  also assisted. Since all the high pressure oil cooling air was directed under  the sump cooling fins(Rotax  oil and water cooling likewise) to leave it "floating" in the lower cowl  restrained the downward flow of engine cooling air.   

You may ask why am I "rabbitting on" about damn Jabiru's ?.... so to my  question:- 

  

What  purpose do the Europa "Gills"  serve? 

Has  anyone flown with them blocked off to check the  effects? 

  

As it happens, against most advice, I have decided to  fit an intercooler on my 914 Turbo which of course has a huge discharge of warm  air mostly into the top cowling and I’m not sure it’s the right philosophy to  let it exit out the “gills”, with my Jabiru  experiences I’m suggesting that to increase the down flow of air, even with  water and oil cooling on the engine, it would be best maintaining the top cowl  pressure.  

I never had any top cowl exits on my Jabiru set up ...all air was discharged out the lower cowl  exit plus the lower cowl was "jacked" off the fuselage by approx 1" increasing  the discharge annulus considerably. 

Any help with these questions would be gratefully  received. 

I also would have liked to have the Rotax oil flow to its cooler selectable and/or meterable which I achieved on the Jabiru by a hand control valve operated from the P1 Position  allowing most flying to be accomplished without the cooler being in circuit. The  resultant warm air (even with no oil circulating  though the cooler) was a primary  source of cabin heat and with the oil cooler in full flow I could fry the  passenger, I get the feeling that a number of Europa  Rotax owners would dearly like such a facility  ! 

  

Regards 

Bob Harrison G-PTAG (Still prepared to  learn!) 

  

  

  

-----Original  Message-----

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  nigel charles

Sent: 15 November 2006  09:38

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Oil cooler  thermostat 

  

--> Europa-List message posted by:  "nigel charles"  <nwcmc(at)tiscali.co.uk> 

  

 	  Quote: 	
		  It is best to place a flap at the exit of the  cowl/radiator duct. 

Placing an obstruction in the front destroys dynamic  pressure. An we  
	


need to recover as much pressure as we can to persuade  the air to flow  

across the rad core.< 

  

For what its worth I tried a cooler flap at the rear of  the radiators. 

With it fully closed it cut off nearly all the airflow  and it made 

little difference to the CHT and oil  temperatures. 

  

When I was at Vichy this year I met one of our French  owners (sorry I 

forgot his name). He has a very clever inlet cowl flap.  It is part of 

the lower cowl in front of the radiators and has a hinge  at the rear of 

it. In very hot weather it is lowered below the normal  cowl allowing 

more cooling air in. In cold weather it is raised  impeding airflow to 

the radiators. This is all controlled from the cockpit  so that inflight 

adjustments can be made. From what he told me it works  very well.  

  

I appreciate that normally control of cooling air is  best done at the 

outlet but in this case it seems it is better to use the  inlet. 

  

Nigel Charles 

  

  

 

[quote]



href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com

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href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron

[b]

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robh(at)hyperion-ef.us
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:25 am Post subject: Oil cooler thermostat

Well, since you asked….  

<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>  

I recently had to replace the thermostat in my 1995 Mazda Miata (OK, that is a trifle older than 10 years).  Since the thing failed CLOSED I also had to replace the radiator which burst from the pressure built up when the engine overheated (which implies that the pressure relief feature of the radiator cap also did not work as intended).  The car has been maintained per Mazda recommendations.  

<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>  

As for failing in the open position, consider that it normally cycles with engine temperature and therefore can jam in either the open or closed position.  

<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>  

<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>  

 AUTOTEXTLIST  \s "E-mail Signature" <![endif]-->Best regards,  

<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>  

Rob Housman  

A070  

Airframe complete  

Irvine, CA  

<![endif]--><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>  

-----Original Message-----

 From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Raimo Toivio

 Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 8:39 AM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Oil cooler thermostat  

<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>  

Vaughn,  

   

I cannot be absolutely sure but NORMALLY  

thermostat design itself leaves it fully   

open in failure situation.  

   

Who knows ANY broken thermostat in  

cars (younger than 10-20 years)?  

   

Problems may occur if the coolant liquid  

is NEVER changed.   

   

In cars most people never do it IMHO.  

Just like brake fluid, it should be changed  

regularly (let´s say once a 1-3 year  

to remove moisture and small obstackles etc).  

   

May I suggest you to go some car spare shop,   

keep it on your hand and look at it carefully?  

   

Regards, Raimo  

   

     

----- Original Message -----   

  From: Europa List (n914va(at)bvunet.net) 

    

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)   

Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 4:57 PM  

Subject: Oil cooler thermostat  

<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>  

I would be very inclined to go with a water thermostat, but I have one question. If it fails, does it fail closed or open?   

   

Vaughn  [quote]<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.comhref="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.comhref="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.comhref="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>       -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --           (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)   November is the Annual List Fund Raiser.  Click on   the Contribution link below to find out more about   this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided   by:     * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com     * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com     * Aeroware Enterprises www.kitlog.com     * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com   List Contribution Web Site   --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution   Thank you for your generous support!                              -Matt Dralle, List Admin.          - The Europa-List Email Forum -   --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]>[b]

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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:29 am Post subject: Oil cooler thermostat

Shit happens....

  

 I am sorry about your Mazda.

  

 Are you SURE  "they" have changed

 the cooling liquid never ever?

 Did not you get any warnings before damage?!

 After that, did you leave the thermostat

 out of your car = uninstalled = eliminating

 it happens never again?! 

  

 The safest way is to NOT limit your cooling

 system by the help of thermostats or flaps.

 But if you still like to do it, which way is  safer?!

  

 If the thermostat is jammed in  closed-position,

 you should notice it before take-off. I think it is  a

 normal practise to check engine temp is  normal

 and it stays there before take off.

  

 And when driving car, many people stop their  car

 when temp gauge is coming close to  red...before

 damage.

  

 One fact: many "extras" are some kind of risk  also.

 (Flying) life is full of alternatives. One has to  make

 best choice suitable just for him. The water  thermostat

 is one of my choosing...

  

 Regards, Raimo

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Gilles.Thesee(at)ac-greno
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:45 am Post subject: Oil cooler thermostat

Raimo,



 	  Quote: 	
		   The safest way is to NOT limit your cooling

 system by the help of thermostats or flaps.


	


If you have engineering or research data to support this statement, 

would you mind expanding on it?



Thanks,

Regards,

Gilles

http://contrails.free.fr

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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:53 pm Post subject: Oil cooler thermostat

Well Gilles,



I have nothing but just common sense.

Keep it simple is a beautiful principle also for safety.

If Rob´s Mazda would not have thermostat,

it would not be broken also.



If you have nothing 

(to limit air flow  by flaps or water flow by thermostat), 

they cannot be broken also.



Most people fly happily w their Rotaxes w/o any system

to restrict cooling air or water flow, am I right?



Some people - like me - wanna still have those benefits

you get when purposely restrict cooling, when necessary.



Safety is not the factor to use thermostat /flaps.

Your convenience, engine health, pollution and 

fuel consumption are.



After this message I will send an other message attached

some pics about thermostat, water-oil exchanger and an

electric heater for water.



Hope this helps, Raimo





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