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601XL - Engine out / Glide Experience

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mrbizi(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:20 pm Post subject: 601XL - Engine out / Glide Experience

Steven:

 I would like to know as well.  I am also considering building the Zodiac but I would like to know glide speed and glide ratio information as well.  

   

If anyone responds, please cc me as well.  

   

   

Thanks,  

     

   

[b]Josh Olson[/b]  

[b]Email:[/b]  mrbizi(at)yahoo.com (mrbizi(at)yahoo.com)  

   

   

        

  

From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven Janicki

 Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 5:54 PM

 To: zenith-list-digest(at)matronics.com

 Subject: 601XL - Engine out / Glide Experience  

  

       

Hello All,  

    

   

    

I am planning to build a 601XL in the near future and have been reading the recent threads about the unfortunate loss of a 601XL and pilot.  

    

   

    

I don't know what happened and don't want to speculate about what happened, etc. I would like to know if anyone has experience with simulated engine out landings and would share those experiences with the group? I would also appreciate any experiences with how the 601XL glides during simulated engine out practice and any comparisons to other aircraft, i.e. Cessna 172, etc.   

    

   

    

Thanks in advance,  

    

   

    

Steven  

  

  

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xl(at)prosody.org
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:46 pm Post subject: 601XL - Engine out / Glide Experience

Steven,



Do a zenith archive search for 'engine out' and read:

Message: 	#33028

Date: 	Apr 26, 2005

From: 	xl <xl(at)prosody.org>

Subject: 	here's a report on my 601XL engine out sink rate



I turned my engine off and didn't go down like a brick.

I haven't shut off a Cessna engine, can't do it if it's not my plane,

but at idle you'd best turn to the runway early.



Joe E

N633Z (at) BFI

CH601XL, 405 hours

Jabiru 3300, Sensenich 49x64 wood prop

On Mon, 27 Nov 2006, Steven Janicki wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I am planning to build a 601XL in the near future and have been reading

 the recent threads about the unfortunate loss of a 601XL and pilot.

 I don't know what happened and don't want to speculate about what

 happened, etc. I would like to know if anyone has experience with

 simulated engine out landings and would share those experiences with the

 group? I would also appreciate any experiences with how the 601XL glides

 during simulated engine out practice and any comparisons to other

 aircraft, i.e. Cessna 172, etc.

 Thanks in advance, Steven

 do not archive

pmaxpmax(at)HOTMAIL.COM
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:09 pm Post subject: 601XL - Engine out / Glide Experience

Here is some very practical information about how I make landings.  So far I've got about 120 hours on my plane, and I don't know how many landings.  I would say maybe 80 - 100.

  

 When I fly a standard landing pattern (i.e. same as a Cessna 152/172) I use about 75% power on the downwind leg.  I leave that amount of power in until I get to the corner, that is, until I turn base.  At that point I'm still 1000 feet AGL, and I pull the power back to almost idle.  I glide in from there with minor changes to power.  If I'm low, I add power, if I'm high I use more flaps, or even add a side slip.

  

 So to answer your original question, the glide performance isn't as good as a 172, but it's not that different.  Best glide speed is about 85 mph in my plane.



Phil Maxson

601XL/Corvair

Northwest New Jersey

  	  Quote: 	
		    Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 15:53:59 -0800

From: mmesa005(at)yahoo.com

Subject: 601XL - Engine out / Glide Experience

To: zenith-list-digest(at)matronics.com



   .ExternalClass DIV {;}     Hello All,

  

 I am planning to build a 601XL in the near future and have been reading the recent threads about the unfortunate loss of a 601XL and pilot.

  

 I don't know what happened and don't want to speculate about what happened, etc. I would like to know if anyone has experience with simulated engine out landings and would share those experiences with the group? I would also appreciate any experiences with how the 601XL glides during simulated engine out practice and any comparisons to other aircraft, i.e. Cessna 172, etc. 

  

 Thanks in advance,

  

 Steven

 	  Quote: 	
		  



_blank>www.aeroelectric.com

/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com

=_blank>www.kitlog.com

=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com

blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution

arget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List



	
	
Check the weather nationwide with=WLMTAG' target='_new'>Try it now!  [quote][b]

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:27 pm Post subject: 601XL - Engine out / Glide Experience

Phil - how do you set the flaps during the various phases of  landing?

  

 -- Craig

[quote] [b]

ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 4:37 pm Post subject: 601XL - Engine out / Glide Experience

Hello Steve,



I have not flown a 601 XL but I am building one now...  But:



With any airplane, the most important thing is to fly it all the way down,  The closer to the ground the pilot is,  there is more chances to panic and try to "hold" it flying...  This will finish in a Stall,  a Spin or a "pancake" slam  to the ground, all this fatal and caused for lack of keeping speed, not because of the airplane design or safe airfoils...



There is nothing as practice, practice and practice to build self confidence.  keep the landing speed (slow enough in the ZAC airplanes to save the life) until touch down, is important to never fly over any place you dont want to land and always keep a "landing spot" at glide distance.    Instruction in Gliders (or 2 cycle ultralights   will be of great value to all of us.



I am voluntair (sp?)   for the local Search and Rescue team,  I have witnessed  from a fatal landing over flat hard sand onobstructed area, nothing to kill him just his panic    and one where a pilot managed to land (lost the landing  gear do and some damage to wings)  the airplane in a 600 ft area sorounded with houses at 7,300 ft (noon, hot)  and at gross with full tanks and luggage,  he lost all power at take off 400 ft over terrain  Both pilot and passenger where safe and sound!!!!  The airplane, a european 2 seater similar to the 601 XL  is already repaired and flying.



The important thing is to keep calm (very dificult in any emergency, without practice)  and fly as hight as prudent so you can choose a good landing spot...



Not last but as important:  keep your airplane in perfect shape (mantainance) and do your preflight...



Hope this helps.



Saludos

Gary Gower.

Mexico.

Do not archive.



Steven Janicki <mmesa005(at)yahoo.com>  wrote:[quote] Hello All,

  

 I am planning to build a 601XL in the near future and have been reading the recent threads about the unfortunate loss of a 601XL and pilot.

  

 I don't know what happened and don't want to speculate about what happened, etc. I would like to know if anyone has experience with simulated engine out landings and would share those experiences with the group? I would also appreciate any experiences with how the 601XL glides during simulated engine out practice and any comparisons to other aircraft, i.e. Cessna 172, etc. 

  

 Thanks in advance,

  

 Steven

 [quote][b]

Ron Lendon

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 685
Location: Clinton Twp., MI

Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 7:19 pm Post subject: Re: 601XL - Engine out / Glide Experience

Another thing you can practice is landings during takeoff.  What I mean here is practice your soft field take offs always.  it helps you get the feel of the plane just before lift / stall.  This will become habit if you do them all the time.

_________________
Ron Lendon
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
CH 601 XLB
N601LT - Flying
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
https://sites.google.com/site/corvairenginedata/

dave.thompson(at)verizon.
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:34 pm Post subject: 601XL - Engine out / Glide Experience

My primary flight instructor before I got my license in the 70’s was a crusty, crabby old ex-Marine flight instructor (I know, once a Marine, always a Marine). It seemed that we spent more time on Emergency procedures than basic flight. He had me learn very steep slips, simulated electrical failures and engine off procedures. One time we flew out to a California desert dry lake and he pulled back the throttle several miles away. This was while I was plotting a new course. He had me follow through and actually land on the lake bed. When I attempted to take off again from a full stop, he pulled back the throttle again at about 500 feet. He then told me that the scratch on the lake bed ahead was a “bunch of bushes” that I had to avoid on landing again. We performed several “forced landings” and “aborted take-offs” that day. On the way back to EMT (El Monte, CA) he pulled back the throttle again over a rural part of town. He gave me power again at about 200 feet over a deserted road. We had three more similar days before I had my final check ride.  

   

At the time, I was very irritated with him. Several years later, the two-cycle engine seized in my B1RD ultralight and I had to make a forced landing on a highway center meridian. When the engine quit, I calmly remembered my training and experience and flew the ultralight all the way down to a perfect landing. I was pleasantly surprised at how calm I was during that emergency.   

   

There is no better way to prepare yourself for an emergency than practice.   

   

Dave Thompson  

dave.thompson(at)verizon.net (dave.thompson(at)verizon.net)  

Westminster,  CA  

601XL rudder workshop, Corvair engine in parts and no money for a kit.  

   

        [quote][b]

NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:12 pm Post subject: 601XL - Engine out / Glide Experience

Dave,

  

 More instructors should be like that crabby old ex-Marine!!! You can't even  get spin training today without going into aerobatic training.

  

 Bob Spudis

 do not archive

  

 In a message dated 11/30/2006 10:36:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  dave.thompson(at)verizon.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		        

My primary flight instructor before I got my license    in the 70â€™s was a crusty, crabby old ex-Marine flight instructor (I know, once    a Marine, always a Marine). It seemed that we spent more time on Emergency    procedures than basic flight. He had me learn very steep slips, simulated    electrical failures and engine off procedures. One time we flew out to a    California    desert dry lake and he pulled back the throttle several miles away. This was    while I was plotting a new course. He had me follow through and actually land    on the lake bed. When I attempted to take off again from a full stop, he    pulled back the throttle again at about 500 feet. He then told me that the    scratch on the lake bed ahead was a â€œbunch of bushesâ€ that I had to avoid on    landing again. We performed several â€œforced landingsâ€ and â€œaborted take-offsâ€    that day. On the way back to EMT (El    Monte, CA) he pulled    back the throttle again over a rural part of town. He gave me power again at    about 200 feet over a deserted road. We had three more similar days before I    had my final check ride.   

    

At the time, I was very irritated with him. Several    years later, the two-cycle engine seized in my B1RD ultralight and I had to    make a forced landing on a highway center meridian. When the engine quit, I    calmly remembered my training and experience and flew the ultralight all the    way down to a perfect landing. I was pleasantly surprised at how calm I was    during that emergency.    

    

There is no better way to prepare yourself for an    emergency than practice.    

    

Dave Thompson   

dave.thompson(at)verizon.net (dave.thompson(at)verizon.net)   

Westminster, CA   

601XL rudder workshop, Corvair engine in parts and no    money for a kit.   

 

 	  Quote: 	
		  



p://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com

 href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com

ttp://www.kitlog.com/">www.kitlog.com

ttp://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com

://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List



	
	


 

  

  [quote][b]

n4546v(at)mindspring.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:14 pm Post subject: 601XL - Engine out / Glide Experience

a  crusty, crabby old ex-Marine flight instructor (I know, once a Marine, always a  Marine)

  

  

 With respect:   

  

 You can always tell a  Marine,,,,,,,,,,,,, you just can't tell him much!

  

  

  

 Randy, Las vegas do  not archive

   [quote][b]

marinegunner(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:06 pm Post subject: 601XL - Engine out / Glide Experience

Being a retired Marine, I know about your training - especially if that Marine was a pilot from the WWII-mid Viet Nam era. We Marines understand how important it is to accomplish the mission with skill, knowledge, decisiveness, morality and ethics. Failure to teach new pilots how to fly the airplane above all else will deny them all of these things - putting their lives in more jeopardy than necessary. Glad you got the Marine ride. 

  

 Do Not Archive

- 

Semper Fi,

Steven R. Hulland

CH 600 Taildragger

Amado, AZ



This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies scanned prior to opening/sending and uses an external firewall to help insure virus free email and attachments.   [quote][b]

naumuk(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:17 am Post subject: 601XL - Engine out / Glide Experience

Dave-

     Scratch build. Ask around the  list- sooner or later, you wind up scratch building something anyway, so don't  use lack of funds as an excuse. You're not the first!  For a couple hundred  bucks worth of sheet stock, you can build your stab. At least you're making  progress!

     I remember an article in SP  where Bingelis responded to people who complained about not having a shop. At  one time, he was stationed in Japan, and the only "Shop" he had was a closet.  Managed to fabricate the wing ribs and other small parts for an Emaraude and  eventually finished it.

     Like Red Green says- "We're all  in there pulling for you."

     Incidentally, I agree with your  assessment of flight instructors. In my opinion, if you don't come out of a  biennial with your shirt sticking to your back, you didn't get your money's  worth.

  

 Bill Naumuk

HDS Fuselage

Townville, Pa

 [quote]   ---

ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:34 pm Post subject: 601XL - Engine out / Glide Experience

Bill Naumuk <naumuk(at)alltel.net> wrote:[quote]     st1\:* {  BEHAVIOR: url(#default#ieooui) }  <![endif]-->     Dave-

     Scratch build. Ask around the  list- sooner or later, you wind up scratch building something anyway, so don't  use lack of funds as an excuse. You're not the first!  For a couple hundred  bucks worth of sheet stock, you can build your stab. At least you're making  progress!

     I remember an article in SP  where Bingelis responded to people who complained about not having a shop. At  one time, he was stationed in Japan, and  the only "Shop" he had was a closet.  Managed to fabricate the wing ribs and other small parts for an Emaraude and  eventually finished it.

     Like Red Green says- "We're all  in there pulling for you."

     Incidentally, I agree with your  assessment of flight instructors. In my opinion, if you don't come out of a  biennial with your shirt sticking to your back, you didn't get your money's  worth.

  

 Bill Naumuk

HDS Fuselage

Townville, Pa

 [quote]   ----- Original  Message ----- 

   From:    Dave Thompson (dave.thompson(at)verizon.net) 

   To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com (zenith-list(at)matronics.com) 

   Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 10:34    PM

   Subject: Re: 601XL - Engine    out / Glide Experience

   



      My primary flight instructor before I got my license    in the 70’s was a crusty, crabby old ex-Marine flight instructor (I know, once    a Marine, always a Marine). It seemed that we spent more time on Emergency    procedures than basic  flight. He had me learn very steep slips, simulated    electrical failures and engine off procedures. One time we flew out to a    California    desert dry lake and he pulled back the throttle several miles away. This was    while I was plotting a new course. He had me follow through and actually land    on the lake bed. When I attempted to take off again from a full stop, he    pulled back the throttle again at about 500 feet. He then told me that the    scratch on the lake bed ahead was a “bunch of bushes” that I had to avoid on    landing again. We performed several “forced landings” and “aborted take-offs”    that day. On the way back to EMT (El    Monte, CA) he pulled    back the throttle again over a rural part of town. He gave me power again at    about 200 feet over a deserted road. We had three more  similar days before I    had my final check ride.

    

   At the time, I was very irritated with him. Several    years later, the two-cycle engine seized in my B1RD ultralight and I had to    make a forced landing on a highway center meridian. When the engine quit, I    calmly remembered my training and experience and flew the ultralight all the    way down to a perfect landing. I was pleasantly surprised at how calm I was    during that emergency. 

    

   There is no better way to  prepare yourself for an    emergency than practice. 

    

   Dave Thompson

   dave.thompson(at)verizon.net (dave.thompson(at)verizon.net)

   Westminster, CA

   601XL rudder workshop, Corvair engine in parts and no    money for a  [quote][b]

gboothe(at)calply.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 7:01 am Post subject: 601XL - Engine out / Glide Experience

Dave,  

   

Ditto……..Bill talked me into scratch building after I had purchased tail and wing kits. I am saving thousands of $$ just on the Center Section! The best part though, there is ENORMOUS satisfaction from making every part!   

   

Good luck with your project,  

Gary Boothe 

 Cool, CA 

 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done, 

 Tail done, wings done, working on c-section   

   



 

 Bill Naumuk <naumuk(at)alltel.net> wrote:    

Dave-  

    

    Scratch build. Ask around the list- sooner or later, you wind up scratch building something anyway, so don't use lack of funds as an excuse. You're not the first!  For a couple hundred bucks worth of sheet stock, you can build your stab. At least you're making progress!.....  

    

   

    

Bill Naumuk

 HDS Fuselage

 Townville, Pa  

  [quote]    

   

    

Dave Thompson  

    

dave.thompson(at)verizon.net (dave.thompson(at)verizon.net)  

    

Westminster,  CA  

    

601XL rudder workshop, Corvair engine in parts and no money for a    	  Quote: 	
		    www.aeroelectric.com 	
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dave.thompson(at)verizon.
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:42 am Post subject: 601XL - Engine out / Glide Experience

Steven & list,  

   

At the time I did not understand his methodology. Now, as an adult, I admire it. Someone mentioned spin training. We also got out of the C150 and performed some spins in a Citabria, also for some tail dragger time. His idea of unusual attitude training was almost inverted, almost in a stall.  Another note is that he stressed “aircraft management”, such as fuel and flaps. He would not allow me to use the “Both” position on the fuel selector. His reasoning was to make SURE that I was always aware of all my “assets” switching back and forth between the tanks to maintain trim. Everything he did was at the extreme edge. Every flight was task intensive so I would become comfortable with multi-tasking. I truly hope that I will remember my training when I get current again after my 25-years of not flying. I hope to find another “crusty old marine“ when I start to become current again. I was never in military service (bad knees) but I do salute all our men & women in uniform, both now and in the past.  

   

P. S. Buck, rest his soul, was a WWII Corsair driver in the Pacific, later an F86 & F4 instructor. Boy, did he have some stories!  

   

Steven wrote:  

    	  Quote: 	
		  Being a retired Marine, I know about your training - especially if that      Marine was a pilot from the WWII-mid Viet Nam era. We Marines understand how      important it is to accomplish the mission with skill, knowledge,      decisiveness, morality and ethics. Failure to teach new pilots how to fly      the airplane above all else will deny them all of these things - putting      their lives in more jeopardy than necessary. Glad you got the Marine ride. 	
  

   

   

Dave Thompson  

dave.thompson(at)verizon.net (dave.thompson(at)verizon.net)  

Westminster, CA  

Do not archive  

   

        [quote][b]

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