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Terry Watson

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 290
Location: Seattle, WA USA

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:48 am Post subject: Forward vision for tail wheel pilots

I saw this under $100 12 volt back-up monitor for cars at Costco that might work for filling in the blind spot when taxiing a tail wheel aircraft. The link is to the product at WallMart. I saw it at Costco for $90 ($89.99 in Costco language).   http://tinyurl.com/yz5wqu  

   

Terry  

   

   

        [quote][b]

pbesing(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:37 pm Post subject: Forward vision for tail wheel pilots

Uhh......I sure hope someone who is taxiing a tailwheel airplane (or any airplane for that matter) isn't looking at a tv monitor!  Maybe this is a joke?

   

  Paul Besing

  do not archive



Terry Watson <terry(at)tcwatson.com> wrote:

  [quote]              I saw this under $100 12 volt back-up monitor for cars at Costco that might work for filling in the blind spot when taxiing a tail wheel aircraft. The link is to the product at WallMart. I saw it at Costco for $90 ($89.99 in Costco language).   http://tinyurl.com/yz5wqu<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

   

  Terry

   

   



[quote][b]     [quote][b]

december29(at)bellsouth.n
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:13 pm Post subject: Forward vision for tail wheel pilots

Paul,

   I think he's thinking of the accident at OSH  this year as a backup.  Yeah, a bit of overkill, but if it ever did save  someone from hitting something, maybe worth it.  And if you mount it on top  of the glareshield, it's kind of like a HUD,  ha,ha.  And who knows,  hook up to DirectTV and you can watch movies while you fly.  Sure is  amazing that they can put something like that out for less than a hundred  bucks.

  

 John

 80002

  

 do not archive

 [quote]   ---

jsflyrv(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:18 pm Post subject: Forward vision for tail wheel pilots

Not a joke at all, I know several airplanes that have forward looking 

cameras hooked to a monitor. To bad the TBM at Oshkosh did not have 

one!!!!!!



Jerry

do not archive



Paul Besing wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Uhh......I sure hope someone who is taxiing a tailwheel airplane (or 

 any airplane for that matter) isn't looking at a tv monitor!  Maybe 

 this is a joke?

  

 Paul Besing

 do not archive



 Terry Watson <terry(at)tcwatson.com> wrote:



     I saw this under $100 12 volt back-up monitor for cars at Costco

     that might work for filling in the blind spot when taxiing a tail

     wheel aircraft. The link is to the product at WallMart. I saw it

     at Costco for $90 ($89.99 in Costco language).  

     http://tinyurl.com/yz5wqu

      

     Terry

      

      



   



------------------------------------------------------------------------

Terry Watson

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 290
Location: Seattle, WA USA

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:22 pm Post subject: Forward vision for tail wheel pilots

Paul, you surprise me.  This caught my attention because of the dead-serious discussion after the RV-6 and its passenger were chopped up (the passenger died) at Oshkosh this year by a warbird where the pilot of the warbird was unaware that the RV-6 was in front of him. There was a discussion of how to implement a video camera to cover the blind spot. This seemed to me to be a useful addition to that discussion. I’m sure you will now agree this is a long ways from an attempt to be funny.  

   

Terry  

   

   

Uhh......I sure hope someone who is taxiing a tailwheel airplane (or any airplane for that matter) isn't looking at a tv monitor!  Maybe this is a joke?  

   

Paul Besing  

   

        [quote][b]

retasker(at)optonline.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:30 pm Post subject: Forward vision for tail wheel pilots

I hope not.  Something like this could have prevented the tragic 

accident at OSH this summer.



Dick Tasker



Do not archive



Paul Besing wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Uhh......I sure hope someone who is taxiing a tailwheel airplane (or 

 any airplane for that matter) isn't looking at a tv monitor!  Maybe 

 this is a joke?

  

 Paul Besing

 do not archive



 */Terry Watson <terry(at)tcwatson.com>/* wrote:



     I saw this under $100 12 volt back-up monitor for cars at Costco

     that might work for filling in the blind spot when taxiing a tail

     wheel aircraft. The link is to the product at WallMart. I saw it

     at Costco for $90 ($89.99 in Costco language).  

     *http://tinyurl.com/yz5wqu*

      

     Terry




	


-- 

Please Note: 

No trees were destroyed in the sending of this message.  We do concede, however,

that a significant number of electrons may have been temporarily inconvenienced.

--

jeffpoint

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 72
Location: MKE

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:20 pm Post subject: Forward vision for tail wheel pilots

I disagree with this and agree with Paul.  Having anther cockpit gizmo, 

keeping one's attention inside in the cockpit instead of where it should 

be, will cause more ground mishaps, not fewer.



Jeff Point

RV-6 flying

RV-8 tail kit

Milwaukee

do not archive

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Something like this could have prevented the tragic accident at OSH 

 this summer.

_________________
Jeff Point
RV-6
Milwaukee WI

lhelming(at)sigecom.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:56 pm Post subject: Forward vision for tail wheel pilots

Point well taken Jeff.  None the less however, is this point --  I would 

like to of been the RV6 that ALMOST got run over at Oshkosh but I got out of 

the way of the guy who was following too close because I had the camera 

pointed to the rear.  Anyone know if a recorder can be hooked up to the 

camera.



Larry in Indiana



---

ronlee(at)pcisys.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:00 pm Post subject: Forward vision for tail wheel pilots

At 03:19 PM 12/1/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

I disagree with this and agree with Paul.  Having anther cockpit gizmo, 

keeping one's attention inside in the cockpit instead of where it should 

be, will cause more ground mishaps, not fewer.

>

>Something like this could have prevented the tragic accident at OSH this 

>summer.

For something like the TBM that apparently has a huge blind spot for planes

like an RV, it seems prudent.  You only have to include it in your scan...not

glued to it

Ron Lee

do not archive

Bob Collins

Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: Forward vision for tail wheel pilots

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it revealed that the Avenger pilot wasn't doing S-turns that would have given him forward visibility?

_________________
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/

jsflyrv(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:12 pm Post subject: Forward vision for tail wheel pilots

Not true, you don't set there and stare at the "gizmo" it is part of an

overall scan. I bet there is much more attention given inside the 

cockpit tuning and adjusting radios and GPS's than would be focused on a 

camera/monitor. I would much rather the plane behind me was staring at a 

forward looking camera/monitor than at the GPS or a map etc. It would 

really be nice to have a split screen looking forward and back at the 

same time.

Jerry

do not archive

Jeff Point wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 I disagree with this and agree with Paul.  Having anther cockpit gizmo, 

 keeping one's attention inside in the cockpit instead of where it should 

 be, will cause more ground mishaps, not fewer.

 Jeff Point

 RV-6 flying

 RV-8 tail kit

 Milwaukee

 do not archive

>

> Something like this could have prevented the tragic accident at OSH 

> this summer.

jhstarn(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:39 pm Post subject: Forward vision for tail wheel pilots

.02 cents worth.  Slowly taxiing an HRII behind a Cherokee, swing left (1/2 

an "S" turn), look right, Cherokee is moving slowly but moving. Ride the 

brakes, swinging right, Cherokee still moving & now between turn offs. Taxi 

forward, swinging left again. CHEROKEE STOPPED DEAD in middle of taxiway. 

Stomp on brakes, land on nose, replace prop & re-build engine. NO SKID 

marks, NONE, on wheel pants or spinner, taxiing slowly BUT with a TV camera 

would have had a chance to detect that the Cherokee had STOPPED FOR NO 

REASON. Been there done that, It could happen to you too. Do Not Archive 

KABONG



---

jhstarn(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:52 pm Post subject: Forward vision for tail wheel pilots

A small mirror mounted on the crossbow similar to the ones on WWII P-40's 

would also work to "Check Six". Do Not Archive  KABONG

---

pbesing(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:55 pm Post subject: Forward vision for tail wheel pilots

Jerry, you are absolutely right about the GPS thing...stuff like that will suck you in, and I've seen it as a CFII with people trying to get things tuned, set, etc while taxiing to the runway.  

   

  First of all, this being the RV-List, I was thinking he was referring to putting it in an RV, not something like the aircraft the ran into the RV at oshkosh.

   

  Second, how many times have you heard of a large airplane taxiing into another one like the accident this year?  Yes, there are ground incursions, but this one was extremely rare.  Yes, this "gizmo" might have prevented the accident, but in more ways than one could cause another one if your attention wasn't divided properly.  I'm in the business of flying aircraft where I have two forms of vision.  FLIR in my right eye and unaided view in my left.  I have to divide my attention all the time between the views.  I have hundreds  of hours doing it, and my device follows my head movement and is not a fixed platform.  I use it while taxiing as well as flying.  Well, let me tell you this, it is not easy. 

   

  Two problems here.  One is parallax.  The camera is mounted at a different place than where you are sitting.  What it sees is from a different angle and perspective than you are looking.  If you try to empart that in a scan, your natural feel, even though you are only taxiing, will be disrupted.  Second is fixation.  The untrainted pilot with a "gizmo" like this will be distracted.  Maybe he'll be turning the aircraft between some hangars, and while looking at his monitor, the perception of his turning won't be great enough (the parallax thing) so he turns more.  Looks outside and bang, he just hit another airplane or hangar.

   

  Nevertheless, you can't fix one accident by employing non  realistic items like this, that could cause more.  Airplanes have been flying for 100 years without them, and this kind of accident is so very rare, that I wouldn't change a thing about airplanes to prevent another one.  

   

  There are few fly ins each year.  There are fewer airports that have this kind of congestion and chaos going on without some strict aircraft control procedures.  It's unfortunate, and I'm sure that the EAA will implement measures with their marshalls to prevent it.  But I'm sorry, TV cameras in airplanes are NOT the solution.  Better ground collision avoidance training (a hot topic with the FAA right now anyway) and sharp pilots/ground crew/controllers are the best way to prevent accidents like these.

   

  No more stuff needed in the cockpit I say.  I've already learned my lesson about gadgets, I tell you.  I always revert back to the basics when things don't  go as planned, and ignore the gadgets and get back to being a pilot.

   

  Paul Besing

  



Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)verizon.net> wrote:

  [quote]--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer 



Not true, you don't set there and stare at the "gizmo" it is part of an

overall scan. I bet there is much more attention given inside the 

cockpit tuning and adjusting radios and GPS's than would be focused on a 

camera/monitor. I would much rather the plane behind me was staring at a 

forward looking camera/monitor than at the GPS or a map etc. It would 

really be nice to have a split screen looking forward and back at the 

same time.



Jerry

do not archive



Jeff Point wrote:



[quote] --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point  [quote][b]

Terry Watson

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 290
Location: Seattle, WA USA

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:29 pm Post subject: Forward vision for tail wheel pilots

Think of it as a “front-view” mirror. You glance at it when you want to see if anything or anyone is in the blind spot. Just because the technology behind it is sophisticated doesn’t mean it has to be distracting. Don’t make it complicated. And yes, I was thinking about people putting it in their tailwheel RV’s.   

   

But since I am building a nose-wheel airplane I don’t have a horse in this race. Hey, maybe I could use one to …. No, never mind!  

   

Terry  

         

  

From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Besing

 Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 3:55 PM

 To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Forward vision for tail wheel pilots  

  

     

Jerry, you are absolutely right about the GPS thing...stuff like that will suck you in, and I've seen it as a CFII with people trying to get things tuned, set, etc while taxiing to the runway.    

    

   

    

First of all, this being the RV-List, I was thinking he was referring to putting it in an RV, not something like the aircraft the ran into the RV at oshkosh.  

    

   

    

Second, how many times have you heard of a large airplane taxiing into another one like the accident this year?  Yes, there are ground incursions, but this one was extremely rare.  Yes, this "gizmo" might have prevented the accident, but in more ways than one could cause another one if your attention wasn't divided properly.  I'm in the business of flying aircraft where I have two forms of vision.  FLIR in my right eye and unaided view in my left.  I have to divide my attention all the time between the views.  I have hundreds of hours doing it, and my device follows my head movement and is not a fixed platform.  I use it while taxiing as well as flying.  Well, let me tell you this, it is not easy.   

    

   

    

Two problems here.  One is parallax.  The camera is mounted at a different place than where you are sitting.  What it sees is from a different angle and perspective than you are looking.  If you try to empart that in a scan, your natural feel, even though you are only taxiing, will be disrupted.  Second is fixation.  The untrainted pilot with a "gizmo" like this will be distracted.  Maybe he'll be turning the aircraft between some hangars, and while looking at his monitor, the perception of his turning won't be great enough (the parallax thing) so he turns more.  Looks outside and bang, he just hit another airplane or hangar.  

    

   

    

Nevertheless, you can't fix one accident by employing non realistic items like this, that could cause more.  Airplanes have been flying for 100 years without them, and this kind of accident is so very rare, that I wouldn't change a thing about airplanes to prevent another one.    

    

   

    

There are few fly ins each year.  There are fewer airports that have this kind of congestion and chaos going on without some strict aircraft control procedures.  It's unfortunate, and I'm sure that the EAA will implement measures with their marshalls to prevent it.  But I'm sorry, TV cameras in airplanes are NOT the solution.  Better ground collision avoidance training (a hot topic with the FAA right now anyway) and sharp pilots/ground crew/controllers are the best way to prevent accidents like these.  

    

   

    

No more stuff needed in the cockpit I say.  I've already learned my lesson about gadgets, I tell you.  I always revert back to the basics when things don't go as planned, and ignore the gadgets and get back to being a pilot.  

    

   

    

Paul Besing  

    



 

 Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)verizon.net> wrote:  

  [quote]  

--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer 

 

 Not true, you don't set there and stare at the "gizmo" it is part of an

 overall scan. I bet there is much more attention given inside the 

 cockpit tuning and adjusting radios and GPS's than would be focused on a 

 camera/monitor. I would much rather the plane behind me was staring at a 

 forward looking camera/monitor than at the GPS or a map etc. It would 

 really be nice to have a split screen looking forward and back at the 

 same time.

 

 Jerry

 do not archive

 

 

 

 Jeff Point wrote:

 

 > --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point    	  Quote: 	
		    www.aeroelectric.com 	
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jsflyrv(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:44 pm Post subject: Forward vision for tail wheel pilots

I agree with most of what you say Paul, nothing better than eyeballs and 

  swivel neck to see and pay attention to what is going on around you.

as a CFI myself I try to teach the be aware of the whole situation 

scenario. On the  other hand as you mentioned airplanes have been flying 

for years without the "gizmos," I was one of the guys that said 

Loran/GPS were not necessary because I knew how to plot and fly a course 

without one. Now that I have used a Loran and then GPS's I would not 

leave home with out them because they make the work load so much easier 

to handle.

I just believe a simple system to see the blind spots would be 

beneficial. Maybe some type of proximity sensor with a warning sound 

would work as well.



Jerry

do not archive



Paul Besing wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Jerry, you are absolutely right about the GPS thing...stuff like that 

 will suck you in, and I've seen it as a CFII with people trying to get 

 things tuned, set, etc while taxiing to the runway. 

  

 First of all, this being the RV-List, I was thinking he was referring to 

 putting it in an RV, not something like the aircraft the ran into the RV 

 at oshkosh.

  

 Second, how many times have you heard of a large airplane taxiing into 

 another one like the accident this year?  Yes, there are ground 

 incursions, but this one was extremely rare.  Yes, this "gizmo" might 

 have prevented the accident, but in more ways than one could cause 

 another one if your attention wasn't divided properly.  I'm in the 

 business of flying aircraft where I have two forms of vision.  FLIR in 

 my right eye and unaided view in my left.  I have to divide my attention 

 all the time between the views.  I have hundreds of hours doing it, and 

 my device follows my head movement and is not a fixed platform.  I use 

 it while taxiing as well as flying.  Well, let me tell you this, it is 

 not easy. 

  

 Two problems here.  One is parallax.  The camera is mounted at a 

 different place than where you are sitting.  What it sees is from a 

 different angle and perspective than you are looking.  If you try to 

 empart that in a scan, your natural feel, even though you are only 

 taxiing, will be disrupted.  Second is fixation.  The untrainted pilot 

 with a "gizmo" like this will be distracted.  Maybe he'll be turning the 

 aircraft between some hangars, and while looking at his monitor, the 

 perception of his turning won't be great enough (the parallax thing) so 

 he turns more.  Looks outside and bang, he just hit another airplane or 

 hangar.

  

 Nevertheless, you can't fix one accident by employing non realistic 

 items like this, that could cause more.  Airplanes have been flying for 

 100 years without them, and this kind of accident is so very rare, that 

 I wouldn't change a thing about airplanes to prevent another one. 

  

 There are few fly ins each year.  There are fewer airports that have 

 this kind of congestion and chaos going on without some strict aircraft 

 control procedures.  It's unfortunate, and I'm sure that the EAA will 

 implement measures with their marshalls to prevent it.  But I'm sorry, 

 TV cameras in airplanes are NOT the solution.  Better ground collision 

 avoidance training (a hot topic with the FAA right now anyway) and sharp 

 pilots/ground crew/controllers are the best way to prevent accidents 

 like these.

  

 No more stuff needed in the cockpit I say.  I've already learned my 

 lesson about gadgets, I tell you.  I always revert back to the basics 

 when things don't go as planned, and ignore the gadgets and get back to 

 being a pilot.

  

 Paul Besing

 

 

 Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)verizon.net> wrote:

 

     

 

     Not true, you don't set there and stare at the "gizmo" it is part of an

     overall scan. I bet there is much more attention given inside the

     cockpit tuning and adjusting radios and GPS's than would be focused

     on a

     camera/monitor. I would much rather the plane behind me was staring

     at a

     forward looking camera/monitor than at the GPS or a map etc. It would

     really be nice to have a split screen looking forward and back at the

     same time.

 

     Jerry

     do not archive

 

 

 

     Jeff Point wrote:

 

      > 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

rv7(at)b4.ca
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:03 pm Post subject: Forward vision for tail wheel pilots

On 16:43 2006-12-01 Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)verizon.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 I just believe a simple system to see the blind spots would be

 beneficial. Maybe some type of proximity sensor with a warning sound

 would work as well.


	


What's wrong with S-turning on the taxiway in the first place?  Unless the

taxiway is so narrow that your wheels are each running on their respective

edges of the pavement, there's always room to S-turn.  And in an RV, even

an RV with a steerable tailwheel, it's soooo easy to do.



-Rob

jsflyrv(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:43 pm Post subject: Forward vision for tail wheel pilots

Fine, everybody S turn.    Close to 20 years  I have been flying with 

RV's, I see very few of them do S turns.

Also trying to be as understanding as possible here I don't understand 

how someone can let a large aircraft get so close behind them

as to chew up their aircraft but as we know it happens.

Jerry

do not arhcive

Rob Prior wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

On 16:43 2006-12-01 Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)verizon.net> wrote:

>

>I just believe a simple system to see the blind spots would be

>beneficial. Maybe some type of proximity sensor with a warning sound

>would work as well.

>    

>

What's wrong with S-turning on the taxiway in the first place?  Unless the

taxiway is so narrow that your wheels are each running on their respective

edges of the pavement, there's always room to S-turn.  And in an RV, even

an RV with a steerable tailwheel, it's soooo easy to do.

-Rob

pbesing(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:57 pm Post subject: Forward vision for tail wheel pilots

Sorry, but I just can't see it...especially in an RV.  The visibility is pretty darn good in any tailwheel RV.  The blind spot is very small actually.  Unlike alot of tailwheel airplanes, you can almsot see over the nose on a tailwheel RV.

   

  Paul Besing



Terry Watson <terry(at)tcwatson.com> wrote:

  [quote]      v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}    <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />    st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }                Think of it as a “front-view” mirror. You glance at it when you want to see if anything or anyone is in the blind spot. Just because the technology behind it is sophisticated doesn’t mean it has to be distracting. Don’t make it complicated. And yes, I was thinking about people putting it in their tailwheel RV’s. 

   

   But since I am building a nose-wheel airplane I don’t have a horse in this race. Hey, maybe I could use one to …. No, never mind!

   

  Terry

   

        

  From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Besing

Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 3:55 PM

To: <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />rv-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Forward vision for tail wheel pilots



   

    Jerry, you are absolutely right about the GPS thing...stuff like that will suck you in, and I've seen it as a CFII with people trying to get things tuned, set, etc while taxiing to the runway.  



     



    First of all, this being the RV-List, I was thinking he was referring to putting it in an RV, not something like the aircraft the ran into the RV at oshkosh.



     



    Second, how many times have you heard of a large airplane taxiing into another one like the accident this year?  Yes, there are ground incursions, but this one was extremely rare.  Yes, this "gizmo" might have prevented the accident, but in more ways than one could cause another one if your attention wasn't divided properly.  I'm in the business of flying aircraft where I have two forms of vision.  FLIR in my right eye and unaided view in my left.  I have to divide my attention all the time between the views.  I have hundreds of hours doing it, and my device follows my head movement and is not a fixed platform.  I use it while taxiing as well as flying.  Well, let me tell you this, it is not easy. 



     



    Two problems here.  One is parallax.  The camera is mounted at a different place than where you are sitting.  What it sees is from a different angle and perspective than you are looking.  If you try to empart that in a scan, your natural feel, even though you are only taxiing, will be disrupted.  Second is fixation.  The untrainted pilot with a "gizmo" like this will be distracted.  Maybe he'll be turning the aircraft between some hangars, and while looking at his monitor, the perception of his turning won't be great enough (the parallax thing) so he turns more.  Looks outside and bang, he just hit another airplane or hangar.



     



    Nevertheless, you can't fix one accident by employing non realistic items like this, that could cause more.  Airplanes have been flying for 100 years without them, and this kind of accident is so very rare, that I wouldn't change a thing about airplanes to prevent another one.  



     



    There are few fly ins each year.  There are fewer airports that have this kind of congestion and chaos going on without some strict aircraft control procedures.  It's unfortunate, and I'm sure that the EAA will implement measures with their marshalls to prevent it.  But I'm sorry, TV cameras in airplanes are NOT the  solution.  Better ground collision avoidance training (a hot topic with the FAA right now anyway) and sharp pilots/ground crew/controllers are the best way to prevent accidents like these.



     



    No more stuff needed in the cockpit I say.  I've already learned my lesson about gadgets, I tell you.  I always revert back to the basics when things don't go as planned, and ignore the gadgets and get back to being a pilot.



     



    Paul  Besing



    



Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)verizon.net> wrote:



  [quote]  --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer 



Not true, you don't set there and stare at the "gizmo" it is part of an

overall scan. I bet there is much more attention given inside the 

cockpit tuning and adjusting radios and GPS's than would be focused on a 

camera/monitor. I would  much rather the plane behind me was staring at a 

forward looking camera/monitor than at the GPS or a map etc. It would 

really be nice to have a split screen looking forward and back at the 

same time.



Jerry

do not archive



Jeff Point wrote:



[quote] --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point 

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phil(at)petrasoft.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:27 pm Post subject: Forward vision for tail wheel pilots

I agree.  I might be able to buy the argument for a camera, but not in an RV.  I can't imagine another airplane that I couldn't see from inside my RV-7.

Phil

On Dec 1, 2006, at 7:57 PM, Paul Besing wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Sorry, but I just can't see it...especially in an RV.  The visibility is pretty darn good in any tailwheel RV.  The blind spot is very small actually.  Unlike alot of tailwheel airplanes, you can almsot see over the nose on a tailwheel RV.

 

Paul Besing



Terry Watson <terry(at)tcwatson.com (terry(at)tcwatson.com)> wrote:

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		  Think of it as a “front-view” mirror. You glance at it when you want to see if anything or anyone is in the blind spot. Just because the technology behind it is sophisticated doesn’t mean it has to be distracting. Don’t make it complicated. And yes, I was thinking about people putting it in their tailwheel RV’s.

 

But since I am building a nose-wheel airplane I don’t have a horse in this race. Hey, maybe I could use one to …. No, never mind!

 

Terry

 



From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Paul BesingSent: Friday, December 01, 2006 3:55 PMTo: rv-list(at)matronics.com (rv-list(at)matronics.com)Subject: Re: Forward vision for tail wheel pilots



 

Jerry, you are absolutely right about the GPS thing...stuff like that will suck you in, and I've seen it as a CFII with people trying to get things tuned, set, etc while taxiing to the runway. 



 



First of all, this being the RV-List, I was thinking he was referring to putting it in an RV, not something like the aircraft the ran into the RV at oshkosh.



 



Second, how many times have you heard of a large airplane taxiing into another one like the accident this year?  Yes, there are ground incursions, but this one was extremely rare.  Yes, this "gizmo" might have prevented the accident, but in more ways than one could cause another one if your attention wasn't divided properly.  I'm in the business of flying aircraft where I have two forms of vision.  FLIR in my right eye and unaided view in my left.  I have to divide my attention all the time between the views.  I have hundreds of hours doing it, and my device follows my head movement and is not a fixed platform.  I use it while taxiing as well as flying.  Well, let me tell you this, it is not easy. 



 



Two problems here.  One is parallax.  The camera is mounted at a different place than where you are sitting.  What it sees is from a different angle and perspective than you are looking.  If you try to empart that in a scan, your natural feel, even though you are only taxiing, will be disrupted.  Second is fixation.  The untrainted pilot with a "gizmo" like this will be distracted.  Maybe he'll be turning the aircraft between some hangars, and while looking at his monitor, the perception of his turning won't be great enough (the parallax thing) so he turns more.  Looks outside and bang, he just hit another airplane or hangar.



 



Nevertheless, you can't fix one accident by employing non realistic items like this, that could cause more.  Airplanes have been flying for 100 years without them, and this kind of accident is so very rare, that I wouldn't change a thing about airplanes to prevent another one. 



 



There are few fly ins each year.  There are fewer airports that have this kind of congestion and chaos going on without some strict aircraft control procedures.  It's unfortunate, and I'm sure that the EAA will implement measures with their marshalls to prevent it.  But I'm sorry, TV cameras in airplanes are NOT the solution.  Better ground collision avoidance training (a hot topic with the FAA right now anyway) and sharp pilots/ground crew/controllers are the best way to prevent accidents like these.



 



No more stuff needed in the cockpit I say.  I've already learned my lesson about gadgets, I tell you.  I always revert back to the basics when things don't go as planned, and ignore the gadgets and get back to being a pilot.



 



Paul Besing



Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)verizon.net (jsflyrv(at)verizon.net)> wrote:



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		  --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer Not true, you don't set there and stare at the "gizmo" it is part of anoverall scan. I bet there is much more attention given inside the cockpit tuning and adjusting radios and GPS's than would be focused on a camera/monitor. I would much rather the plane behind me was staring at a forward looking camera/monitor than at the GPS or a map etc. It would really be nice to have a split screen looking forward and back at the same time.Jerrydo not archiveJeff Point wrote:> --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point

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