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Propeller Information...

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David.Lehman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 265
Location: "Lovely" Fresno CA

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:35 pm Post subject: Propeller Information...

I'm running a Tennessee 66x34 prop on my original Firestar with a 503DCDI...  It's like flying around in first gear...  I think that the 66" is OK, but I must need more bite (pitch)...  Anyone running something similar that can give me some pitch advice?... 

  

 Thanx...

  

 DVD

 

  [quote][b]

_________________
ô¿ô

"Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute."

--- George Bernard Shaw

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:17 pm Post subject: Propeller Information...

Yep. Replace it with a 66" Ivo 2 blade.

  

 Richard Pike

 MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

 dna

 [quote]   ---

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

David.Lehman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 265
Location: "Lovely" Fresno CA

Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:32 pm Post subject: Propeller Information...

Thanx Rev....



DVD



Do not archive



Sent from my SDA phone...



--

_________________
ô¿ô

"Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute."

--- George Bernard Shaw

possums(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:28 am Post subject: Propeller Information...

At 07:34 PM 12/16/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I'm running a Tennessee 66x34 prop on my original Firestar with a 

503DCDI...  It's like flying around in first gear...  I think that 

the 66" is OK, but I must need more bite (pitch)...  Anyone running 

something similar that can give me some pitch advice?...



Thanx...


	


Yes.... Abandon all hope, yearnings

  who enter here. This is no place for a hobbit.

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:22 pm Post subject: Propeller Information...

(pitch)...  Anyone running something

| similar that can give me some pitch advice?...

|

| Thanx...

|

| DVD



DVD:



Will your aircraft bump the redline, 6,500 rpm, WOT, straight and 

level flight?



It should to get optimum climb and cruise performance.



This is why a ground adjustable prop is so convenient.  One can dial 

their prop right into the engine and aircraft, just like propping a 

boat.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:26 pm Post subject: Propeller Information...

Yep. Replace it with a 66" Ivo 2 blade.



Richard Pike

Richard:



Excellent advice.



However, if DVD does not pitch it correctly, might as well keep flying 

the Tennessee Prop.



Bump the red line, WOT, straight and level fllight.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

d-m-hague(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 4:04 pm Post subject: Propeller Information...

All this talk of props... My Ultrastar has what I assume is the original 

2-blade wood prop on the Cuyuna engine... since one of the chief complaints 

about the US is the prop ground clearance, would I be better off with a 3 

blade prop of smaller diameter?



				-Dana

--

--

Shaw's principle:

  Build a machine that a fool can use, and only a fool will want to use it.

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 6:01 pm Post subject: Propeller Information...

If the prop is presently likely to hit the ground, then you would be better 

off with anything that is smaller diameter. I am presently using an Ivo 2 

blade 68" prop on my MKIII, but even when it had a 2 blade 64" Ivo, it still 

flew fine, just didn't accelerate or climb as well. Going to a bigger 

diameter prop really helps climb, diameter is not as important for cruise. 

If you can afford to give up a bit of climb, then the answer is probably 

yes.

Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

dna



---

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 6:30 pm Post subject: Propeller Information...

| If the prop is presently likely to hit the ground, then you would 

be better

| off with anything that is smaller diameter.



| Richard Pike

Richard/Dana/Gang:



The Ultrastar was/is a unique little bird.  Flies like a champion. 

Handles like a dream.  Slow flight is its forte.  Takes off and lands 

by its self, long as it is kept above the stall speed (on my 1984 

model would fly at 25 mph indicated, stall a needle width below 25).



Prop is not going to hit the ground.  Not unless one breaks a main 

landing gear.  Problem with prop/ground clearance is FOD.  Unless one 

flies off a manicured grass strip or pavement, the prop will catch 

Hell.  Jim Culver came up with a polyurethane leading edge that helped 

a great deal.  However, taller grass, weeds, sand and rocks still took 

its toll on the blades.



The perfect prop for the US was a Jim Culver 50X30.  An US with a 

Cuyuna ULII02 would just bump the redline at WOT straight and level 

flight.  That combo produced 85 mph.  Not bad for a little UL.



Personally, I do not think going to a smaller prop will help much when 

it comes to FOD and prop damage.  Most likely will degrade performance 

of a great combo.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

David.Lehman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 265
Location: "Lovely" Fresno CA

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 8:04 pm Post subject: Propeller Information...

Thanx Richard and John...

  

 I don't know what my WOT RPM is straight and level, but with the Tennessee it's 6800 just after breaking ground with a nose up attitude, tells me that I'm way under-pitched...

  

 Before it fell off, I had a Warp Drive, but I think I'll replace the Tennessee woody with an IVO...

  

 Maybe Santa has a spare on the sleigh, naw, probably not...

  

 Thanx again...

  

 DVD

  

 do not archive



 

 On 12/17/06, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote: [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com  (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)>

Yep. Replace it with a 66" Ivo 2 blade.



Richard Pike

Richard:



Excellent advice.



However, if DVD does not pitch it correctly, might as well keep flying

the Tennessee Prop. 



Bump the red line, WOT, straight and level fllight.



john h

mkIII



[b]

_________________
ô¿ô

"Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute."

--- George Bernard Shaw

Dave Bigelow

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 103
Location: Kamuela, Hawaii

Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:19 am Post subject: Re: Propeller Information...

David Lehman wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I'm running a Tennessee 66x34 prop on my original Firestar with a 503DCDI... It's like flying around in first gear... I think that the 66" is OK, but I must need more bite (pitch)... Anyone running something similar that can give me some pitch advice?... 	


I've used a Powerfin 66 inch two blade prop on my FS2 (503 DCDI) quite successfully.  I pitched it for 6300 RPM maximum static.  You will gain about 200 RPM at climb speed, and if you take the aircraft to red line airspeed, you will see 6600-6700 RPM maximum, all below the engine red line of 6800 RPM.



At density altitudes near 1,000 feet, I can throttle back to 4900 RPM and maintain about 45 mph IAS.  At 60 mph cruise, it takes 5,600 RPM to maintain.  An original FS is lighter, and should take less RPM for the same speeds.

_________________
Dave Bigelow
Kamuela, Hawaii
FS2, HKS 700E

worrybear(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:51 am Post subject: Propeller Information...

I agree with John,  Going to a smaller dia prop on the US would degrade

performance.  I have a 3 blade ultraprop on my US UL202, Can't fold the

wings with a 3 blade and the only advantage I see is a little less noise.

If you don't bend the gear the prop won't hit the ground.



Dan Walter

Palmyra, PA.



Do Not Archive

---

d-m-hague(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 4:26 am Post subject: Propeller Information...

At 06:51 AM 12/18/2006, DANIEL WALTER wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I agree with John,  Going to a smaller dia prop on the US would degrade

performance.  I have a 3 blade ultraprop on my US UL202, Can't fold the

wings with a 3 blade and the only advantage I see is a little less noise.

If you don't bend the gear the prop won't hit the ground.


	


Ah, you're right, I had forgotten about wing folding.  I was less concerned 

about the prop hitting the ground than grass cutting.  Our airport closes 

in two weeks, not sure what kind of field I'll be flying from next year.



                                 -Dana

--

--

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who endowed us with 

sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. -- Galileo 

Galilei

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 6:01 am Post subject: Propeller Information...

You will gain about 200 RPM at climb speed, and if you take the 

aircraft to red line airspeed, you will see 6600-6700 RPM maximum, all 

below the engine red line of 6800 RPM.

|

| Dave Bigelow



Morning Dave:



6,800 rpm is max for 5 minutes, similar to military power.  6,500 rpm 

is max continuous.  I prop for max continuous unless I have an in 

flight adjustable prop.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

tkrolfe(at)usadatanet.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 6:53 am Post subject: Propeller Information...

Richard Pike wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		              Yep. Replace it with a 66" Ivo 2 blade.

    

   Richard Pike

   MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

   dna

   

    	  Quote: 	
		  

	
 	
 Richard,

 

 Would you like to expand on that advice?  I have been flying in front of a Tennessee 66" x 30 wood prop on my FireFly with a 447 since it's birth in "97" and have found it to be the ideal prop in many ways!  I did alter the tips as I had posted before to reduce noise, but it didn't have an adverse effect on performance, just the opposite!  A friend of mine has a FireFly with an IVO which I borrowed for a short time, didn't find any improvement in performance at all.

 

 Terry  -  FireFly #95

     [quote][b]

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 6:54 am Post subject: Propeller Information...

There is also a side effect of propping for max continuous rather than max 

for 5 minutes rpm. In my experience, if you prop for 6800 rpm, the engine is 

a quite a bit underpropped and the EGT's tend to run high at cruise. But as 

you begin to crank in pitch for a lower max rpm, they will stabilize. That 

turns out in my case to be a max rpm of 6400 - 6450 at full throttle in 

level flight, which is within spitting range of the rule of thumb.



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

---

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:27 am Post subject: Propeller Information...

In my experience, if you prop for 6800 rpm, the engine is

| a quite a bit underpropped and the EGT's tend to run high at cruise. 

But as

| you begin to crank in pitch for a lower max rpm, they will 

stabilize. That

| turns out in my case to be a max rpm of 6400 - 6450 at full throttle 

in

| level flight, which is within spitting range of the rule of thumb.

|

| Richard Pike

Richard:



How many folks have you seen chase their tails trying to get their two 

strokes dialed in correctly:  changing jets and spark plug heat 

ranges?



Seems the engineers that make their living designing and setting up 

two strokes usually know what they are doing when it comes to jets and 

spark plugs.  If we prop to the engine and aircraft the EGT's will be 

in the green, normally, unless there are some really extreme temps we 

are attempting to fly in.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:09 am Post subject: Propeller Information...

I have seen way too many folks chasing their tails by changing jets and 

spark plug heat ranges when the real problem was having the engine 

incorrectly propped. I don't remember saying anything about changing jets or 

plugs, I run exactly the jets and plugs that Rotax calls for and encourage 

anyone else to do the same, because if your EGT or CHT numbers are too high 

or too low, or fluctuate, then you have either an engine problem or it is 

propped incorrectly, not jetted wrong.



If an engine is underpropped and over revs, the EGT's will be too high and 

probably fluctuate at different throttle settings. If it is overpropped and 

fails to reach proper RPM, the EGT's will be too low, the CHT's will 

probably be too high plus you will probably experience other problems. More 

details on prop loads and jetting here:



http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/pg11.htm



Maybe I am missing something, but I think that what I described in my 

earlier post was how to adjust the prop to the engine and the aircraft, and 

when you get it right, your EGT's will not fluctuate all over the place and 

you will get good performance. With stock jets and plugs.



If I adjust my prop to hit 6500-6600 rpm at full throttle in level flight, 

my EGT's will spike to 1150-1175 at cruise. With stock jets and plugs. And I 

will be running higher rpm's at cruise than necessary. Propped to reach 6450 

full throttle, level flight, gives me an EGT that stays between 1050-1100, 

and an engine that gives me excellent performance at all RPM's.



Will that work for everybody? Who knows? However, since adjusting the pitch 

on an Ivo takes all of about 20 seconds, and the next flight will show if 

the adjustment was a good idea or not, it seems to me kind of like feeding 

crackers to a dead man - it sure ain't gonna' hurt nothin'.



Merry Christmas and Tailwinds to you and yours,

Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

dna



---

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:42 am Post subject: Propeller Information...

| Maybe I am missing something, but I think that what I described in 

my

| earlier post was how to adjust the prop to the engine and the 

aircraft, and

| when you get it right, your EGT's will not fluctuate all over the 

place and

| you will get good performance. With stock jets and plugs.

 | Richard Pike

Hi Richard:



Was attempting to address those that may not be aware of proper method 

of setting up an engine, aircraft, and prop combo.  I know you know 

how to do it.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

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